Faith and Good Works

[vern_humphrey]

Purgatory is for punishment for sins. I don’t quite understand this.

Sin carries two consequences, guilt and punishment. You can be forgiven for the sin, and still have to endure the punishment.

To understand it, consider this – I steal $10,000 from you. I come to you and tell you I did it, and you, being a good Catholic say, “Okay. I forgive you.”

But that isn’t the end of it – I still owe you the $10,000 I stole.

Just so with sin – even if we are forgiven, we still must pay what we owe.

If you die in mortal sin, you go to hell.

Yes.

If you die in venial sin, you go to purgatoty.

You go to purgatory to be purged of your debt to God.

If you die in no sin, you go to heaven.
Correct?

If you literally mean** no** sin, that’s correct. But as illustrated above, it is quite possible to have all sin forgiven and still owe a debt.

A friend told me that if someone goes to heaven straight away, they are a saint.

A saint is a person in Heaven, regardless of how they got there.

The Catholic Church has a formalized process whereby we determine if a person of special merit is in Heaven.

 

[dominikus28]

A saint is a person in Heaven, regardless of how they got there.

The Catholic Church has a formalized process whereby we determine if a person of special merit is in Heaven.

So everyone will eventually become a saint.

But is that different from becoming canonized by the Church? Can you be a saint but not be formally recognised as one on earth?
Is a saint canonized by the church: in heaven straight away, had a miracle in his/her life?

 

[NotWorthy]

So everyone will eventually become a saint.

No, only those who make it to heaven are saints.

But is that different from becoming canonized by the Church? Can you be a saint but not be formally recognised as one on earth?

Yes, you can definately be a saint without being recognized as one on earth. Lord, Heaven would be a rather empty place if we believed that, wouldn’t it?

Is a saint canonized by the church: in heaven straight away, had a miracle in his/her life?

There’s a long process that the Church goes through in order to canonize a saint. But it does entail:

1. A look at the person’s life as an example of the Love of Chirst.
2. Miracles that may have occurred around this person’s body after their death.

I’m sure there’s a lot more to it than that, but this gives a 10,000 foot view, if you will.

 

[dominikus28]

By ‘everyone will be a saint’ I mean everone who is in purgatory.
Correct?

 

[Mommyof02green]

By ‘everyone will be a saint’ I mean everone who is in purgatory.
Correct?

If a person is in purgatory they will go to heaven.

If a person is in heaven they are saint.

americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0505.asp

americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac0494.asp

 

[Tom]

If works of law requires you to be a good jew, then how does that apply to catholics?

Jesus calls us to do things, works of Christian charity and mercy. There are some people who misread Scriptures, specifically the writings of Paul, thinking that Paul is teaching that you need do nothing except have faith, this is called “Faith Alone”. Faith alone is not correct, Jesus indeed calls us to action. We need to understand the “works” Paul is referring to, which are “works of the Law” and not works of Christian charity.

 

[Bishopite]

As I understand it:

You will go to hell if you die in a state of mortal sin.
Not having faith is a mortal sin.

 

[Bishopite]

[dominikus28;2269990]Purgatory is for punishment for sins. I don’t quite understand this. If you die in mortal sin, you go to hell.
If you die in venial sin, you go to purgatoty.
If you die in no sin, you go to heaven.
Correct?

I wouldn’t say purgatory is strictly a punishment but more of God’s love burning for us to be competely pure, although there is a punishment element within purgatory, because of our unwillingness to yield to God’s love.

A friend told me that if someone goes to heaven straight away, they are a saint.

Yes, if someone goes to the beatific vision which is heaven they are a Saint. Those in purgatory are Saints in the making, so to speak. And although canonized Saints go to heaven, that doesn’t mean they didn’t have to go through purgatory first.

 

[Bishopite]

If works of law requires you to be a good jew, then how does that apply to catholics?

Works of law (circumcision, dietary restrictions like not eating pork, animal sacrifices) called the cerimonial law doesn’t apply to us since Jesus instituted the new covenant of grace…Jesus gave us a new covenant John 13:34 “I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.”
So even though the cerimonial aspect of the law was abolished, that doesn’t mean we don’t obey the moral law of God which is obeying the ten commandments. Jesus said “If you love me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15) and the moral law of God has never been abolished.

 

[Bishopite]

If works of law requires you to be a good jew, then how does that apply to catholics?

Works of law (circumcision, dietary restrictions like not eating pork, animal sacrifices) called the cerimonial law doesn’t apply to us since Jesus instituted the new covenant of grace…Jesus gave us a new covenant John 13:34 “I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.”
So even though the cerimonial aspect of the law was abolished, that doesn’t mean we don’t obey the moral law of God which is obeying the ten commandments. Jesus said “If you love me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15) and the moral law of God has never been abolished.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So everyone will eventually become a saint.

Everyone can become a saint, but not everyone will. It is quite possible to lose salvation through sin.

I would be surprised to find Hitler, Stalin, or Pol Pot in Heaven, for example.

But is that different from becoming canonized by the Church?

Canonization is a formal recognition that someone is in Heaven. As I said above, not everyone will be saved.

Can you be a saint but not be formally recognised as one on earth?

Certainly – the vast majority of Christians are not canonized. Heaven would be awfully empty of limited to just those formally recognized by the Church.

Is a saint canonized by the church: in heaven straight away, had a miracle in his/her life?

Being canonized doesn’t mean one doesn’t pass through Purgatory. But Purgatory, like Heaven, is not of time and space. So “straight away” has no meaning in that context.

One criterion for being canonized is to be found responsible for a miracle – which usually occurrs **after **death.

 

[dominikus28]

What exactly is meant by works and how does this apply to Catholics?

Also, does the Catholic Church have any dietary rules, e.g. no meat on Fridays?

 

[NotWorthy]

The parable of the sheep and the Goats comes to mind for starters. But it’s actually anything that we are taught is the Will of the Father. For instance, we are exhorted to attend Mass each week if possible.

On Fridays, year round, Catholics are asked to do some kind of penance to remember that our Lord suffered on a Friday. The penance is up to us, whatever works for the individual, so to speak.

On Friday’s during Lent, Catholics are asked to abstain from any meat, as well as limit the sumo of two of their meals to the total size of one normal meal. This, unites us in a minor way to the suffering of Christ as we prepare for His Easter (or Pascal) Sacrifice.

 

[YinYangMom]

What exactly is meant by works and how does this apply to Catholics?

Catholics are called to perform Spiritual and Corporal works of Mercy as noted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (#2447):

**2447 **The works of mercy are charitable actions by which we come to the aid of our neighbor in his spiritual and bodily necessities. Instructing, advising, consoling, comforting are spiritual works of mercy, as are forgiving and bearing wrongs patiently. The corporal works of mercy consist especially in feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and imprisoned, and burying the dead. Among all these, giving alms to the poor is one of the chief witnesses to fraternal charity: it is also a work of justice pleasing to God:

He who has two coats, let him share with him who has none and he who has food must do likewise. But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, everything is clean for you. If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?

Also, does the Catholic Church have any dietary rules, e.g. no meat on Fridays?

They aren’t dietary rules, they are guidelines for penitential practices.

The USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops) produced a summary of Penitential Practices for Today’s Catholics back in the Jubilee year 2000. You can read the summary here. Scrolling down to “Forms of Penance” you’ll see the terms “Fasting” and “Abstinence”. Those are the only ‘dietary’ guidelines I can recall at the moment.