Faith and Science

[grannymh]

Interesting. *The God Delusion *by Richard Dawkins was removed from all the bookstores where I live! I’m sure you’ll be in for a real roller coaster ride. I almost threw it in the fireplace but saved it just incase someone likes to talk about it. I hope you’re ready for him attacking Mother Teresa of Calcutta, etc. What a nightmare!

Dear wildleafblower,

Thanks for your comments about the roller coaster ride. I’ve read the recent book about Mother Teresa and her spiritual life so I’m prepared for any “nightmare” involving her. The older I get, the more convinced I am of the importance of the “spiritual” side of human nature.

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[grannymh]

Nepenthe! Mirdath! Hope all is going well with you. I haven’t seen either of you post lately and thought you disappeared.

We disagree about…well…a few things. But I like both of you. Please stick around for a while

Dear Nepenthe and Mirdath,

I was going to reply to your original post, then saw this one. Not only am I new to this Forum, I’m cathcing up on a lot of things involving evolution, etc. etc., I recently came across the term non-theist and thought that might be a good way to describe one or two of my six kids. Now, according to your public profile, I know two real ones and maybe down the line we can share ideas. And judging from your post, you do need to stick around.

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[wildleafblower]

Dear wildleafblower,

Thanks for your comments about the roller coaster ride. I’ve read the recent book about Mother Teresa and her spiritual life so I’m prepared for any “nightmare” involving her. The older I get, the more convinced I am of the importance of the “spiritual” side of human nature.

Blessings,
grannymh

Hi grannymh Ahhh, I absolutely love Mother Teresa and what she said when interviewed by Edward W. Desmond in 1989 for an article in Time magazine:

Time: People who work with you say that you are unstoppable. You always get what you want.
Mother Teresa: That’s right. All for Jesus.
Time: And if they have a problem with that?
Mother Teresa: For example, I went to a person recently who would not give me what I needed. I said God bless you, and I went on. He called me back and said what would you say if I give you that thing. I said I will give you a “God bless you” and a big smile. That is all. So he said then come, I will give it to you. We must live the simplicity of the Gospel.

I know Mother Teresa is smiling down on us with profound love. Nuns tend to agree that joy is love, prayer, and strength.

Several presents for everyone . . .

With the following words Mother used to describe the unity that exists between the different branches within the family of the Missionaries of Charity:

Missionaries of Charity.
Five wounds of Jesus.
In one Body Jesus.
The two wounds in the Hands.
Sisters and Brothers - Active.
Serving with active love the Poor.
The two wounds in the Feet.
Sisters and Brothers - Contemplative
Going in search of souls by their word, prayer and penance.
The Wound in the Sacred Heart of Jesus.
The Priests - Satiating the Thirst of Jesus
By having (loving) their Priesthood
by completing the work of the Sisters and Brothers –
of the Poor they serve.
That is why to show and live fully that
oneness we light five lights at Adoration,
each separately – yet adoring one Jesus –
by the one M.C. Society – Sisters, Brothers, Fathers
make one Body Jesus.
One way, one life,
working at the salvation and sanctification
of the Poorest of the Poor.

To be able to do this -
we need a deep life of prayer, community life,
together with the material and spiritual service
of the Poorest of the Poor.
M. Teresa, MC
mcpriests.com/11_formula.htm
http://www.mcpriests.com/11_formula.htm

"Jesus is God, therefore His love, His Thirst, is infinite. He the creator of the universe, asked for the love of His creatures. He thirst for our love… These words: ‘I Thirst’ – Do they echo in our souls?”Mother Teresa

I Thirst for You "Behold, I stand at the door and knock… (Rev. 3, 20)
mcpriests.com/03_I_thirst_PrayerEN.htm
http://www.mcpriests.com/03_I_thirst_PrayerEN.htm

As far as Dawkins book is concerned it was removed from “all” bookstores. The main reason is there are many Catholics and other religions, as well as non-believers, within my beautiful community. We felt such a book brings division. Parents from different religions/faith and non-believers thought it best to have it removed since we live in peace as a family. Many of these people with their children will be coming to my grand XMas party! Bless ya! I’m really busy right now the head count has gone to nearly 100 people. The Word gets around. I’m already tired but excited!!!

Nepenthe, I’m sorry to read that you have been hurt. Mother Teresa said that we must forgive something like 100 times 68 or something like that.

May blessings pour forth in light of Cassini’s rude remark to whomever it was for about the Devil. (And his apparent lack of a science education) I was under the belief that Jesus came to save “us” from Satan. I am a child of the light not the dark. Praise be to God. I luv Jesus more than mere mortal words can express. Let us remember our sweet Lord. Please pray for me too that I won’t be too pooped out before the party. Thank you.

 

[cassini]

you are embarrassing the church by proclaiming the churches position falsely. thats why i am still talking to you, young people may see your writing on the subject and be forever lost from us because they think you are speaking for the church. who could take us seriously in light of that?

