Faith Alone

[JonNC]

=ClearWater;11437077]As a Catholic, I don’t accept Sola Fide (only by faith). Likewise, I don’t accept any of the 5 solas.

Only by Faith
Only by Grace
Only by Scripture
Only by Christ
Glory to God, Alone

Do I object to faith? No. Do I object to grace? No. Do I object to the use of scripture? No. Do I object to Christ? No. Do I object to the glory of God? No.

With the 5 solae, what I, and we Catholics, object to is the use of the word, “ONLY”.

Can you get to God through faith, grace, and scripture? Absolutely.

Is it by faith, ONLY? No, because obviously, you just said you can also get there by grace and scripture. Also, there’s baptism, good works.

There are 5 onlys in the Protestant faith. First of all, how can you have 5 onlys?

The same way you can have only’s in other settings. They apply to different things, and are meant to exclude different things.
Therefore, when we say by grace alone, we mean to exclude any other way salvation is available to us. It is only by God’s grace. When we say by faith alone, we mean to say that is the sole way in which we justification, and we exclude other means as possible ways to justification, such as proposed by the Pelagians. When we say by Christ alone, we recognize that Christ alone is our Savior, that no one else did or even could have paid the atoning sacrifice which makes our salvation possible. So, by grace alone through faith alone, in the works of Christ alone are we justified.
Scripture alone speaks to the belief that only scripture is the final norm. by which teachers and teachings, doctrines and dogmas are held accountable.

So, is it faith ALONE? Well, in Matthew 25:31-46, good works are necessary. In John 6:48-58, the Eucharist is necessary for eternal life. Acts 15:11, we are saved by grace. In 1 Corinthians 13:13, it says love is actually greater than faith. In 1 Peter 3:21, we are told that baptism saves us.

Sola fide does not exclude good works, but only says that those good works are not what justifies. Are good works necessary? Of course, since a faith without them is a dead faith.
St. Paul tells us that we are saved by faith working through love.
And baptism, like Holy Absolution and the Eucharist, is a means of grace. The Spirit uses these means to bring us grace, which kindles and strengthens faith in us.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

=Judas Thaddeus;11437344]Faith is what’s most important, above all things in fact, but the Sola Fide doctrine
professed by many is just another way of saying, “I don’t need a Church, just me,
the Bible, and Jesus.”

And this would be a horrible misunderstanding of sola fide. If we recognize that it is by His Church that the Spirit brings us the means of grace, the sacraments, and where we hear His words, then we must have the Church. My faith is strengthened regularly by hearing the word, confessing my sins, and receive His body and blood. I go to the Church to receive these.

It sure takes the pressure off, that for true, but that is not what God
wants. We are to belong to the True Church which Jesus founded.

Indeed.

Where’s the Worship?

Sola Fide (strictly Sola that is) is for people afraid
of Organized Religion, Systematic Worship, and
an Established Church.

Only when they misunderstand what *sola fide *means.

Jon

 

[PJM]

=BernadetteM;11436686]While scanning an Anglican/Episcopal website I noticed an article that “Sola Fide” or Justification by Faith Alone is the true Biblical and Patristic truth.

It also mentioned that Martin Luther brought this truth back to the church after “men” incorrectly changed the meaning. I guess it meant that Faith without Works is Dead is no longer a valid belief.

All the comments were very positive about the thread.

Yes it is only through the grace of God that we are drawn to faith, however, am I wrong to believe that with this grace of faith, works will follow and if not then we don’t really have true faith.

If this article is what many Episcopalians now believe then I would assume they have no claim to being catholic as they seem to insist.

Any thoughts on this subject as I am a bit confused. This sounds very protestant to me or am I wrong.

Yours In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

NO ANY “ONE THING” can, or does result biblically; in ones salvation.

Consider Faith “alone” or even through Grace; and then READ John 3:5 and Mt. 19:17

Salvation is a PROCESS:thumbsup:

God Bless you,
Patrick

 

[Kliska]

NO ANY “ONE THING” can, or does result biblically; in ones salvation.

One thing can’t, but One Person, One God, can.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever shall believe (faithe) on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

 

[sousley]

And this would be a horrible misunderstanding of sola fide. If we recognize that it is by His Church that the Spirit brings us the means of grace, the sacraments, and where we hear His words, then we must have the Church. My faith is strengthened regularly by hearing the word, confessing my sins, and receive His body and blood. I go to the Church to receive these.

Indeed.

Only when they misunderstand what *sola fide *means.

