Faith formation classes after first communion?

[Usige]

Watered down and glossed over are non-issues, there is no reason one can’t take the books provided by the parish and add to the material. The material provided is a base for you to work off of, this is what I did when I went this route. Cost is also something that shouldn’t be an issue, if you can’t afford to pay for it you won’t have to (if I’m not mistaken canon law forbids it in the case of Sacraments) if you can afford to pay why shouldn’t you, particularly if it helps pay for those who can’t?

As to home schooling families, I doubt they are treated differently than families whose children are enrolled in public schools and thus have to go through the parish RE and may want to do home RE.

Would you spend $500 a year buying clothes you know wouldn’t fit you? Would you then continue to buy the same clothes every year (that you wouldn’t wear) despite having 3 identical copies hanging in your closet? If I was the parish secretary and said I require you to buy a $300 veil and would tell father to deny confession if I didn’t see you wearing it to my satisfaction at mass would you be offended? The point being these all focus on externals not the purpose of each action. In the case of the veil it represents punitive actions for not following an external requirement.

As for homeschooling the point was not about different standards for secular verus homeschooled, but rather that those with religious education at hom are held to a higher standard. When my wife and I were catechists we were not allowed to quiz the kids. We spent half the time making popsicle art or felt banners. When they suggested my eldest son complete RE at home (after denying our request to do so in the first place) they had a coniption fit because he missed a word in the our father. On the otherhand when I taught confirmation prep a kid who said Jesus was just a good guy was okay as long as he didn’t miss too many classes.

My issue is inconsistency. In our parish kids that go to the prep … err catholic school are exempt from attending RE. A number of families in the parish have a homeschool co-op that meets at the parish every week. The kids (20+) attend daily mass together once a week. Once a month they have a homeschool addoration hour. The parents have time set aside once a month for confession. Based on this we asked if the kids could be exempt as they did as much or more as the kids in the school. The DREs answer? No, because it doesn’t meet our requirements.What are the requirements? No reply.

I am fine with standards, but then they should be clear and consistent regardless if the kids are educated in a catholic school, parish RE, or at home. Those standards also should not be based on externals (curriculum X and 15 classes) but rather on understanding. I am fine quizing the kids, but then quiz them all the same way, not just those that haven’t put in BIST (butt in seat time).

 

[Joannm]

Watered down and glossed over are non-issues, there is no reason one can’t take the books provided by the parish and add to the material. The material provided is a base for you to work off of, this is what I did when I went this route. Cost is also something that shouldn’t be an issue, if you can’t afford to pay for it you won’t have to (if I’m not mistaken canon law forbids it in the case of Sacraments) if you can afford to pay why shouldn’t you, particularly if it helps pay for those who can’t?

As to home schooling families, I doubt they are treated differently than families whose children are enrolled in public schools and thus have to go through the parish RE and may want to do home RE.

I am not talking about homeschooled children but about public school children whose parents decide to homeschool for Religion just because classes don’t fit into their children’s sports schedule or they don’t like driving up to the school at 4:30 in the afternoon.

 

[1ke]

I am not talking about homeschooled children but about public school children whose parents decide to homeschool for Religion just because classes don’t fit into their children’s sports schedule or they don’t like driving up to the school at 4:30 in the afternoon.

which is their perogative. They don’t need a reason to home school religion, it is their natural right as parents.

 

[PatriceA]

Would you spend $500 a year buying clothes you know wouldn’t fit you? Would you then continue to buy the same clothes every year (that you wouldn’t wear) despite having 3 identical copies hanging in your closet? If I was the parish secretary and said I require you to buy a $300 veil and would tell father to deny confession if I didn’t see you wearing it to my satisfaction at mass would you be offended? The point being these all focus on externals not the purpose of each action. In the case of the veil it represents punitive actions for not following an external requirement.

As for homeschooling the point was not about different standards for secular verus homeschooled, but rather that those with religious education at hom are held to a higher standard. When my wife and I were catechists we were not allowed to quiz the kids. We spent half the time making popsicle art or felt banners. When they suggested my eldest son complete RE at home (after denying our request to do so in the first place) they had a coniption fit because he missed a word in the our father. On the otherhand when I taught confirmation prep a kid who said Jesus was just a good guy was okay as long as he didn’t miss too many classes.

My issue is inconsistency. In our parish kids that go to the prep … err catholic school are exempt from attending RE. A number of families in the parish have a homeschool co-op that meets at the parish every week. The kids (20+) attend daily mass together once a week. Once a month they have a homeschool addoration hour. The parents have time set aside once a month for confession. Based on this we asked if the kids could be exempt as they did as much or more as the kids in the school. The DREs answer? No, because it doesn’t meet our requirements.What are the requirements? No reply.