Just so you know, I’m sure there are others like me just reading (for days) your discussions. I am not Catholic but have been looking at the Catholic church and it’s teachings and quite honestly “Cassini” you seem to be somewhat of a rebel in your church- sure you’re not a "Protestant?! One thing I’ve liked about the Catholic church is that it seems to position itself in terms of evolution being “theist evolutionist” which is where I’m at and many Protestant (especially Evangelical ones) aren’t. So…remember, others are reading and interested in what you are saying and how the Catholic church is being represented.

Dear Miz, just noticed your post now. Pity you did not say what you are if not a Catholic. No I am not a Protestant. If I am a rebel it is in the mode of Athanasius. He, we know, saved Churchmen from going down the road of the Arian heresy in the fourth century. All the rhetoric and charges that are directed at me and the few other Catholics who are faithful to the Church’s 1616 decree were similarly aimed at Athanasius.

That said, in the field of faith and science, I am indeed at one with Protestants in their stand against the false philosophy of long-ages and evolutionism. I have read up on masses of their scholarship, scientific investigation and rebuttals on the claims of evolutionists. On the Catholic side all one finds is a Pontifical Academy of Sciences filled with atheists and agnostics and a few Christians who are only in there because they toe the party evgolutionist line. The idea that any Pope would look to these disbelievers, who are empty of grace, to produce TRUTH, is to me a contradiction in terms.

They follow in the direct line of Andrew White.

No forum on faith and science could ignore the book A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, authored in 1896 by Andrew Dickson White. White, born in New York in 1832, became a student of history and after receiving his BA at the age of twenty-one spent a year of study in Europe. Then, after a spell as professor of history at the University of Michigan, he served in the New York Senate in the mid-1860s. As Chairman of the Senate’s committee on education, White, a long-time member of the anti-Catholic masonic ‘Order of the Skull and Bones’ dedicated himself to the establishment of a completely secular university, totally free from all religious influences. After a fierce public debate on the merits or demerits of such a university, Ezra Cornell emerged as a willing benefactor, ready to finance such a venture. The University of Cornell duly opened its doors in 1867 with White serving as the university’s first president until 1885.
White’s first published works included a series of pamphlets dealing with the history of the advancement of what he calls ‘science against theological opposition’. These he later compiled into a book of two volumes.
Andrew White was without doubt a brilliant scholar, linguist and researcher. He was acquainted with all the best libraries in Europe as well as America, and had a capacity to absorb the scholarly works of the learned authors of most nationalities.
With regard to the subject matter under examination, in the preface of this book he tells the reader:

‘I propose to present an outline of the great, sacred struggle for the liberty of science – a struggle which has lasted for so many centuries, and which yet continues. A hard contest it has been; a war waged longer, with battles fiercer, with sieges more persistent, with strategy more shrewd than in any of the comparatively transient warfare of Caesar or Napoleon or Moltke.’

And try to present this he does. His bibliography is without doubt one of the most varied and comprehensive. His footnotes alone take up a considerable space, and his source material was found in many different languages. Now White may have been a world-class historian, but a philosopher of science he most certainly was not. An informed reading of this book shows that what White accepted and postulated as ‘science’ would not have qualified as such in any era prior to the Copernican revolution. Much of what he included in his book as scientific verification or proof for heliocentricism as against geocentricism; for uniformitarianism against catastrophism ; for evolutionism against creationism , was nothing short of multiple assumptions based on biased and wishful thinking. But White, like so many other bigoted anti-Catholics writing on the same subjects, was in the propaganda business, and the extent of his success was astounding. ‘It was’, he said, the ‘theological spirit that had a tendency to dogmatism which has shown itself in all ages to be the deadly foe not only of scientific inquiry, but of the higher religious spirit itself.’ What White could not accept was that in theology we find infallible truths that rightly oppose the ‘scientific’ inventions of godless minds and therein lay the clashing of faith and false reasoning, the two totally incompatible, and warfare was inevitable.
A History has enjoyed numerous editions, has been translated into many languages, has been read by millions, and is still in print. Is it any wonder then it is often quoted in textbooks and popular history as an authoritative source on the history of faith and science?

This book could well be the Bible of the Pontifical Academy of Scientists. Much of its contents I have heard being regurgitated by modern Churchmen and as I said before, even if an angel of light appeared before me and told me to believe in the evolutionism of John Paul II and Benedict XVI, I would take an Athanasius

 

[StAnastasia]

This book could well be the Bible of the Pontifical Academy of Scientists. Much of its contents I have heard being regurgitated by modern Churchmen and as I said before, even if an angel of light appeared before me and told me to believe in the evolutionism of John Paul II and Benedict XVI, I would take an Athanasius

Cassini, you have no idea what you’re talking about. AD White’s book has for the last twenty-five years been exposed by eminent historians for the historiographical fraud that it is. And why on earth would churchmen want to “regurgitate” his fraud?