Jon

Jon, do you find any disconnect between how Luther viewed sola fide and the Catholic understanding and if so what would you say it is?

 

[JonNC]

Jon, do you find any disconnect between how Luther viewed sola fide and the Catholic understanding and if so what would you say it is?

I think the biggest disconnect here at CAF is that Catholic posters are too often exposed to an American evangelical/Baptist view of it, hence the belief that somehow sola fide is a free pass with no works necessary.
I think the Catholic Church, OTOH, as quite a solid understanding of what we believe, as is evidenced by the recent discussions of the topic between us, with some positive results.

Jon

 

[Kliska]

I think the Catholic Church, OTOH, as quite a solid understanding of what we believe, as is evidenced by the recent discussions of the topic between us, with some positive results.

Jon

Do you personally feel that was true at the time of Luther as well? Or do you see this as a change in the stance (or perhaps application) of/in the RCC?

 

[concretecamper]

While scanning an Anglican/Episcopal website I noticed an article that “Sola Fide” or Justification by Faith Alone is the true Biblical and Patristic truth.

It also mentioned that Martin Luther brought this truth back to the church after “men” incorrectly changed the meaning. I guess it meant that Faith without Works is Dead is no longer a valid belief.

All the comments were very positive about the thread.

Yes it is only through the grace of God that we are drawn to faith, however, am I wrong to believe that with this grace of faith, works will follow and if not then we don’t really have true faith.

If this article is what many Episcopalians now believe then I would assume they have no claim to being catholic as they seem to insist.

Any thoughts on this subject as I am a bit confused. This sounds very protestant to me or am I wrong.

Yours In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

The RCC does not teach that good works are only a natural result of faith. Good works cooperating with faith furthers our justification. Here is an excerpt from Trent:

Having, therefore, been thus justified and made the friends and domestics of God,[49] advancing from virtue to virtue,[50] they are renewed, as the Apostle says, day by day,[51] that is, mortifying the members[52] of their flesh, and presenting them as instruments of justice unto sanctification,[53] they, through the observance of the commandments of God and of the Church, faith cooperating with good works, increase in that justice received through the grace of Christ and are further justified, as it is written:

He that is just, let him be justified still;[54] and, Be not afraid to be justified even to death;[55] and again, Do you see that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only?[56]

This increase of justice holy Church asks for when she prays: “Give unto us, O Lord, an increase of faith, hope and charity.”[57]

Jon, can you ever see the LCMS agreeing with Trent on justification?

 

[sousley]

I think the biggest disconnect here at CAF is that Catholic posters are too often exposed to an American evangelical/Baptist view of it, hence the belief that somehow sola fide is a free pass with no works necessary.
I think the Catholic Church, OTOH, as quite a solid understanding of what we believe, as is evidenced by the recent discussions of the topic between us, with some positive results.

Jon

Ok. I follow the second part and don’t personally think that there is much of a chasm. As for the first, I wasn’t referring to Free Grace doctrines or any modern misconceptions such as American evangelical/Baptist. I am sure Luther would be mortified if he saw the redefinitions of what he called sola fida that are too often in practice today.

 

[JonNC]

Do you personally feel that was true at the time of Luther as well? Or do you see this as a change in the stance (or perhaps application) of/in the RCC?

I think the practices and applications were different in Luther’s times, whatever Catholic doctrine teaches or taught. Whether or not “stances” have changed, something I largely doubt on both sides, the bigger change IMO is the willing to look at each other’s POV and discuss on how we can come to convergence.

Jon

 

[Kliska]

I think the practices and applications were different in Luther’s times, whatever Catholic doctrine teaches or taught. Whether or not “stances” have changed, something I largely doubt on both sides, the bigger change IMO is the willing to look at each other’s POV and discuss on how we can come to convergence.

Jon

Interesting. Thank you :tiphat:

 

[Nicea325]

What are the works horrific works? That they are considering women bishops?

I agree the Anglican church is in decline. I think that has more to do with the general decline in Christianity and rise in new Atheism in the West.

But I also would include the reception of relativism by many Christian communities. The “politically correct” baloney!

 

[PJM]

=Kliska;11438869]One thing can’t, but One Person, One God, can.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever shall believe (faithe) on Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

TRUE

BUT He INSIST it be accomplished HIS WAY:thumbsup: [singular]

God Bless you!

 

[Kliska]

TRUE

BUT He INSIST it be accomplished HIS WAY:thumbsup: [singular]

True as well! And He is the Way.

God Bless you!

And you as well!