Faith Alone Is Enough to Save us?? Nu-Uh!...

[Brooke]

i would like to know who out there believes this?? and why? i would like somebody to explain why people think this?? thx! =]

have a good one!

p.s. “14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” James 2:14-17

 

[promethius]

i would like to know who out there believes this?? and why? i would like somebody to explain why people think this?? thx! =]

have a good one!

p.s. “14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” James 2:14-17

saved by faith alone is a blasphemous man-made tradition anyway. The bible says we are saved by GRACE (not faith) and that that grace is open to us through our faith which is made living (capable of carrying grace) by the good works of God, which were created for and ordained to do (rather than by legalistic works of the old testament). All of that is contained in Eph 2:8-10, but somehow that 10th verse gets left out and people ignore the part about grace too…

Generally, however, I have found that most people who CLAIM they believe in sola fide are actually proponents of sola venia (which is what the catholic church teaches) with minor modifications in that they think that good works naturally come from faith whereas the church teaches that good works are an act of free will. This comes from the basic difference in understanding of protestants vs catholics when it comes to the state of mankind (Catholics believe we have a tainted will that is still capable of desiring grace, protestants believe in total corruption of the nature)

 

[Brooke]

saved by faith alone is a blasphemous man-made tradition anyway. The bible says we are saved by GRACE (not faith) and that that grace is open to us through our faith which is made living (capable of carrying grace) by the good works of God, which were created for and ordained to do (rather than by legalistic works of the old testament). All of that is contained in Eph 2:8-10, but somehow that 10th verse gets left out and people ignore the part about grace too…

Generally, however, I have found that most people who CLAIM they believe in sola fide are actually proponents of sola venia (which is what the catholic church teaches) with minor modifications in that they think that good works naturally come from faith whereas the church teaches that good works are an act of free will. This comes from the basic difference in understanding of protestants vs catholics when it comes to the state of mankind (Catholics believe we have a tainted will that is still capable of desiring grace, protestants believe in total corruption of the nature)

gets left out? what do you mean? from the bible?? how is that possible? n ur not supposed to ignore things from the bible just because you might not like what it says… right?

blessings

 

[promethius]

gets left out? what do you mean? from the bible?? how is that possible? n ur not supposed to ignore things from the bible just because you might not like what it says… right?

By “gets left out” I was refering to the fact that most people quoting in support of sola fide tend to quote only eph 2:8-9 because verse 10 does not support sola fide at all. That’s not to say that it is left out of their bibles, just that they don’t tend to quote it (and possibly don’t even get around to reading it)

But yes, I agree that people shouldn’t ignore things in order to make it say what they like.

 

[VARC]

i would like to know who out there believes this?? and why? i would like somebody to explain why people think this?? thx! =]

have a good one!

p.s. “14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” James 2:14-17

Your church already conceded that justification by faith alone is a legitimate biblical teaching. Go read the Joint Declaration on Justification between the Vatican and the Lutherans.

 

[Brooke]

By “gets left out” I was refering to the fact that most people quoting in support of sola fide tend to quote only eph 2:8-9 because verse 10 does not support sola fide at all. That’s not to say that it is left out of their bibles, just that they don’t tend to quote it (and possibly don’t even get around to reading it)

But yes, I agree that people shouldn’t ignore things in order to make it say what they like.

o ok. thank you for explaining that… so then y do so many believe in sola fide?? agh! its absurd…

 

[promethius]

Your church already conceded that justification by faith alone is a legitimate biblical teaching. Go read the Joint Declaration on Justification between the Vatican and the Lutherans.

Ahem… I think YOU should reread it. It states:
“5.The present Joint Declaration has this intention: namely, to show that on the basis of their dialogue the subscribing Lutheran churches and the Roman Catholic Church[9] are now able to articulate a common understanding of our justification by God’s grace through faith in Christ.”

As said, the position of the catholic church as well as most protestant churches is that we are saved by grace (not faith or works). As i already intimated, even most protestant church members who SAY they believe in sola fide will admit that they are actually proponents of sola venia when they are told what the difference between the two is. There are actually relatively few supporters of a true sola fide doctrine (since said doctrine is not biblical)

 

[promethius]

o ok. thank you for explaining that… so then y do so many believe in sola fide?? agh! its absurd…

I don’t think that many really believe in sola fide. I think it’s more like Catholics of the Latin Rite who call themselves Roman Catholics… despite the fact that it’s a misnomer, it’s still a convenient term to use. In the same way, Sola Fide is a convenient and widely recognized way of saying “not by works.” Even though it is incorrect and just as unbiblical as a justified by works doctrine would be, people use the term for it’s large recognition. I honestly believe most protestants are actually thinking of sola venia and that there are few sola fide adherents.

 

[Brooke]

I don’t think that many really believe in sola fide. I think it’s more like Catholics of the Latin Rite who call themselves Roman Catholics… despite the fact that it’s a misnomer, it’s still a convenient term to use. In the same way, Sola Fide is a convenient and widely recognized way of saying “not by works.” Even though it is incorrect and just as unbiblical as a justified by works doctrine would be, people use the term for it’s large recognition. I honestly believe most protestants are actually thinking of sola venia and that there are few sola fide adherents.

sola venia? i dont believe i have heard of that… care to elaborate?

blessings

 

[Louie1983]

Ahem… I think YOU should reread it. It states:
“5.The present Joint Declaration has this intention: namely, to show that on the basis of their dialogue the subscribing Lutheran churches and the Roman Catholic Church[9] are now able to articulate a common understanding of our justification by God’s grace through faith in Christ.”

As said, the position of the catholic church as well as most protestant churches is that we are saved by grace (not faith or works). As i already intimated, even most protestant church members who SAY they believe in sola fide will admit that they are actually proponents of sola venia when they are told what the difference between the two is. There are actually relatively few supporters of a true sola fide doctrine (since said doctrine is not biblical)

Nice!

