Faith Alone

[BernadetteM]

While scanning an Anglican/Episcopal website I noticed an article that “Sola Fide” or Justification by Faith Alone is the true Biblical and Patristic truth.

It also mentioned that Martin Luther brought this truth back to the church after “men” incorrectly changed the meaning. I guess it meant that Faith without Works is Dead is no longer a valid belief.

All the comments were very positive about the thread.

Yes it is only through the grace of God that we are drawn to faith, however, am I wrong to believe that with this grace of faith, works will follow and if not then we don’t really have true faith.

If this article is what many Episcopalians now believe then I would assume they have no claim to being catholic as they seem to insist.

Any thoughts on this subject as I am a bit confused. This sounds very protestant to me or am I wrong.

Yours In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[PaulfromIowa]

If you have been following the Anglican/Episcopal churches, you might agree that their faith is fading and their works are horrific.

On a more serious note, we should be very careful about reading Protestant writings. Some are aware that schism is a very grave sin, so they feel constantly compelled to come up with reasons for their continuing schism.

 

[Dave_B]

If you have been following the Anglican/Episcopal churches, you might agree that their works are horrific and their faith is fading.

What are the works horrific works? That they are considering women bishops?

I agree the Anglican church is in decline. I think that has more to do with the general decline in Christianity and rise in new Atheism in the West.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

The US Episcopal Church fully embraces the abortion of children and homosexual activity and “marriage,” among other things. I am sorry if you are an Anglican Christian and my remark seemed unkind. I am aware that there are Anglicans/Episcopals still fighting for the Gospel truth.

 

[JonNC]

While scanning an Anglican/Episcopal website I noticed an article that “Sola Fide” or Justification by Faith Alone is the true Biblical and Patristic truth.

It also mentioned that Martin Luther brought this truth back to the church after “men” incorrectly changed the meaning. I guess it meant that Faith without Works is Dead is no longer a valid belief.

All the comments were very positive about the thread.

Yes it is only through the grace of God that we are drawn to faith, however, am I wrong to believe that with this grace of faith, works will follow and if not then we don’t really have true faith.

If this article is what many Episcopalians now believe then I would assume they have no claim to being catholic as they seem to insist.

Any thoughts on this subject as I am a bit confused. This sounds very protestant to me or am I wrong.

Yours In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Sola fide in no way means or implies that “faith without works is dead” is an invalid belief.

Jon

 

[Dave_B]

The US Episcopal Church fully embraces the abortion of children and homosexual activity and “marriage,” among other things. I am sorry if you are an Anglican Christian and my remark seemed unkind. I am aware that there are Anglicans/Episcopals still fighting for the Gospel truth.

I wouldnt say they “fully embrace” these things. But think you could be right about the anglican church leadership at the very top.

 

[aidanbradypop]

The US Episcopal Church fully embraces the abortion of children and homosexual activity and “marriage,” among other things. I am sorry if you are an Anglican Christian and my remark seemed unkind. I am aware that there are Anglicans/Episcopals still fighting for the Gospel truth.

Hello fellow from the Midwest! I have never heard a parish priest embrace abortion at any level. I fell this may be an error on your part. Homosexual activity is embraced by some and not by others. It all depends on the parish.

Sola fide in no way means or implies that “faith without works is dead” is an invalid belief.

Jon

Thanks Jon!

Faith in Christ brings about life. We should also live out that faith as Christ commanded us to do. Sola seems to send some people into chaos lol

 

[ClearWater]

While scanning an Anglican/Episcopal website I noticed an article that “Sola Fide” or Justification by Faith Alone is the true Biblical and Patristic truth.

It also mentioned that Martin Luther brought this truth back to the church after “men” incorrectly changed the meaning. I guess it meant that Faith without Works is Dead is no longer a valid belief.

All the comments were very positive about the thread.

Yes it is only through the grace of God that we are drawn to faith, however, am I wrong to believe that with this grace of faith, works will follow and if not then we don’t really have true faith.

If this article is what many Episcopalians now believe then I would assume they have no claim to being catholic as they seem to insist.

Any thoughts on this subject as I am a bit confused. This sounds very protestant to me or am I wrong.

Yours In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

As a Catholic, I don’t accept Sola Fide (only by faith). Likewise, I don’t accept any of the 5 solas.

Only by Faith
Only by Grace
Only by Scripture
Only by Christ
Glory to God, Alone

Do I object to faith? No. Do I object to grace? No. Do I object to the use of scripture? No. Do I object to Christ? No. Do I object to the glory of God? No.

With the 5 solae, what I, and we Catholics, object to is the use of the word, “ONLY”.

Can you get to God through faith, grace, and scripture? Absolutely.

Is it by faith, ONLY? No, because obviously, you just said you can also get there by grace and scripture. Also, there’s baptism, good works.

There are 5 onlys in the Protestant faith. First of all, how can you have 5 onlys?

