Faith Alone made the news

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All Christians --Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox-- agree that humans can only be saved by God the Father in Jesus Christ by the gracious power of the Holy Spirit. Human persons can only be saved by grace, and they can only be saved in Jesus Christ and that there is no other way.

Since the Reformation, Protestants have used the phrase “justification by faith alone.” What does it mean? Do Catholics believe in justification by faith alone?

Catholics believe there are many problems with claiming people are “justified by faith alone.” Perhaps the biggest is the fact that the formula does not actually appear in scripture, except in one verse which says people are “not justified by faith alone” (James 2:24). Another problem with the formula is that different Protestants mean different things by it. For Luther, the phrase meant only our faith in Christ, and faith by itself, justifies, but not because it is a work (i.e. Luther’s version of “sola fide” essentially says we are ‘‘justified by our belief alone’’). But for Calvin, it meant something different: that people are only justified through faith, but not a faith that is alone; only if a man has the faith given by God can he be justified. So Protestants don’t really agree about the meaning of “justification by faith alone,” even though almost all of them use the phrase.

And Catholics? Catholics can and do agree with the “justification by faith alone” formula according to the Calvinist meaning above. The just shall live by faith; without faith it is impossible to please God. Personal faith is necessary for salvation. It is only the Lutheran usage which may cause problems.

From en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justification_%28theology%29

Catholics aren’t about to get dragged into saying that they believe in sola fide when protestants cannot even agree on what it is – it is just a phrase which unites protestantism, that’s all.
 
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littlesheep:
Ahem – I Invite my RCC friends to read some news out of Rome. These were just pointed out to me.

catholic.org/international/internationa l_story.php?id=18021

thesoutherncross.co.za/features/cantala messa.htm

cantalamessa.org/en/2005Avvento3.htm

Maybe there is change in the wind.

And I have never heard the story about the Shepards before, That is a wonderful little story
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Just another way of trying to prove the CC is wrong.:rolleyes:
 
littlesheep said:
http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=31&catname=15

I realize that these guys are outside of your communion. I also realize that these guys don’t speak for Rome since Vatican II. But their critique of the JDDJ in light of the Council of Trent is what my understanding of what the RCC teaches in regards to Justification.

And the cannons of the Council of Trent has not been repealed or set aside or however it is done. They are STILL the official teaching of Rome “as far as I know”

So which is it? Either Faith Alone as understood by the Lutherans or Trent or is there some new definition that is forming but hasn’t been canonized yet?
I’m trying to nail you down because either we really have some disagreements, or we are talking past each other and just calling each other names because its fun.
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The Traditionalists, quite ironically, like many Protestants who have an axe to grind against the Church, often take things out of context.

The truth is that what the Church agreed to in the JDDJ does not fall under the anathemas of the Council of Trent. Itsjustdave1988 covered this extensively over here. The problem, is, as always, that people look at things superficially and allow code words to rule the day. “Faith alone,” as a doctrine of a certain type meaning a specific thing (as defined in Trent) is anathema, but that doesn’t mean that if you say, “Faith alone,” and mean something distinctly different from what Trent anathametized that you also fall under the anathema.

Dave notes:
It seems that not just any sort of assertion that has the phrase “faith alone” in it is anathema, but Trent is condemning a rather specific “faith alone” doctrine. The specific faith alone doctrine condemned is one that asserted, "nothing else is required to cooperate in the attainment of the grace of justification
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and it is in no way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will.

Asserted positively, Catholic theology insists: “the sinner can and must prepare himself by the help of actual grace for the reception of the grace by which he is justified.” (Dr. Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, p. 252), and “***Besides faith, further acts of disposition must be present. [eg. charity, hope]” ***(Ott, pg. 253).

As such, Trent condemns any understanding of the “faith alone” doctrine which asserts that a merely fiduciary faith apart from hope or love is the sole cause of justification, and that cooperation with antecedent actual grace is not required for justification.

