Faith Alone, Equivalent to Nothing?

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Doxiemom said:
Do you not know that it is satan all along who planted those doubts, those fears? And do you not know that Jesus knows the works of the devil and how easily he manipulates? Satan, when he was beautiful and most mighty Lucifer, manipulated one-third of the angels to rebel with him against the Creator. All they knew was being with God in Heaven and yet Lucifer convinces them they can have it better!!!
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Doxie, in my professional experience, you’d be surprised at how many things people say that the devil made them do it. We have an international hunt looking for this devil in order to arrest him.

On a more serious note 😉

How can you refute both Scriptural Quotes from Jesus rebuking our faith not being strong enough? When the Lord rebukes it is not to plant doubt, but to correct. You must also remember that it is Him who will preside over the final judgement. In other words, it is Him who will declare for some to go to Hell, eternally. He is not only the Lamb of God, but He is also the Lion of Judah.

Having a strong Faith is absolutely necessary in order to develop a strong relationship with the Lord. But it is **NEVER **alone. The devil wants you to believe that it is alone, in order that you may not have good works that go along with that faith. It makes his work a lot easier because you say that you have faith but have no works to show for. You see, when we don’t perform good works we give the devil a bigger playground, while when we strive in doing the good works our Savior demands of us, we make that playground smaller.

Be careful what you attribute to the devil, because if what you claim is contrary to Scriptures and to the Traditions and the Teachings of Christ’s Church, then you must wonder where what you say is coming from.

*Matthew 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.

8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11 “Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Salt and Light

13 “You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trodden under foot by men.

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid. 15 Nor do men light a lamp and put it under a bushel, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men,** that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven**.*

Faith without works is a faith without salt, it lost its flavor.
 
Doxiemom said:
Repentence is not of a physical nature. Grace, freely asked for, is freely given. It is a gift from God.

Kindly do not confuse this with physical acts.
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You’re kidding, right? Repentance by it’s very nature is a physical act because it’s something one has to consciously do. I said nothing of grace, which I agree is freely given. Please explain to me how one repents in a non-physical way.
 
Calm down.

First, I never said that anything concerning catholic teachings or catholic rituals and sacraments were of the devil. I have a great respect for the catholic church.

What I am saying is that repentence requires an act of the will, which is not physical in nature. You make a decision to turn away from your sin and humble yourself to God’s Will vs your own will. Follow your church teachings? Fantastic. Follow the holy Spirit? Fantastic.

I suppose you can think of this as physical if you are counting the thoughts of your mind as physical but I am referring to that which cannot be sensed by the physical. Perhaps I am not explaining it enough but you will have to take my rather poor attempts.

What I will say is I meant that there is nothing physical that needs to be done after your act of repentence. Or before. Doing such things may indeed please God. Some of the more extreme things that would cause pain to your body, well, that is a something that will have to between you and God when you meet Him Face to face. That is why I said certain acts, certain “things” may be helpful, but not necessary.

Temptation was planted in our world by the act of seduction of Eve by Satan. She had a choice, did she not? And Adam, he fell right into it and then blamed her!!!He sinned. But the offer of sin was from Satan, as all sin is of the original sin. But we choose it. Or deny it. And face the results. Their remorse was , as I said, not a physical thing that can be touched. It was thought.

Being a faithful Christian, good works should flow naturally. It is the outward physical signs that anyone can see. You can please God but you cannot earn your way into Heaven. It is okay to disagree with me. I do not encourage anyone to stray from their doctrine of their church.

But faith, for this person, is such a thing of such spiritual beauty, it is of itself sufficient to be accepted into the Kingdom of heaven. All who believe unto Him shall have eternal life.

I am sorry if I offended anyone. But this is the non-Catholic region. So I gave a non-Catholic answer. Kindly do not offend me.
 
Azygos said:
Faith alone is equivalent to Spiritual alone. We don’t live solely in a Spiritual Reality, our Reality is Spiritual and Physical. If Faith alone is sufficient then why must we do the Physical act of Praying or Repenting? Faith alone drawn down to its natural conclusion simply means No Physical acts, No Prayer, No Repentance, are needed for Salvation. Which also means no Physical acts can cause one to lose salvation, including mass murder. Faith alone is essentially nothing, without meaning, Void of Life or Dead. For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead (James 2:26).

Is Faith Alone, Equivalent to Nothing? :whacky:
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Your first premise that we live in a spiritual reality is wrong. We are veiled from the spiritual world. So, we can not have spiritual alone within the physical reality we live in. This is not to say that God does not lift the spiritual veil occasionally to speak nor is it to say that the spiritual world does not live within the physical world. It is to say that we do not live in the spiritual world.
We must do the physical act of repenting because, God has the right to our repentance. God is our Creator. God is our Father. God has all rights to our souls and only we ourselves may refuse Him. Jesus Christ erases our sin, the black marks on our souls, through our sorrowful repentance so, we may enter directly into heaven.
Faith in God is the greatest treasure we can possess. Faith in God leads us to love. This would be impossible not to happen because God is Love. Love leads us into good works for the sake of our neighbor because, love is an action which not only must be but, has to be conveyed if it truly is love.
So faith in God with out action (works) is dead because, it’s not really faith in God just merely an acknowledgement of God disguised as faith.
 