I am fine with standards, but then they should be clear and consistent regardless if the kids are educated in a catholic school, parish RE, or at home. Those standards also should not be based on externals (curriculum X and 15 classes) but rather on understanding. I am fine quizing the kids, but then quiz them all the same way, not just those that haven’t put in BIST (butt in seat time).

I can’t imagine paying $500! Our program is $35/student.

I agree with rest of your points. I’m all for consistency, all over the board…homeschool, parish school, CCD program. Our experience, the CCD kids knew more than the parish school kids did at my daughter’s First Communion prep classes when they combined them for a few sessions. It was the beginning of our thinking that the parish school really wasn’t doing their job at faith formation, our daughter was in the parish school.

There are a few homeschooling families in our parish, there has never been a problem with them doing their own faith formation program with our priest and DRE. They are included in any parish wide or inter parish activities appropriate for their age, such as the Confirmation retreat coming up for the 8th graders.

Personally my daughter has benefitted from attending the CCD program, we have 6 public school districts that feed into our parish. If anything, it has given her the opportunity for fellowship with other Catholics her own age that she wouldn’t have met otherwise. But I’m all for parents making the decision that best benefits their family and their needs when it comes to faith formation. I think what Joannm is pointing out though is that there are families that say they are going to do faith formation at home, but don’t always follow through and then expect their child to be ready to receive their sacraments on time and then pitch a fit when they are told they may be delayed or need to do “catch up” classes. Seen that happen a few times in our own parish.

 

[maryjk]

I am not talking about homeschooled children but about public school children whose parents decide to homeschool for Religion just because classes don’t fit into their children’s sports schedule or they don’t like driving up to the school at 4:30 in the afternoon.

Actually you are talking about any student not in the program at your parish. Aren’t you? You never differentiated between “home schooled” students and parents that wanted to “home school” for Religious Ed.

Regardless, what difference does it make? Are there reasons that you hear that you accept? The OP has younger children, is pregnant and can’t drive. Her husband works nights. Is her reason good enough? Or is she just another parent that doesn’t want to drive to the church at 4:30?

I am sure you feel picked on Joannm. But most of us are tired of DRE or whatever they are called at our parish that act like THEY are the only ones that know how to properly teach a child about Catholicism. Then those same DREs plop our child into a classroom with a volunteer teacher that is literally just like us, a Mom. But somehow, because she is using the golden book, and has warmed a seat at “teacher’s meetings” she is the only one that the DRE trusts to teach.

Then you talk about testing children that haven’t been in your classrooms. Do you also test those that are in class? Have you ever held a student back? Or just because their parents drag them to class, they get promoted? Does the pastor withhold the sacrament if the classroom kids can’t answer all of the questions? Or does that only happen to the home school kids?

Do you see where we are coming from? Can you understand why your posts have struck a nerve?

 

[Marysann]

I understand where Joannm is coming from. Several years ago when I was living in the States, I worked part time in our parish CCD office. I also taught a third grade CCD class. I had about 8 children in my class. I had access to all of the class lists so I knew how many third graders were in our entire program. There were fewer than 20. Over 50 children had made the First Holy Communion the previous school year. Where were the rest of these kids? Not that many children went to Catholic schools or were formally homeschooled. Our office would provide the Faith and Life Series books for parents who want to teach their children at home. I would most likely been the one to give the parents the books. Not many asked for them. Parents DO have a right teach their children the faith, but are they doing it? All the these children will return during the next sacramental year. Our experience showed that the parents were not teaching them what they needed to know. These children need to know the faith. Their Protestant friends at school know theirs. Eternal souls are at stake. DRE’s do not make the rules. Pastors make them, and they are concerned about the eternal salvation of these children.

 

[Usige]

I can’t imagine paying $500! Our program is $35/student.

Guess I should clarify. Our parish program is $65/student and generally another $30-40 per year for various required activities. In confirmation prep years its closer to $250 because they have a $140 confirmation retreat (both years) and a required work camp that’s something like $40. When you have 4, 5+ kids you are writing $400-500+ a year to cover all your kids just so they get the same book. We have friends that have 5 in the RE age range (youngest in 1st eucharist, oldest confirmation prep). If they sent all 5 to RE they would be looking at around $650-700 this year. You can get a 20% discount if your kid is in your class. Guess how likely it is that all your kids would be in your class? Zero if you have more than one or two.