So, is it faith ALONE? Well, in Matthew 25:31-46, good works are necessary. In John 6:48-58, the Eucharist is necessary for eternal life. Acts 15:11, we are saved by grace. In 1 Corinthians 13:13, it says love is actually greater than faith. In 1 Peter 3:21, we are told that baptism saves us.

As to the comment on Episcopalians having no claim to being Catholic, I didn’t understand what your meant by that.

 

[ClearWater]

I wouldnt say they “fully embrace” these things. But think you could be right about the anglican church leadership at the very top.

I wouldn’t want to belong to a Church, whose leadership at the top, favored abortion or homosexuality. The Bible tells us they are wrong.

 

[ClearWater]

What are the works horrific works? That they are considering women bishops?

I agree the Anglican church is in decline. I think that has more to do with the general decline in Christianity and rise in new Atheism in the West.

I know Christ didn’t have any women bishops, and I know that’s been at least one of the reasons Catholics haven’t.

 

[Lasting_faith]

We have our faith and a Church that teach us how to practice it. Yet, we must have a broad and understanding mind. All Churches claim to be the “right one” and they have the right to do so because as Christ did teach: “those who are with us are not against us”. Thus we must think: “do they actually cause any damage?”. If they undermine someones, or even ours, faith they do cause damage. If not, well, they are on our side. The most important thing we Christians need to keep in mind, day and night,is to spread The Gospel. Somewhere, somehow we seem to be too busy being Catholics and Christians debating words and split hair over minor issues like “was this the right order of words and if not is…valid?”. It is important to follow the Canon and the right and correct Mass-order but more important is always what Christ REALLY want us to do. To "us"it is important, but to “those others” it have no impact. If someone want to listen to The Gospel he/she must have the right to do so, and in any language or Church available.

To be able to spread The Gospel being a Catholic have no meaning what so ever. What has is the fact that we are Christians. Maybe we have a privilege being Catholics but that is not helping those who are not.

What we know we must preach. What we have faith in we must make others to get faith as well, in that procedure it is not important what word come first. Learn to walk before you can run. Make no mistake, I am 100% Catholic and proud to be, it is a true gift from God, but I am also aware, as I hope you all are, of the fact that in order to do Gods will and share the gift we have received from Him it is crucial to be a Christian first. Learn to walk. Then, if we do it right, we may lead people to “our” Church and faith. Learn to run. And we must also be realistic. Not all will be saved. Not even all Catholics will be. Not all will join our faith and not all will have faith in what we have. Those souls will be saved by God Himself, and His everlasting love, if they do what is right and proper. I don’t know if I will be saved, I can only do what is right and have faith.

Other Christian Churches have a role in this world. They preach and teach The Gospels, maybe not as we want it to be done, but they do bring Christ to the congregation every Sunday, maybe they don’t use the “right” words, but they do what they think is right, and that can’t be all that wrong, can it?

There really is no way for us to know what is right or wrong if we don’t have faith, and even then it can be a bit confusing now and then. For me it is a “dream come true” to be Catholic. I did search, and every time I ended up in a Catholic Church. I defend the Catholic faith whenever needed. I practice my Catholic faith as good as I can, stumbling sometimes, but God is here to help me, as He help you all. God did call me to His Church and here I am, as Catholic as Our Holy Father is, and because of that I also defend other Churches as long as they do what God have told us to do. I defend every Christian Church and I do so being a proud Catholic doing Gods will. So, will faith alone save us? For many it is what keeping them doing what is right, and if our example help, let us give them it. Faith alone will most likely not help “us Catholics” because we know more (or do we?) but one thing is sure, faith alone will save those who God love and those who love God. God love us, and want us to do more, but He will not abandon anyone who love Him because if someone love God hi/she can’t do wrong in Gods eyes.

 

[chero23]

Hello fellow from the Midwest! I have never heard a parish priest embrace abortion at any level. I fell this may be an error on your part. Homosexual activity is embraced by some and not by others. It all depends on the parish.

Thanks Jon!

Faith in Christ brings about life. We should also live out that faith as Christ commanded us to do. Sola seems to send some people into chaos lol

You say that you have never heard a parish priest accept it, or support it. Unfortunately the Church as a whole accepts it and that is wrong there’s no way around it.

My girlfriend and I have been reading the Bible, one of the main reasons why God became upset with the Jews was because they were killing innocent blood, especially sacrificing their kids to other gods. I’m sure not all Jews did that in OT times, but since that was what they were teaching and doing, this upset God.

That’s why if a church accepts abortion, no matter if they get everything else right, which honestly they won’t because they will continue to lie, that church will just condemn people.

 

[aidanbradypop]

You say that you have never heard a parish priest accept it, or support it. Unfortunately the Church as a whole accepts it and that is wrong there’s no way around it.

