Faith and Works

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Hi. Have you ever talked to someone outside of the Church about Faith and works? You probably have, I know I have at least a dozen times. And, as you may have noticed, there seems to be a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church teaches by Faith and Good Works, where it is known that both are essential (Romans 2:13 and 3:28, James 2:24). When I often talk to people about how both are equally important as well as complementary to each other, I often hear the Sola Fide cry, as well as a rather somewhat odd train of thought: That faith produces good works as a sign of faith. While I believe that yes, Good works are a sign of faith as well as something that completes faith, I do not think that having faith in God=doing good works. For example, in James 2:19, it is said that “even the demons believe–and shudder”. Why, if Faith = Good works, somehow not include the demon’s faith?
🤷
Although I think that this is a good example of a scriptural answer (which in no way is something of my own discovery, but of meditation and clarification by the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament-Second Catholic Edition RSV), I was wondering if anyone would have any more scripture that complements and supports this, as well as anything from Church Fathers, any Councils or Synods, or anything else? This would be much appreciated. 🙂
 
Cruxis117 said:
Hi. Have you ever talked to someone outside of the Church about Faith and works? You probably have, I know I have at least a dozen times. And, as you may have noticed, there seems to be a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church teaches by Faith and Good Works, where it is known that both are essential (Romans 2:13 and 3:28, James 2:24). When I often talk to people about how both are equally important as well as complementary to each other, I often hear the Sola Fide cry, as well as a rather somewhat odd train of thought: That faith produces good works as a sign of faith. While I believe that yes, Good works are a sign of faith as well as something that completes faith, I do not think that having faith in God=doing good works. For example, in James 2:19, it is said that “even the demons believe–and shudder”. Why, if Faith = Good works, somehow not include the demon’s faith?
🤷
Although I think that this is a good example of a scriptural answer (which in no way is something of my own discovery, but of meditation and clarification by the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament-Second Catholic Edition RSV), I was wondering if anyone would have any more scripture that complements and supports this, as well as anything from Church Fathers, any Councils or Synods, or anything else? This would be much appreciated. 🙂
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for a unifying and final answer type in - Catholic/Lutheran conference - in your search box and click and then click again - twinc
 
I beg your pardon, it seems that I do not completely understand you. You wish me to search that up on, for example, google? Or am I missing something?
 
Faith and works are synergistic. We are saved by faith alone, and we justify and grow our faith through works.
 
We are NOT saved by faith alone. The only place the phrase “faith alone” appears is James 2:24 (“You observe that a person is justified through actions and not through faith alone.”)
We are saved by grace (Eph. 2:8 - we have been saved BY GRACE through faith.)
It’s all about GOD, not about us.
We cooperate. We accept God’s gift, which we can NEVER merit.
 
Cruxis117 said:
Hi. Have you ever talked to someone outside of the Church about Faith and works? You probably have, I know I have at least a dozen times. And, as you may have noticed, there seems to be a misunderstanding of what the Catholic Church teaches by Faith and Good Works, where it is known that both are essential (Romans 2:13 and 3:28, James 2:24). When I often talk to people about how both are equally important as well as complementary to each other, I often hear the Sola Fide cry, as well as a rather somewhat odd train of thought: That faith produces good works as a sign of faith. While I believe that yes, Good works are a sign of faith as well as something that completes faith, I do not think that having faith in God=doing good works. For example, in James 2:19, it is said that “even the demons believe–and shudder”. Why, if Faith = Good works, somehow not include the demon’s faith?
🤷
Although I think that this is a good example of a scriptural answer (which in no way is something of my own discovery, but of meditation and clarification by the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament-Second Catholic Edition RSV), I was wondering if anyone would have any more scripture that complements and supports this, as well as anything from Church Fathers, any Councils or Synods, or anything else? This would be much appreciated. 🙂
Click to expand...
What did Jesus say? You will know them by their fruits, can a good tree (Christian) bear bad fruit? no Can a bad tree (non-Christian) bear good fruit? no…you will know them by their fruit. But the fruit is produced because of the “Root”. The tree is good and produces good fruit because it is attached to the “Root”.

All James is saying is the same thing Jesus said you will know them by their fruits. No one can produce an ounce of “good works” before God unless God grants them repentance, God grants them salvation and when that occurs; you will know them by the life they life in godliness and holiness? If you look like the world, act like the world, then you are the world and the love of the Father is not in you (generic “you”). That is why Paul said “examine yourselves to see if you are in the faith least you should fail the test”. I John gives a nice list of tests so that “you may know” (generic you).

(Edited)
 
Cruxis117 said:
I beg your pardon, it seems that I do not completely understand you. You wish me to search that up on, for example, google? Or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Yes - if you dont search it up you certainly are missing something and so are many others from what I gather here - twinc
 
Pat_De said:
What did Jesus say? You will know them by their fruits
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So is a Mormon a Christian?

Clearly, they produce “good fruits”. Mormons are some of the most charitable, non-drinking, non-smoking, non-cursing, non-divorcing people around. Yet they are not rooted in Christianity.

I think the above example shows that just because someone leads a good, moral life we ought not assume they’re a Christian.

Jesus’ statements ought to be taken in the fullness of the Deposit of Faith, not in isolation.
 
PRmerger said:
So is a Mormon a Christian?

Clearly, they produce “good fruits”. Mormons are some of the most charitable, non-drinking, non-smoking, non-cursing, non-divorcing people around. Yet they are not rooted in Christianity.

I think the above example shows that just because someone leads a good, moral life we ought not assume they’re a Christian.

Jesus’ statements ought to be taken in the fullness of the Deposit of Faith, not in isolation.
Click to expand...
yeah I know plenty of agnostic and atheist who you would call daily GOOD PEOPLE…but in GOD’s eyes its different.
 
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