 

[warpspeedpetey]

All the rhetoric and charges that are directed at me and the few other Catholics who are faithful to the Church’s 1616 decree were similarly aimed at Athanasius.

Athanasius was fighting an actual theological heresy, you are asking us to ignore what we can see and then further to ignore the reversal of opinion the church had in 1992

That said, in the field of faith and science, I am indeed at one with Protestants in their stand against the false philosophy of long-ages and evolutionism. I have read up on masses of their scholarship, scientific investigation and rebuttals on the claims of evolutionists.

a protestant, protests the actions of the Church, i suggest that you are indeed a protestant as you protest the actions of the church in 1992

On the Catholic side all one finds is a Pontifical Academy of Sciences filled with atheists and agnostics and a few Christians who are only in there because they toe the party evgolutionist line.

please provide evidence for any of this.

The idea that any Pope would look to these disbelievers, who are empty of grace, to produce TRUTH, is to me a contradiction in terms.

funny but the Pope holds the seat of Peter, last i checked he was in charge. do you have any evidence of these accusations?

This book could well be the Bible of the Pontifical Academy of Scientists.

alot of anti-church feelings here

Much of its contents I have heard being regurgitated by modern Churchmen and as I said before, even if an angel of light appeared before me and told me to believe in the evolutionism of John Paul II and Benedict XVI, I would take an Athanasius

so even an angel of Light could not change your mind? so if you were presented with the absolute truth by G-d himself you would refuse?

do you realize that what you are saying concerning the modern church is anti-catholic in tone and substance?

people who read these posts are often searching for G-d, you are telling them that the modern church lost its way. please stop

 

[cassini]

Cassini, you have no idea what you’re talking about. AD White’s book has for the last twenty-five years been exposed by eminent historians for the historiographical fraud that it is. And why on earth would churchmen want to “regurgitate” his fraud?

Everything White included in his book as scientific verification or proof for heliocentricism as against geocentricism; for uniformitarianism against catastrophism ; for evolutionism against creationism is exactly what I found coming from heliocentricists, uniformitarians and evolutionists on this thread. I therefore have no idea what you could mean by a ‘fraud’, considering you are one of these.

 

[cassini]

do you realize that what you are saying concerning the modern church is anti-catholic in tone and substance?

people who read these posts are often searching for G-d, you are telling them that the modern church lost its way. please stop

Warp, what I am saying here is kids’ stuff compared with what one could say. I told you before I am old enough to know what Catholicism is, and what is around these days is not Catholicism and here is why.

The demise of the Catholic faith as an influence over the peoples in its dominion accelerated as the doctrines of the Earthmovers and evolutionists were taken aboard, diluting not only the words of Sacred Scripture but removing a crucial link to God that He had placed in His creation a little over five thousand years ago. When pragmatic Churchmen consciously or in ignorance, tried to marry freemasonic ‘science’ with the truth of revelation, that is, tried to have the best of both worlds, trying to mix the teaching of the Church with the ‘intellectual’ ideas and fancies of the neo-Gnostic Earthmovers and sun fixers and their progeny, the long-age evolutionists and relativists, they plunged most Catholic teaching institutions into the camp of the modernists and modernism, putting everything and everyone at risk, including the intellectual credibility of Catholicism among the Church’s enemies and even within the flock itself.

The final assault on the geocentric doctrine came during the pastoral synod Vatican Council II, a non-dogmatic council that could be said to be the Church’s French revolution, fostering as it did the freemasonic principles of ‘liberty, equality and fraternity’ wherein, in certain areas, the reformers abandoned traditional certainties and absolutes in many spheres of Catholic teaching and pastoral care, creating an evolutionary system, always in flux and difficult to pin down. The modernists that dominated the Council deliberately placed traditional and novel ideas side by side in ambiguous language so that changes could be brought about later as the ‘teaching’ or ‘spirit’ of Vatican II. Thereafter a purge of traditionalists who dared object to the novelties began; a persecution that exiled, ‘excommunicated’ or retired numerous priests and religious who stayed faithful to their anti-modernist vow, a pogrom that remains the untold story of the 20th century.
Once the modernists secured their agenda for the council by convincing Pope John XXIII to discard the prepared texts of the traditionalists, one theme that constantly surfaced was that it was not enough for 1960s Churchmen to declare their regard for culture; they must also prove this by deeds. Thus, as a way for them to prove their ‘intentions decisively’, certain cardinals and bishops suggested in their speeches that there should be a full rehabilitation of Galileo. This was begun in the Council’s pastoral constitution Gaudium et Spes that censured all those Churchmen involved in the 1633 condemnation of Galileo for their ‘attitude’ to ‘science’ and ‘misleading many’ into conflict.