Doxiemom said:
We are absolutely judged by our actions and our inactions. You may call it purgatory, But I will go by what Scripture calls it- the Judgement seat of Christ. Our sins are forgiven, buried in the Sea of Forgetfullness, never to be remember no more. However, our lives…what we became, what we could have been, the effects of our being, the untold waves we caused …all will be purified by fire. Not our soul, our spirit, but by representative things such as wood, paper, straw, gold, silver, precious stones. The burnable disappears up in smoke, but the rest made pure.

This does not take place here in our physical world, but in the afterlife.
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What is the above except a wonderful explication of what happens in purgatory!!
 
PRmerger said:
What is the above except a wonderful explication of what happens in purgatory!!
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It is appointed unto man once to die, then the Judgement.

It is under the loving gaze of Jesus that all that uselessness is purged by fire. And that which is valuable is made as pure as Him.

I have things that I have done within my life that I have no idea it offended a person. Also, my life has affected persons in positive ways that will surprise me. There will have been goals that I never achieved that I could have attained but didn’t. Sins commited unawares. I do not desire to be mostly uselessness. I suppose that is where the physical is most helpful!!!

But faith in Jesus Christ, our Hope, our Salvation by the Cross, brings peace that all will be well.
 
Doxiemom said:
It is appointed unto man once to die, then the Judgement.

It is under the loving gaze of Jesus that all that uselessness is purged by fire. And that which is valuable is made as pure as Him.

I have things that I have done within my life that I have no idea it offended a person. Also, my life has affected persons in positive ways that will surprise me. There will have been goals that I never achieved that I could have attained but didn’t. Sins commited unawares. I do not desire to be mostly uselessness. I suppose that is where the physical is most helpful!!!

But faith in Jesus Christ, our Hope, our Salvation by the Cross, brings peace that all will be well.
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Amen!!

This is, again, the most Catholic explanation of purgatory! :bowdown:
 
JonNC said:
Hey PR,
Is it ok then, if we explain Purgatory in this way, and ignore/avoid any mention of an intermediate state/place?

Jon
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If you want to say that this purgation occurs “in the twinkling of an eye” then that ought to certainly get a 👍 from Catholics!
 
PRmerger said:
If you want to say that this purgation occurs “in the twinkling of an eye” then that ought to certainly get a 👍 from Catholics!
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That seems to be the thought in the Lutheran Catholic dialogue. The Lutheran reformers biggest complaints were what they considered the abuses that grew up around the doctrine, along with what they considered a lack of scriptural evidence of an intermediate state/place.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/upload/The-Hope-of-Eternal-Life1.pdf

Jon
 
JonNC said:
That seems to be the thought in the Lutheran Catholic dialogue. The Lutheran reformers biggest complaints were what they considered the abuses that grew up around the doctrine, along with what they considered a lack of scriptural evidence of an intermediate state/place.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/upload/The-Hope-of-Eternal-Life1.pdf

Jon
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Many, even some Catholics, consider Purgatory to be a second chance. Sadly they are wrong. You either have faith in Christ and Church or you do not. No get out of hell free cards to pick from. You cannot roll three times and get out lol.
 
JonNC said:
That seems to be the thought in the Lutheran Catholic dialogue. The Lutheran reformers biggest complaints were what they considered the abuses that grew up around the doctrine, along with what they considered a lack of scriptural evidence of an intermediate state/place.

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/upload/The-Hope-of-Eternal-Life1.pdf

Jon
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On condemnation of abuses, we Catholics unite with the Lutheran reformers! 👍

Curious–what other Lutheran reformers are you thinking of, besides Martin Luther?
 
PRmerger said:
On condemnation of abuses, we Catholics unite with the Lutheran reformers! 👍

Curious–what other Lutheran reformers are you thinking of, besides Martin Luther?
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Oh, there were a number, though obviously not with the high profile of Luther and even Melanchthon… Justus Jonas comes to mind, as does Osiander. There were a number involved in Luther’s OT translation, too. I would also include the second generation folks, most notably Martin Chemnitz.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
That seems to be the thought in the Lutheran Catholic dialogue. The Lutheran reformers biggest complaints were what they considered the abuses that grew up around the doctrine, along with what they considered a lack of scriptural evidence of an intermediate state/place.

Jon
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Well Jon, my friend, we lack scriptural evidence of scriptures since we don’t have the originals to compare to. Scriptures are evidential by the Church’s witness :D, if we don’t trust the witness our world comes crumbling down :D.

Couldn’t pass it up :o
 
Isaiah45_9 said:
Well Jon, my friend,** we lack scriptural evidence of scriptures since we don’t have the originals to compare to. **Scriptures are evidential by the Church’s witness :D, if we don’t trust the witness our world comes crumbling down :D.

Couldn’t pass it up :o
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Wait! Are you saying we no longer have all of the original 1611 KJV’s? :eek: 😃

Jon
 
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