The DRE I am thinking of is a retired teacher. She implies that those that home school should be charged with child neglect. Her reasoning is that teachers have degrees in education and no one without certification could possibly be able to understand how to teach children without a license. She told one parent that hair stylist require a license so why should we allow uneducated parents to teach children (that uneducated parent has a masters in microbiology).

 

[englishredrose]

Yes, children should have regular religious education every year, not just before first communion and confirmation. Look at the terrible lack of knowledge most young Catholics today have of their faith. I understand how awkward night class attendance can be for some. There should be options for learning at home and/or transportation.

not just children through observing a lack of knowledge shown by what questions are asked through people of these boards

 

[PatriceA]

Guess I should clarify. Our parish program is $65/student and generally another $30-40 per year for various required activities. In confirmation prep years its closer to $250 because they have a $140 confirmation retreat (both years) and a required work camp that’s something like $40. When you have 4, 5+ kids you are writing $400-500+ a year to cover all your kids just so they get the same book. We have friends that have 5 in the RE age range (youngest in 1st eucharist, oldest confirmation prep). If they sent all 5 to RE they would be looking at around $650-700 this year. You can get a 20% discount if your kid is in your class. Guess how likely it is that all your kids would be in your class? Zero if you have more than one or two.

The DRE I am thinking of is a retired teacher. She implies that those that home school should be charged with child neglect. Her reasoning is that teachers have degrees in education and no one without certification could possibly be able to understand how to teach children without a license. She told one parent that hair stylist require a license so why should we allow uneducated parents to teach children (that uneducated parent has a masters in microbiology).

Wow, our confirmation retreat is $10/student. Other activities are free.

 

[maryjk]

Wow, our confirmation retreat is $10/student. Other activities are free.

Ours was $140.

NOTHING is free.

In other words, you HAVE to send your child and you HAVE to pay for the privilege.

 

[1ke]

But most of us are tired of DRE or whatever they are called at our parish that act like THEY are the only ones that know how to properly teach a child about Catholicism.

Yep. 100% agree. I run into DREs all the time at diocesan training who are too big for their britches.

And just for the record, I AM the DRE for my parish.

 

[1ke]

Wow, our confirmation retreat is $10/student. Other activities are free.

Everything related to religious ed at our parish is free, including all confirmation and FHC stuff.

 

[Gena]

I am not talking about homeschooled children but about public school children whose parents decide to homeschool for Religion just because classes don’t fit into their children’s sports schedule or they don’t like driving up to the school at 4:30 in the afternoon.

Do you know for a fact that this is why the parents are choosing to homeschool for religion and are you saying that those are not valid reasons for their decision? Are your RE classes at 4:30pm on a weekday? That seems like an awkward time. What about families where the parents are still at work at that time?

My son attends public school and I homeschool him for religion. Our parish’s RE program is very good, but it is not appropriate for my son. The catechists are wonderful people, very faithful and kind. But they are parent volunteers and they do not have the training or experience needed to teach my son, who had autism, visual impairments, and mild cognitive delays. We tried having him the RE class and it was difficult for everyone. He will not accept me staying in class with him. The DRE found an “aide” to help him - a teenager with no training. They were content to let him sit in the corner and draw trains all hour if that kept him quiet and still. He was not learning what he needed.

I pulled him from the classroom program and switched him to home study and found materials that were more appropriate for his learning style. We cover topics in an order and depth that make sense for him and in a way that he can learn it. He made his First Holy Communion last year and I wept with joy during the mass.

There are lots of reasons parents might choose to homeschool their children for religion. It’s not up to the RE staff to decide if those reasons are valid.

 

[Joannm]

Do you know for a fact that this is why the parents are choosing to homeschool for religion and are you saying that those are not valid reasons for their decision? Are your RE classes at 4:30pm on a weekday? That seems like an awkward time. What about families where the parents are still at work at that time?

My son attends public school and I homeschool him for religion. Our parish’s RE program is very good, but it is not appropriate for my son. The catechists are wonderful people, very faithful and kind. But they are parent volunteers and they do not have the training or experience needed to teach my son, who had autism, visual impairments, and mild cognitive delays. We tried having him the RE class and it was difficult for everyone. He will not accept me staying in class with him. The DRE found an “aide” to help him - a teenager with no training. They were content to let him sit in the corner and draw trains all hour if that kept him quiet and still. He was not learning what he needed.

I pulled him from the classroom program and switched him to home study and found materials that were more appropriate for his learning style. We cover topics in an order and depth that make sense for him and in a way that he can learn it. He made his First Holy Communion last year and I wept with joy during the mass.

There are lots of reasons parents might choose to homeschool their children for religion. It’s not up to the RE staff to decide if those reasons are valid.