 

[Louie1983]

i would like to know who out there believes this?? and why? i would like somebody to explain why people think this?? thx! =]

have a good one!

p.s. “14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” James 2:14-17

A lot of the non-catholic denominations have this teaching because they literally believe that when jesus gave the authority he gave it to everyone and not to peter and the disciples alone, and they cannot accept the authority of the holy father. They read the bible and believe that the holy spirit is guiding them on the correct path.

This presents a dilemma unfortunately for them, Because there are thousands of different christian denominations that teach different doctrine i.e abortion, women being ordained, contraception, homosexuality etc. So if they are all claim to be inspired by the holy spirit then how come the different teachings? can the holy spirit be wrong? or contradict himself? Ofcourse not, and this is the problem that people with this belief in sola fide have!

The catholic church can absolutely prove without a shadow of a doubt that 1) it has the true apostolic succession 2) it has never changed any of it’s teachings to suit the world or get with the times. God’s law is eternal and the catholic church has been faithfull to this. 3) there are literally hundreds of quotes from early church fathers that prove the primacy of peter (and his successors) as head of the church militant.

 

[promethius]

sola venia? i dont believe i have heard of that… care to elaborate?

blessings

Sola Venia is latin for (if I did my translation correctly) “Grace Alone.” As noted in the joint declaration on justification, Catholics and the bulk of protestants actually agree that it is by God’s Grace that we are saved, as we are unworthy in and of ourselves of meriting salvation (either by faith or by works, they are not enough). Rather faith is the conduit by which Grace enters our lives, and holy lifestyle is the means by which we grow our faith into a strong living body.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

i would like to know who out there believes this?? and why? i would like somebody to explain why people think this?? thx! =]

have a good one!

p.s. “14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” James 2:14-17

St Peter walked a few steps on water before sinking - and Jesus criticised him for not having a enough faith.

We are criticised by Jesus for not being able to move mountains with our faith - yet we only need enough faith as big as a mustard seed.

So, I don’t believe in faith-alone, unless the Protestants are willing to proclaim that even the most smallest amount of faith will suffice.

 

[SyCarl]

Sola Venia is latin for (if I did my translation correctly) “Grace Alone.” As noted in the joint declaration on justification, Catholics and the bulk of protestants actually agree that it is by God’s Grace that we are saved, as we are unworthy in and of ourselves of meriting salvation (either by faith or by works, they are not enough). Rather faith is the conduit by which Grace enters our lives, and holy lifestyle is the means by which we grow our faith into a strong living body.

I believe it should be sola gratia, which was one of the 5 solas of the reformation.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Any thread that contains the colloquialism “nuh-uh!” scares me already! lol

What’s next? “You believe in sola scriptura! Oh no you dih-ihnt!”

or

“Sanctification leads to justification, true dat, true dat!”

 

[promethius]

I believe it should be sola gratia, which was one of the 5 solas of the reformation.

I’m confused. They both mean grace. Funny for being a catholic that latin is not my strongest of dead languages

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

i would like to know who out there believes this?? and why? i would like somebody to explain why people think this?? thx! =]

have a good one!

p.s. “14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.” James 2:14-17

It’s perfectly true - it can be taken in a bad sense, but need not be. If people are hypnotised by James 2.14-17, this is difficult to “get across”. Which is sad. Yet the same is true of Catholic doctrines: they can easily be taken in a sense that does not do justice to what they mean.​

If faith is alone, because it contains all other elements in the Christian life, what is the problem with “faith alone” ? Faith is not one element in this life; it is one so irreplaceable, that without it there is no Christian life at all. It is the environment, the vital atmosphere, of life in Christ; & because it contains & makes possible all these other things, it is in that sense, alone. Take away justifying faith, and all the other things are so much dead lumber. Let this faith flourish - & all things without exception become significant for God. Which is of great practical importance, because it means that the Christian, any Christian, is able to do all things for & in God, & can thereby “[redeem] the time”, as the Apostle exhorts his hearers to do.

I believe this doctrine, in that sense - if I didn’t, I would probably despair. In fact, there is no “probably”.

 

[Eleve]

Any thread that contains the colloquialism “nuh-uh!” scares me already! lol

What’s next? “You believe in sola scriptura! Oh no you dih-ihnt!”

or

“Sanctification leads to justification, true dat, true dat!”

“Nuh-uh” is immaturity. Ebonics is a dialect. One is not a “next step” from the other.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Sola Venia is latin for (if I did my translation correctly) “Grace Alone.”

Venia is “pardon”; the Latin for “grace” is gratia. Salvation solà gratià - or gratià solà, which brings out the emphasis better perhaps - is much more explicit than what has just been mentioned: for how could there be salvation without pardon ? These are different aspects of the economy of salvation through Christ, & must not be confused or diluted or identified. Any more than grace, pardon or faith should be.​

As noted in the joint declaration on justification, Catholics and the bulk of protestants actually agree that it is by God’s Grace that we are saved, as we are unworthy in and of ourselves of meriting salvation (either by faith or by works, they are not enough). Rather faith is the conduit by which Grace enters our lives, and holy lifestyle is the means by which we grow our faith into a strong living body.

Insistence that faith is alone, has the advantage of ruling out any recourse to a doctrine of salvation through or by good works or by any kind of merit. Good works before justification are absolutely worthless as a foundation for justification - good works after justification, are valueless for justification, because there is no justification to be earned; it can come only as a totally free gift of God, & has been given already: otherwise the justified sinner would not be a Christian at all, but only a sinner outside Christ.​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I believe it should be sola gratia, which was one of the 5 solas of the reformation.

- one smiley for each ​