In otherwords, faith is not a justifying faith according to Catholic theology if it is understood to be apart from charity, said to have been formed by charity. Such an unformed faith was called by Catholic Scholastics: fides informis. The Scholastics taught that fides informis alone was insufficient for justification. Moreover, the Scholastics taught that we are justified by fides formata, or faith formed by charity.

Martin Luther rejected the Catholic doctrine of justification by faith formed by charity. Observe,
[Catholics] say that we must believe in Christ and that faith is the foundation of salvation, but they say that this faith does not justify unless it is “formed by love.” This is not the truth of the Gospel; it is a falsehood and pretense … For faith that takes hold of Christ, the Son of God, and is adorned by Him is the faith that justifies, not a faith that includes love. … we refuse to concede … that faith formed by love justifies
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. (LW 26, 88-90, emphasis added)

Let me take a moment to do this :eek: and :rolleyes: at what Martin Luther asserted above. I don’t get how anybody fell for this doctrine, as it seems he is saying that faith apart from love is justifying faith. This is astonishing, since St. Paul teaches that faith apart from love is … nothing.
i.e., Trent anathematized a very narrow portion of ‘faith alone,’ and the position adopted in the JDDJ does not adopt the anathematized portion.
 
This is the rest of Dave’s initial response. Forgive me Dave for quoting it all, but I don’t want to weaken your argument by only presenting half of it, and perhaps the extra information may also be pertinent.
That was then. What has changed? Well, Luther’s works are so many and varied (and in my opinion, often inconsistent among themselves), that scholars draw many variant conclusions as to what Luther *really *
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taught. Many Lutherans today maintain a view of *sola fide *that is not incompatible with canon 9 of the Council of Trent cited above.

According to the Lutheran understanding as described in the Joint Declaration on Justification,
God himself effects faith as he brings forth such trust by his creative word. (26)
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God certainly does bring forth trust by his creative word. While Lutherans may not use the same terminology, Catholics call this the help of antecedent “actual grace” which prepares the sinner for faith. For example, when God told Cain that sin was crouching at his door, and that he needed to master sin, this was “actual grace.” God graciously prompts us with “actual grace” so that we may will to turn toward Him rather than toward sin. God would not have told Cain to master sin if it were impossible for Cain to do so. God brought forth his word to Cain, but Cain chose to reject it.

Furthermore, the Lutheran understanding as described in the Joint Declaration on Justification states:
When persons come by faith to share in Christ … the Holy Spirit effects in them an active love. (22)
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[They] place their trust in God’s gracious promise by justifying faith, which includes hope in God and love for him. (25)

The Lutheran understanding affirms that justifying faith includes the theological virtues of hope and love. So when they say “justified by faith alone” in this Joint Declaration, in Catholic terminology, they are affirming “justification by faith, hope, and charity alone,” which is a theology which is not anathama.

In summary, if the particular “faith alone” doctrine is understood to be without antecedent “actual grace” and/or without repentence or conversion formed by charity, then it is anathema according to Trent. This would be sola fide informis. However, if by *sola fide, *one does not deny antecedent “actual grace” and intends *sola fide formata, *thereby includes hope and love, then this can be reconciled with Catholic theology.

See also *Justification by Faith Alone, *by James Akin, http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/faith_al.htm
 
littlesheep,

Can you tell us something, are you part of the Lutheran Church with belongs to the Lutheran World Federation (LWF), or are you part of the Lutheran Church who reject them? Who speaks for Lutherans?

You might want to read the entire document of the Joint Declaration on Justification by the Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation, especially this part…
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                          "***Where, however, Lutheran teaching construes ... that the person's willing acceptance of God's grace - which is itself a gift of God - has no essential role in justification, then the Tridentine canons 4, 5, 6 and 9 still constitute a notable doctrinal difference on justification***" (PCPCU 22).
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It says right in the document that the canons of Trent are still in force for Lutherans who still teach contrary to those canons, for example, that a “person’s willing acceptance of God’s grace” is not essential for justification.

We haven’t changed our minds. But it appears that some but not all Lutherans have. Good for you guys.👍 I just wish someone COULD speak for all Lutherans, that would actually be a blessing.
 
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