Today, 250 years after capitulating to the Copernican heresy, the Church’s reputation is in shreds, its influence on world affairs is almost zero, its teachings and doctrines perverted and ignored, its sainthood diminished, what is left of its priesthood and religious decimated and damaged by scandals, some of its sacraments devalued, its liturgy in chaos, many of its churches, denuded of the sacred are near empty, few seminaries and convents now exist because of the dearth of vocations, the Vatican has been turned into a circus, Eucharistic Congresses of old have been replaced by ecumenical get-togethers and World Youth Days of rock and roll prayer jamborees, and the Pope has acquired the status of a travelling pop-star.

Now if that is what you have to offer as Catholicism, how many do you think you are going to convert.?

 

[StAnastasia]

Everything White included in his book as scientific verification or proof for heliocentricism as against geocentricism; for uniformitarianism against catastrophism ; for evolutionism against creationism is exactly what I found coming from heliocentricists, uniformitarians and evolutionists on this thread. I therefore have no idea what you could mean by a ‘fraud’, considering you are one of these.

White’s History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom (1896) is essentially a lengthy anti-Catholic polemic. Why would Catholics want to promote it? A generation ago it was shown to be historiographical garbage.

StAnastasia

 

[StAnastasia]

Today, 250 years after capitulating to the Copernican heresy, the Church’s reputation is in shreds, its influence on world affairs is almost zero, its teachings and doctrines perverted and ignored, its sainthood diminished, what is left of its priesthood and religious decimated and damaged by scandals, some of its sacraments devalued, its liturgy in chaos, many of its churches, denuded of the sacred are near empty, few seminaries and convents now exist because of the dearth of vocations, the Vatican has been turned into a circus, Eucharistic Congresses of old have been replaced by ecumenical get-togethers and World Youth Days of rock and roll prayer jamborees, and the Pope has acquired the status of a travelling pop-star. Now if that is what you have to offer as Catholicism, how many do you think you are going to convert.?

Wow – is that the Church you see? What an imagination!

 

[mlz]

Has anyone read the book The Language of God by Francis S. Collins? (Author was head of the Geome Project) He is not Catholic but recommended for reading from Fr. Benedict Groechel.
I liked the book.

MLZ

 

[grannymh]

Has anyone read the book The Language of God by Francis S. Collins? (Author was head of the Geome Project) He is not Catholic but recommended for reading from Fr. Benedict Groechel.
I liked the book.

MLZ

Dear MLZ,

I haven’t read The Language of God; however, Father Groeschel is tops. These are the two books which are my all-time favorites. I give them away quite often.

In the Presence of Our Lord, The History, Theology, and Psychology of Eucharistic Devotion by Father Benedict J. Groeschel, C.F.R., and James Monti
and
Rome Sweet Home by Scott & Kimberly Hahn

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Now if that is what you have to offer as Catholicism, how many do you think you are going to convert.?

i trust in the Promises of Christ to His Bride the Church. the Faith is not a democracy, neither you nor i are in charge. it is not up to us to lead, it is our duty to follow.

this includes the churches current position on Galileo, that a mistake was made, it includes Vatican II. it includes many things that you may or may not like. but public dissension is unacceptable. what you speak of here in public are things better left in private discourse.

if you are incapable of Obedience to the Magisterium, then you should join the protestants, you can see the dying, babelesque fruits of their protest.

we rise together or we fall together. but we do it together. period

 

[grannymh]

Dear Warpspeedpetey,

May I add to your concluding statement in a previous post–“we rise together or we fall together. but we do it together. period”

In the Nicene Creed, said at the Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, we state the four “Marks” (characteristics) of the Catholic Church. They are One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.

This is a brief description of the first “Mark” which appeared in our parish bulletin.

“Our Church is seen as One because its members publicly express unity of doctrine, have unity of worship primarily in the Sacraments, and follow unity of government under one head. Its founder is the One God Who is Truth.”

Blessings,
grannymh

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Dear Warpspeedpetey,

May I add to your concluding statement in a previous post–“we rise together or we fall together. but we do it together. period”

In the Nicene Creed, said at the Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, we state the four “Marks” (characteristics) of the Catholic Church. They are One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.

This is a brief description of the first “Mark” which appeared in our parish bulletin.

“Our Church is seen as One because its members publicly express unity of doctrine, have unity of worship primarily in the Sacraments, and follow unity of government under one head. Its founder is the One God Who is Truth.”

Blessings,
grannymh

yup.

 

[StAnastasia]

Has anyone read the book The Language of God by Francis S. Collins? (Author was head of the Geome Project) He is not Catholic but recommended for reading from Fr. Benedict Groechel.I liked the book.MLZ

Yes, it’s a good book, if somewhat more simplistic in its take on theology. The problem of natural evil is thorny indeed.