My girlfriend and I have been reading the Bible, one of the main reasons why God became upset with the Jews was because they were killing innocent blood, especially sacrificing their kids to other gods. I’m sure not all Jews did that in OT times, but since that was what they were teaching and doing, this upset God.

That’s why if a church accepts abortion, no matter if they get everything else right, which honestly they won’t because they will continue to lie, that church will just condemn people.

Chero this thread is not about abortion or homosexuality, but since you brought it up I will address the matter and then drop it for the sake of the thread.

Also, one should not throw stones when living in a glass house.

From TEC: “All human life is sacred from its inception until death. The Church takes seriously its obligation to help form the consciences of its members concerning this sacredness…We regard all abortion as having a tragic dimension, calling for the concern and compassion of all the Christian community. While we acknowledge that in this country it is the legal right of every woman to have a medically safe abortion, as Christians we believe strongly that if this right is exercised, it should be used only in extreme situations. We emphatically oppose abortion as a means of birth control, family planning, sex selection, or any reason of mere convenience.”-69th General Convention 1998

Also, in Scripture, the Israelites were told to slaughter women and children. “Leave no one alive” was often stated.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Faith is what’s most important, above all things in fact, but the Sola Fide doctrine
professed by many is just another way of saying, “I don’t need a Church, just me,
the Bible, and Jesus.”

It sure takes the pressure off, that for true, but that is not what God
wants. We are to belong to the True Church which Jesus founded.

Where’s the Worship?

Sola Fide (strictly Sola that is) is for people afraid
of Organized Religion, Systematic Worship, and
an Established Church.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I would agree that may ring true for some but not all. Many believe faith comes first and then our lives (the fruit we produce) comes from such faith. I can see how you would get that picture because some actually think like that but a true faith is that of a faith that produces.

 

[ClearWater]

Faith is what’s most important, above all things in fact, but the Sola Fide doctrine
professed by many is just another way of saying, “I don’t need a Church, just me,
the Bible, and Jesus.”

It sure takes the pressure off, that for true, but that is not what God
wants. We are to belong to the True Church which Jesus founded.

Where’s the Worship?

Sola Fide (strictly Sola that is) is for people afraid
of Organized Religion, Systematic Worship, and
an Established Church.

I hadn’t considered that in that light. Good points!

 

[chero23]

Chero this thread is not about abortion or homosexuality, but since you brought it up I will address the matter and then drop it for the sake of the thread.

Also, one should not throw stones when living in a glass house.

From TEC: “All human life is sacred from its inception until death. The Church takes seriously its obligation to help form the consciences of its members concerning this sacredness…We regard all abortion as having a tragic dimension, calling for the concern and compassion of all the Christian community. While we acknowledge that in this country it is the legal right of every woman to have a medically safe abortion, as Christians we believe strongly that if this right is exercised, it should be used only in extreme situations. We emphatically oppose abortion as a means of birth control, family planning, sex selection, or any reason of mere convenience.”-69th General Convention 1998

Also, in Scripture, the Israelites were told to slaughter women and children. “Leave no one alive” was often stated.

The topic of abortion and homosexuality was brought, what I tried to prove was what is said in Luke 16:10-13, if you are faithful in the small you will be faithful in the big. If you teach that abortion is ok and also that your justified by faith alone, if you make that the big teaching of your church, then by having looked at the verse in Luke 16, your teachings are not right because you have not set up a foundation.

Go back and read those verse to see why God asked that everyone got killed. You will be surprised. But you have to be profound when reading. Don’t just skim through it. l

 

[aidanbradypop]

The topic of abortion and homosexuality was brought, what I tried to prove was what is said in Luke 16:10-13, if you are faithful in the small you will be faithful in the big. If you teach that abortion is ok and also that your justified by faith alone, if you make that the big teaching of your church, then by having looked at the verse in Luke 16, your teachings are not right because you have not set up a foundation.

Go back and read those verse to see why God asked that everyone got killed. You will be surprised. But you have to be profound when reading. Don’t just skim through it. l

Chero I would be happy to discuss this in a PM so we do not derail the thread.

 

[JMatthewA]

If this article is what many Episcopalians now believe then I would assume they have no claim to being catholic as they seem to insist.

Any thoughts on this subject as I am a bit confused. This sounds very protestant to me or am I wrong.

Anglicans call themselves Catholic but Roman Catholics do not call them Catholic. Also, Anglicans reject the authority of the pope. We Roman Catholics call them protestant. Since they say the Creed including the “I believe in one, holy, catholic, apostolic church” they must maintain that they’re Catholic as the Creed says Christ’s church is.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Anglicans call themselves Catholic but Roman Catholics do not call them Catholic. Also, Anglicans reject the authority of the pope. We Roman Catholics call them protestant. Since they say the Creed including the “I believe in one, holy, catholic, apostolic church” they must maintain that they’re Catholic as the Creed says Christ’s church is.

So what of the Orthodox? They reject the pope yet Rome calls them a Church and part of the Church that Christ established on earth.