Faith, belief, its all the same

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Magicsilence

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Help me out here.

Faith saves us right?

But what is faith? Not belief? Or is that part of faith.

What is faith?

In Christ.

Andre.
 
Faith is believing what one can not see.:)The dictionary says Faith is the theological virtue you find as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance to God’s will.
 
Faith is well defined at

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith

All are just words. Faith is not belief.

A baby learns to walk before he can read.
If he learned to read first, he may never believe he could do it.

Peter jumped out of the boat trusting Jesus, only looking down did he fail. Whe he saw what he was doing, he couldn’t believe it.

Mother Teresa fed and cared for thousands, listening to naysayers the whole time. She never believed their criticism.

Faith comes from God, for God and to God’s glory.
Belief is comes from a man’s failure to comprehend and relying on his senses.
 
****Heb 11:1-4 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
and the rest if Hebrews 11

You believe that the sky is blue and the clouds are white You can see them and someone told you what colors they were. So what today they’re gray and black No big deal so it going to rain and you miss your golf date.

You have Faith that the sun will come up in the East tomorrow after you go to bed tonight
If it came up in the West or did not come up. you and a few billion other people would really be in world of trouble.

Knowledge knows: you know that you are typing at a computer keyboard. You don’t have to believe it or have faith in it because you are doing it.

This topic could get really really philosophical real quick.
That is why it is a lot easier to take Gods Word for what Faith is then trying to figure out what it is

Now that is the why I look at things. But I believe that many people will tell you that Faith and Belief is the same thing
 
The Church has declared that most Protestant Baptisms are valid. I do not believe this to be true, but I accept the church’s position because I have faith in the magesterium.

How’s that for throwing a monkey wrench into the works?

Thal59
 
The Apostle, St James, tells us what Saving Faith is in the book of James:

James 2

14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15: If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16: And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17: Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19: Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20: But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22: Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23: And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25: Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26: For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

St Paul, in his epistle to the Philippians also tells us what Faith is:

Philippians 2:12

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

In the Gospel of Matthew Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
 
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Thal59:
The Church has declared that most Protestant Baptisms are valid. I do not believe this to be true, but I accept the church’s position because I have faith in the magesterium.

How’s that for throwing a monkey wrench into the works?

Thal59
Click to expand...
Thal,

Of course they are valid, and so are all Trinitarian baptisms. It is not us performing the baptism but the Lord working through us as measely humans. The early church solved this dillema along time ago saying that heretics or apostates could administer baptism as long as they had the intent of baptising in the name of the Lord (Father, Son & Holy Spirit).
 
I don’t always think he *always * gets his facts 100% straight, (but he is usually pretty decent) but JP Holding at tektonics.org seems to come to the Catholic idea that faith is belief+obedience+loyalty by his study of Hebraic culture.
 
I’ve always thought of belief as an exersise of the mind. Faith, on the other hand, is something in our hearts. To me, that is the difference.
 
Semper Fi:
Thal,

Of course they are valid, and so are all Trinitarian baptisms. It is not us performing the baptism but the Lord working through us as measely humans. The early church solved this dillema along time ago saying that heretics or apostates could administer baptism as long as they had the intent of baptising in the name of the Lord (Father, Son & Holy Spirit).
Click to expand...
I understand the church’s position. I would say I agree with 99% of what the church teaches. But what should I do about the 1%? Leave the church? Throw stones at it? Seperate and start my own denomination?

But since part of that 99% is my belief that the RCC is the one, holy, and apostolic church - then faith in what the Lord and the apostles established makes up for the 1% that is lacking.

Perhaps this is the answer that Magicsilence first asked for. When people go from one denomination to another they are trading faith for belief. The problem is… it is faith that breeds loyalty, beliefs do not.

Thal59
 
The Catechism says that faith is an act of the will in which one turns toward God and away from sin; in which we decide that we will cooperate, with our intellect and will, with the divine grace that God gives us to enable us to comply with the moral law; it is a free response of the human person to the initiative of God; it is a personal adherence of the whole man to the God who reveals himself.

These are all actions, things we do in obedience to God. Thus the Apostle Paul says in Romans 1:5 "Through Him we have received the grace of apostleship, to bring about the obedience of faith…” This obedience is the essence of Christianity: submission to the Eternal One who was enfleshed, and through that submission being brought into union with Him so that we may participate in His divine life.**
 
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