Our parents have to write a letter to the pastor requesting to homeschool for religion. I see the reasons why. A lot has to do with sports. We have sessions at three different times on two different days. Many parents car pool.

These aren’t my rules. These come from the bishop’s office and he particularly pointed out our parish as one that has too many homeschooled for religion. I am new at this parish. In my old parish only a few parents homeschooled for very legitimate reasons, including learning disabilities. The pastor was asked to correct what the bishop saw as a problem, which I inherited and am now asked to rectify the situation.

 

[babochka]

Everything related to religious ed at our parish is free, including all confirmation and FHC stuff.

Which is, in my opinion, the way that it should be. I realize that most (all?) parishes make provisions for those who cannot afford it to have the fees waived, but for many people, even asking for a fee waiver presents a barrier to enrolling in the classes. It seems that the religious education of our children is an expense rightfully borne by the parish as a whole.

 

[maryjk]

Our parents have to write a letter to the pastor requesting to homeschool for religion. I see the reasons why. A lot has to do with sports. We have sessions at three different times on two different days. Many parents car pool.

I guess I still don’t get this.

Lets say I am a parent of a child at your parish. My son has made his 1st Communion, and is in 4th grade.

Along comes the time to register. I don’t. I just don’t send in the paperwork or money. I ignore the mailings.

I would guess you would call me. And I tell you, no I am not registering my child in your classes. Just being very matter of fact. No confrontation, no yelling, just, no I am not sending my child.

What happens then? You maybe tell me that I have to write a letter to the bishop telling him what I am doing. Okay, so I don’t write the letter. Maybe I say, Fine, whatever. Or may I tell you straight up, no. Either way I say, thank you, I do not want to be part of your program.

What do you do then?

I really would like to know. And what do you do if I am also home schooling my child for school. In other words, he doesn’t go to public or private school, he stays home.

 

[Joannm]

When the times comes for preparation for Confirmation and you register you would either have to meet with me or the pastor and the child has to be interviewed. This happens with the kids in the Catholic school and with the religious ed kids too. If they show that they are not ready they don’t receive Confirmation that year. Our Confirmation program is two years, so if you didn’t attend since 1st Communion you have to show that you have done religious education with your child or they go to a catch up class. If you are a regular church going family and involved in the parish, the pastor is sure to know you and the children.

 

[PatriceA]

When the times comes for preparation for Confirmation and you register you would either have to meet with me or the pastor and the child has to be interviewed. This happens with the kids in the Catholic school and with the religious ed kids too. If they show that they are not ready they don’t receive Confirmation that year. Our Confirmation program is two years, so if you didn’t attend since 1st Communion you have to show that you have done religious education with your child or they go to a catch up class. If you are a regular church going family and involved in the parish, the pastor is sure to know you and the children.

Which is what takes place in my parish as well. Hence why I mentioned in my previous post that some families have pitched a fit when they opted out of the faith formation classes for a few years and then their child can’t meet the requirements as the other students preparing for confirmation and they are told they will have to postpone confirmation or attend “catch up” classes. First Communion never seems to be the problem, just confirmation.

I have no doubt there are families that are very capable of teaching their children at home. But there is no denying though there are some families that have all the best intentions in the world but for one reason or another, don’t follow through with home instruction and then get upset when the priest has determined their children are just not prepared to receive the sacraments with their peers.

 

[KS_Housewife]

Would you or other Religious Ed directors be more willing to accept homeschooled religious education is the parents used a text or course approved by the diocese and used something online with scoring? I have looked into a program that appears to have online scoring, and if they could provide me with a tabulation, would that be more credible to directors? I’m recently reconverted, but my baptized children are not, but I’m still responsible as a Christian for their education and, of course, to teach a western child about the Christian faith one would be exposing them to the Catholic church in history, belief and practice, which is my belief. I am concerned about putting them into the classroom program since they will be playing catchup with a bunch of kids in a program focused on sacrament production. I thought an online program would be a reliable way of teaching required material and supplementing other things I do, such as reading the Bible and studying Christian ethics in dealing with others (eg The Christian Girl’s Guide.)

 

[Rachel126]

Depending on where you live, you might look into options at neighboring parishes. In my parish, faith formation classes are on sunday mornings after mass. This is very convenient for us. Parents drop the kids off at class after mass and then can either have coffee and chat or maybe go run a quick errand (or go home if they live very close). They are willing to take non-parishioner children if for whatever reason their parents prefer our setup. If you live in a city of any size, you can likely find a parish that has a program that works with your schedule. One parish near me holds their faith formation as a 2 week intensive program in the summer.