Faith and Reason: Can I believe in Evolution and Original Sin?

[GIMJ]

I agree with the science that tells me the universe is about 13 billion years old and that Earth is about 4.5 billion years old. I accept the Big Bang and geological evolution theories. So next I look at the question of life:

I see no contradiction in holding to the theory of biological evolution and the doctrine of Creation. However, I have recently discovered a problem in accepting both evolution and Original Sin. Here is my logic. Please let me know where I go wrong.

1. God made man and all creation, and saw that it was “very good.”
2. Being good, all living creatures were immortal.
3. This perfect state persisted until, through Original Sin, Man introduced evil into the world.
4. Death is a consequence of the Fall (by one man, Adam, all die).

Given our belief in the All-good God and our reading of Sacred Scripture death could not have been in the world until the Fall of Adam and Eve. The theory of evolution, however, suggests a series of genetic mutations, which require the death of lower life forms that give way to more advanced life forms.

As a Catholic, it seems I cannot accept evolutionary theory without undermining the doctrine of Original Sin.

If you have come across any articles or books addressing this specific question, please let me know.

Please note: I am NOT looking to reconcile the doctrine of Creation with evolutionary theory. So please do not hijack this thread to answer a question I’m not asking. Evolution rejects abiogenesis. It depends on pre-existing life forms to mutate. Hence, evolution itself asks for a creator. So again, I am looking for an explanation of Original Sin in light of what is believed about evolutionary theory.

 

[NotWorthy]

Yes, you can believe in Evolution and Original Sin.

But, the first humans with souls were Adam and Eve and we all descended from them. If this can fit into your Evolution belief, than no problem.

 

[GIMJ]

But that is not what I asked.

If you can reconcile the two, please tell me how.

 

[GIMJ]

But that is not what I asked. Did Original Sin cause the fallen state of the world, or didn’t it? Did God create a good world, or didn’t he?

If you can reconcile the two, please tell me how.

 

[NotWorthy]

But that is not what I asked. Did Original Sin cause the fallen state of the world, or didn’t it? Did God create a good world, or didn’t he?

If you can reconcile the two, please tell me how.

Well, yes on both questions.

Why is that difficult to reconcile? God created a world and it was good. Did He do it in 6 days? You don’t have to believe that, hence evolution can be a part of your equation with running into a roadblock.

 

[GIMJ]

Well, yes on both questions.

Why is that difficult to reconcile? God created a world and it was good. Did He do it in 6 days? You don’t have to believe that, hence evolution can be a part of your equation with running into a roadblock.

Do you believe that death is a consequence of sin? Otherwise death is by God’s design.

This is my dilemma, nothing more: I believe that death is a consequence of Original Sin. (Please correct me if I misunderstand Church teaching.) The theory of evolution says, “No, death was around long before humans with souls and wills came about choosing evil.” Evolutionary theory says my view of Original Sin is untenable. So does my view of Original Sin need correction, or is evolutionary theory incompatible with the Catholic Faith?

I’m not asking a question about the age of the planet. Let’s not get off topic.

 

[NotWorthy]

Do you believe that death is a consequence of sin? Otherwise death is by God’s design.

This is my dilemma, nothing more: I believe that death is a consequence of Original Sin. (Please correct me if I misunderstand Church teaching.) The theory of evolution says, “No, death was around long before humans with souls and wills came about choosing evil.” Evolutionary theory says my view of Original Sin is untenable. So does my view of Original Sin need correction, or is evolutionary theory incompatible with the Catholic Faith?

I’m not asking a question about the age of the planet. Let’s not get off topic.

I think death for an individual with a soul is a result of Original Sin. Look to the animals. Were they intended to die a mortal death? I would think so, because they didn’t have a supernatural soul.

What would evolve into humans did not have a soul, and hence would die. Adam and Eve, however, were not meant to suffer corruption.

 

[GIMJ]

I think death for an individual with a soul is a result of Original Sin. Look to the animals. Were they intended to die a mortal death? I would think so, because they didn’t have a supernatural soul.

What would evolve into humans did not have a soul, and hence would die. Adam and Eve, however, were not meant to suffer corruption.

Thanks for your posts, I think it makes more sense to me now.

I agree that animal souls lack the “supernatural” image of God that Man has. I was confused by a writing of St. Thomas Aquinas that I must have misunderstood as suggesting that the suffering and mortality of animals was also a consequence of the Fall.

So my view of the effects of the Fall was too broad, in other words.

I found this link that seems to reinforce what you’re saying. Starting with paragraph 62, if you’re interested:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20040723_communion-stewardship_en.html

 

[Dogface_Soldier]

I think death for an individual with a soul is a result of Original Sin. Look to the animals. Were they intended to die a mortal death? I would think so, because they didn’t have a supernatural soul.

What would evolve into humans did not have a soul, and hence would die. Adam and Eve, however, were not meant to suffer corruption.

great answer; seems consonant with the way Origen, Ignatius of Antioch, and Augustine taught that Genesis should be read.

 

[PJM]

But that is not what I asked. Did Original Sin cause the fallen state of the world, or didn’t it? Did God create a good world, or didn’t he?

If you can reconcile the two, please tell me how.

Perhaps these few reflections will help:shrug:

Evolution is a possibility, true.

However at some distant point there was (logically speaking) nothing, so what was the source of the “matter” in the “Big Bang?”

**Something can only be what it is

Sommething can’t be something it is not**

God is Spirit, as are our minds, intellects,wills, and the “motor” for these that we call our Soul.

Lift your left arm, now put it down

Lift your right arm, now put it down.

You have just demonistrated the ability of “Mind (Spirit) over Matter.” God is Spirit.

The 1st. point is that God as Spirit, Created (to make out of nothing) all parts of Creation, and indeed keeps them where He wants them to be, doing what He wants them to do.

For example the Sun and Moon, the tides, air to breath Ect. There is also a provable chain of complexirty and superiority in evidence.

A cell, a blade of grass, a tree, a fish, a dog, a human… Why?

Each has a specific roll to play in the life cycles of the Universe.

Point 2. God is both ALL and EVERYTHING GOOD! So we can know logically that the world’s that God created too are good.

Did Orginal Sin cause the “fallen state” of the world?

The “world has existed for billions of years” so I’m not clear of what you mean exactly?

Evolution, is at best an incomplete science.

For example what is the evolution of sight, hearing, speach? And at what point in evolution did mind,intellect, will and soul exist. And as, “SPIRITS” what was there origin?

Clearly, Orginal sin did exist, as it effects, our primal basic natures, seems naturally to tend towards sin. Thus EVERYONE is a Sinner. That is abiding evidence of it’s existence.

But my friend, that’s old news.

Jesus Christ was born, lived and died, and rose again from the dead, to conquer sin! Amen!

His death of the Cross was an act of Redemption, BUT NOT necessarly salvation. The two words have different meanings.

He Alone caused our Redemption and makes heaven Possible. But He alone does not cause our Salvation?

Why not you ask? because it would deny the very reason that we were Created in His Image. Like God Himself, we have a spiritual mind, intellect and will, and then God adds our Soul, which animates all parts of our being!

Why,

Nothing besides humanity can appreciate all of God’s Creations, and give Him Wonder, Awe, and Thanksgiving. Nouthing esle in Creation can THANK GOD! That’s the “string” attached to our Spiritual gifts.

To enable us to Know, Love and Serve Him in this World, and thereby co -operate with Christ in our Salvation.

So, did Orgianl Sin cause “bad” or “good”? Friend it’s up to you and me to persoanlly make that call:thumbsup: