Faith healing

[prodigalson12]

My uncle is dying of cancer, he survived a bout a couple of years ago, it returned with a vengeance a year later and he was already too weak for kemo and radiation, so is now taking some other medicines and he’s steadily going down hill. It started out in his thyroid originally, it’s spread through other parts of his body and he’s suffering dearly and likely, this time next year I doubt he’s not going to be around observing the progression and he’s living longer then what the doctors gave him regardless up until now.

I would like you guys to keep him in your prayers, but I’m also really wanting to be able to help further and this comes down to me seriously considering faith healing, even if I have to be the one to administer it, at least I have to give it a shot. The apostles were healing during their days, it has been done through the ages, why not in this case, why not now? Anything and all things you guys can point me to resource wise in this area would be greatly appreciated.

 

[4EverHis]

you can pray for his healing, just leave the results to God, remember, He knows what is best

try praying to St Padre Pio…perhaps a novena… he healed MANY people in miraculous ways during his life.

God bless

 

[ccolley2]

My uncle is dying of cancer, he survived a bout a couple of years ago, it returned with a vengeance a year later and he was already too weak for kemo and radiation, so is now taking some other medicines and he’s steadily going down hill. It started out in his thyroid originally, it’s spread through other parts of his body and he’s suffering dearly and likely, this time next year I doubt he’s not going to be around observing the progression and he’s living longer then what the doctors gave him regardless up until now.

I would like you guys to keep him in your prayers, but I’m also really wanting to be able to help further and this comes down to me seriously considering faith healing, even if I have to be the one to administer it, at least I have to give it a shot. The apostles were healing during their days, it has been done through the ages, why not in this case, why not now? Anything and all things you guys can point me to resource wise in this area would be greatly appreciated.

Go to www.savior.org and put his name on a prayer intention list.
I will pray for him, and for you, too.

CC

 

[Cluny]

What do you think the Sacrament of Holy Unction is all about?

If your uncle is Catholic or Orthodox, have him anointed!

 

[Kalos]

Hi Prodigal:
I want to give you some hope here, because i know there really is hope. Jesus is the same today as 2000 yrs ago. Nothing has changed. except we have changed. But we can still learn and recover something of the power of the early church. This is what God wills for us. I have been learning much about lately.
Now, there are some people to whom God gives the special charism of healing. But you do not need this to effect healing. Just a mustard seed faith will do if you have correct knowledge.
First, you need to understand that cancer or any disease is not from God. He is not the author of any illness.
Second, you need to know that that Jesus wants for unc to be well more than you do.

Third, you need to understand that everything we receive from God is based on the promises in His holy word. Receiving healing is no different than receiving salvation or forgiveness. You receive by faith in whatever His word promises. Here is were we need to do some studying.
Forth, know that our healing is already an accomplished fact, just like salvation. All one must do is receive it. 1Pt. 2:24 says that “by HIs stripes we were healed”. God’s word never fails. It is more true and more real than anything in the world. His word is greater than cancer.

Fifth, The Word has no effect until a disciple speaks it with authority. Then it becomes activated. It becomes a Rhema word. Sickness must obey. Demons must obey. Mountains must move. About 100 years ago, a man by the name of John Graham Lake got ahold of these principles and started a healing ministry in Spokane WA . He trained a team of ministers to go out and help people. He told them not to come back until the person was healed. The longest it ever took was three weeks. During this period before WW1, Spokane was declared the healthiest city in the nation. There were over 100,000 documented healings. One of the two hospitals shut down for lack of business. Today there is still a ministry that has decended from it called The Healing Rooms. We have one here in Grand Rapids. Perhaps there is one near you.

If you study Mt. 17 about moving your mountain (the mountain of cancer in your case) you will notice that Jesus did not say to pray about it. He said to speak to it. This asumes that you are prayed up (prayer changes you) and that you have a close working relationship with Jesus and understand your sonship (you are an heir) and your authority.

I know that without any doubt that this works because i have been using it on myself. I have not had any cold or flue in over 2 yrs. when i got tired of always suffering thru a lot of colds every year. I do not and will not get a flue shot. The last time i was sick i chased off the virus with the powerful name of Jesus and His word. For a whole day i spoke to it loudly and harshly and commanded it to go. I told the virus that it is a curse and that it has no place in my body because Jesus has taken the curse for me. Confess that Jesus is lord of your body and not the virus (or the cancer)

There are so many more things to know but i can’t go into much here, but i would like to give you some good resources where i have learned much.
I first learned about authority of the believer from the radio program “Gospel Truth with Andrew Wommack” He is a great teacher who takes it slow and walks you thru each step. All shows are archived at the website which is www.awmi.net. I would highly recommend his book on “Unbelief” Also you will see a new one on “Authority”. The TV show recently had many personal testimonies of healing. There was also a teaching on “why some do not receive”.

Another place with much info is www.sidroth.org. The radio program this week is about healing, and there are more on the archive.

Another thing that brings healing is praise and worship music. It can literally change the atmosphere. Sid has some excelent CDs available.

Yet another resourse that is untapped by the church is the power of daily communion. It is a great gift that Jesus has given to His church. Yes, communion is for healing. Search the radio archive at Sid Roth to find his interview with Ana Mendez Ferell. (6-10-07). It is really powerful. Just 2 weeks ago God gave a word at our church that he would heal a young brother who has MS thru daily communion. He was our keyboard player until the condition made his hands too unsteady to play, but praise God, he was back to playing last sunday.

God bless you for your effort to help unc. let me know how it goes.

 

[4EverHis]

I don’t know if I agree that God is always against someone having an illness. Suffering and illness themselves don’t come from God and are the result of sin in the world… but He does often use them. That’s why He allows suffering… for the greater good of our souls. Many Saints died from long, painful illnesses, and that was not because they didn’t have enough faith, but because they were sharing in His Cross. They recognized that and accepted God’s will in their situation. God even used their suffering to help convert sinners. It’s true that “by His stripes we are healed”, but that refers more to spiritual healing, imo, - Jesus heals our souls…and sometimes suffering is what helps a person turn to Him.

I’m not saying that in the case of the OP, God doesn’t want to heal Prodigalson’s uncle. In fact, I’d encourage the OP to keep on praying for healing and yes I do believe that God can heal. As Padre Pio said, “pray, hope, and don’t worry…God is merciful and will hear your prayer”. Many have been healed by miracle, simply because they asked or someone asked for them.

But I’ve also known people who got angry at God when their prayers weren’t answered in the way they wished. We must always trust in God’s goodness and that He knows what the best way is… and that sometimes, suffering is the best way, for our souls. God’s ways are not like our ways.

Whatever happens, we should have the same response that Jesus had in the Garden: “Father let Your will be done, not Mine.” If God answers to a prayer by healing someone, it’s right to rejoice and to thank Him. If He answers in another way, it is still His will and He’ll get us through the difficult times by His own strength. I don’t believe that people who get sick are those who have little faith… one of my favourite Saints, St Therese, had great faith yet she died of tuberculosis, and that was her martyrdom and way to holiness. Before she died, she said that she’s unable to suffer anymore because all suffering is sweet to her…because for her it was sharing in Christ’s Cross. Suffering can become an opportunity to love, or to learn how to love - in a way that’s not reliant on feelings.

That being said, I do hope and pray that God would heal the OP’s uncle, and grant him many years. And I’d say, don’t stop praying, and have hope, because hope and faith is what gives our prayers merits and makes them effective. When we pray without faith, or with little faith, our prayers are less effective.

I believe that miracles happen because of God’s mercy…ask Jesus for His compassion and ask Him to help your uncle. He might help him by healing him of cancer, or He might help him spiritually. Get a Mass offered for Him. Pray to Our Lady. We can’t “make” miracles happen… no matter how much we try. When a person is healed through prayer, they’re healed by God, not by the prayer. The sickness goes away because God makes it go away, not our words. I don’t think we have that ability. Just my opinion that I wanted to share, not to debate…

Another good thing to do is to persevere in prayer… don’t just pray once or twice, but for a long time, and repeatedly. In other words, keep on praying and don’t give up or get discouraged. This also makes our intercession more powerful. Just keep on asking… maybe do a novena. Have you ever heard of the Irresistible Novena of Rosaries… you do it 27 days in petition, and 27 days in thanksgiving, whether or not the request has been granted. It’s a huge commitment but I’ve heard it’s powerful because it shows real perseverence.

I agree with Kalos that the Eucharist can really help… I’ve heard this really awesome story one time, about this man who was suffering from an illness… and his friends or someone brought him to the church and he went up for Communion. He could barely walk. But once he received Our Lord, suddenly he was healed! I’ve also heard about a woman being healed of cancer after praying with her priest before the Tabernacle. …Remember Jesus in the Tabernacle is the same Jesus who healed people 2000 years ago, He is physically present there, and He can heal people in this way if it is His will and if we pray.

I know that my post might seem contradictory, - like I’m first saying that God allows suffering, and then I’m talking about healing… but that’s how I see it… that both can be for His glory. Accept God’s will and give Him thanks. And pray as much as you can for your uncle, and have hope and faith.

God bless

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Very good post, 4EverHis. This “sharing the Cross” is something many Protestants don’t learn that much about, in general. It is a strong emphasis in Catholicism, but something that in my experience tends to be largely misunderstood and/or ignored and deemphasized outside of Catholicism. Non-Catholics don’t tend to see the value of suffering as Catholics have, and as the Catholic Church does. God does use sickness to achieve His own glory. Just this morning I was reading from Isaiah how He would put a “wasting sickness” in the Assyrians (a brutal empire of the past) to bring Himself glory. When asked why a man was sick, Jesus said this was done so God’s glory might be revealed in his life. Which implies again that God can have a hand in using sickness to His glory.

It’s worth remembering that the Gospel of Luke was written by a doctor. In the Catholic Church, we did not strip the canon of the Bible of 7 books like the Protestant Reformers did, so we still have the Book of Sirach, which has a full chapter devoted to praising how God uses physicians and medical science. This doesn’t mean God doesn’t also heal through miracles at times, but it does mean there is absolutely no reason to turn away from medical science (unless it has failed), for He uses this to heal as well.

One of my uncles tried faith healing for 7 years, not using glasses because he was trusting God to heal his near-sightedness. People around him told him that the reason he wasn’t being healed for all that time was because he lacked sufficient faith, but he kept waiting in hope until finally he gave up.

The mother of a friend of mine trusted in faith healing for her eyes throughout the last probably ten years of her life. She died without ever receiving back her sight.

I’ve heard of parents who refused to provide medical attention to their sick children because they were trusting in faith healing, in God alone to provide the healing, and the sick children died because of illnesses a doctor could easily have cured.

On the other hand, my grandmother has had experiences with faith healing and trusts in it, and she’s hale and healthy into her old age when all other people in her senior home are on prescription drugs and using walkers to get around. Also, this grandmother has witnessed great miracles performed through faith healing, such as people with disorders of having mismatched leg lengths have one leg grow to match the length of the other, or one leg shrink to match the other’s size. So she’s seen and been through a lot and relies on faith healing. Though I believe in the last year she’s started to consider medical help.

I had a period in my life for about five or six years where I never got sick at all, but I think this was because I wasn’t in contact with many people that would pass on germs. The Lord is in charge of all I experience in life and I seek to accept whatever He gives me, so of course He’s responsible for my having been well that long, but I don’t think this was a supernatural miracle. I’m not saying He isn’t protecting your health. I don’t know if He is or not. I’m just saying the fact that you haven’t been sick for two years isn’t necessarily proof that faith healing is at work, though certainly it might be. And whether it is or not, you can rightly thank God .

I’ve tried faith healing before for myself, and in my experience, God has given it to me when I need it, especially when it would be useful to His Body. For instance, there was a time when I was responsible for speaking at a youth group and had a severe cold, so I prayed and the Lord healed me immediately so that I could do His work. And for several days He cured my allergies while I was at Mass, so that the faithful could pray and meditate in peace. However, after that initial period of grace (which He granted me on my request), it dawned on me that there was a lot I could do to control my noise level on my own, and since then He’s allowed me to experience the allergies again. The reason I asked Him for that grace in the first place, which is that the faithful may experience God in peace, is still fulfilled.

On other occasions, when it would simply be a convenience to me to have the healing but wouldn’t bless His Body in any way, He allows me to just have the cold or flu. I don’t pray for healing much at all anymore, because I’ve increasingly come to see the value of offering any sufferings I receive up to God. I am more blessed when I am sick than when I am healthy.

United with His Sacrifice on the Cross, illness can achieve the same merits that fasting does (and I do all through the Immaculate Heart of Mary, for maximum impact), healing other people through my sufferings, especially their souls, which is far more important than whatever God sees fit to happen to my body.

Fasting is built on this very idea, the idea that through our willingness to suffer for others’ sake, God may unleash great graces upon Earth.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

II Corinthians 12:7-10 says, “To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.’ Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.”

Illness is one more “hardship,” one more weakness we should aspire to appreciating as Paul does, taking delight in it. It can be a great thing for us when God takes it away. It is an even greater thing for us to take it on with submission, humbly thanking God for whatever experience He chooses to give us, for it says in Romans 8:28, “We know that all things work for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.”

All things work for good for those who love God. This includes sickness.

Martyrdom is built on the same idea. Martyrs, according to St. Paul, receive a great crown of righteousness in Heaven. Consider this: Would it not have been a great thing if when Paul was facing the wild beasts in the arena, God had performed a miracle to strike all of Paul’s attackers and free him from the hands of the Romans? It would have undeniably been a great thing! It was when God closed the lions’ mouths to save the Prophet Daniel, a story that inspires God’s followers to trust in Him to this day!

Yet a far greater thing was accomplished by Paul’s offering up his life. People saw his martyrdom and their hearts were touched by the courage God inspires his followers with. People were impacted by his suffering in a positive way, their souls drawn to Christ, and through his suffering, Paul’s soul was brought close to Christ’s Cross in a way few believers will ever be able to imagine. Paul gained a great crown, the crown of the martyrs. He could not have received so great a grace if God always saved him from distress.

Here’s one more scripture that we Catholics find extremely valuable in facing this whole issue of suffering, and taking it on rather than trying to dodge it.

Colossians 1:24 says, “Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his Body, which is the Church.”

What is lacking in Christ’s sufferings on the Cross? Paul says that something is. It is simply this: We are one with Christ, and as Christ’s Body, we must suffer the Cross just as His body suffered it. We will be resurrected because we are one with Christ and Christ rose. We must suffer the cross because we are one with Christ and Christ died. All that is lacking in Christ’s sufferings is the lack of suffering in His Body on Earth. This suffering, because we are one with Christ, can be offered up in Him and with Him for the salvation of the world. Fasting is one way in which this suffering is experienced, martyrdom another, and illness can be still one more, if we have the spiritual strength from the Spirit to embrace it in that way. This is easy for me, because I’ve only had to suffer colds and such, no gigantic medical traumas that would have a million times greater impact in Heaven.

How much are we willing to give up for God? It is not prosperity or health or any goods of this world that we should strive for, for these are passing. Rather, all we should desire is the glory of God and the salvation of souls.

 

[Kalos]

I just want to commend you Prodigal for wanting to help uncle. i know it is in God’s will. Do not be discouraged by other posters. Be encouraged by God’s word. The bible says that Jesus healed ALL who came to Him. Do not pray an “if it be your will” prayer as one poster said. Know and believe that it is God’s will. This is very important. You do not need great faith as one poster suggested. But you must banish unbelief. It is usually not a faith problem that blocks healing, but an unbelief problem. The book i suggested by Andrew Wommack is titled “Hardness of Heart”. Believe me this could really help you. It was the problem that the apostles kept having. Fasting is a key to victory in this because it helps to break us loose from attachments to things in the world and that alone gives us more spiritual power. Andrew tells an example of how he had prayed for a paralysed man in a wheelchair at a meeting. He prayed for him and helped him to stand up and he just fell over and hurt himself. Andrew was greatly embarrased but later he continued to ask God why. He found it was “hardness of heart” Another reason people do not receive is because they have a “back-up plan”. This is also illustrated in the book. Again, it is available at www.awmi.net.

One poster spoke of eyes not being healed. Yes, i am familiar with this problem. it seems to be something of a mystery why eyes are often not healed. There are some theories here. The things that are the easiest to heal seem to be those things that have not been with us long such as colds, flue, measles, and other infections. But we have had our bad eyes for a long time and we know we can still work with them. We have formed an attachment to them. Wigglesworth was a man of great faith who lived a long and productive life without any health problems that he could not overcome except for poor eyesight which he could never effect healing for. Even the great Wigglesworth did not understand this. He never had any trouble at all healing cancer or raising the dead. Of course, Wigglesworth had the gift of healing, but the reason it always worked for him is that he would not be moved by anything that he saw. He believed only the Word of God exclusively. I think it would also be worth your time to read the book “Wigglesworth on Healing”. It is available on Amazon.com.

I would like to re-emphasize that what you want to do most fundamentally is to know the promises of healing in scripture and stand firmly on them. This is where the power is. Healing is the same as salvation. “The gospel is the power of God unto salvation” Rm.1:16. Salvation is an accomplished fact. Healing is the same. The reason we need salvation is sin. The reason for sickness and disease is sin. Let me ask you, did not Jesus gain complete victory over sin on the cross and in resurrection? Did He not regain everything that Adam lost? Did Adam suffer any health problems before the fall? Please see that both salvation and health are our blessed inheritance in Christ. Do not let anyone convince you otherwise.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

The Bible never says God will provide miracles to heal anyone, even if it is against His will.

What you’re contending, Kalos, is that it is always God’s will for people to be healed of illness. I don’t remember any Bible passage that says this. Also, Jesus did not cure everyone who had faith. The thief being crucified at His side had faith, yet Jesus cleansed the man’s spiritual wounds, not his physical ones. “By His wounds we are healed,” has a principally spiritual interpretation, and there is no passage that says it is always God’s will to heal every sickness. Your tradition of belief on this matter is extra-biblical.

Also, you’re forgetting the scene where the paralyzed man was brought before Jesus, and Jesus said to him, “Your sins are forgiven.” Then, when He saw the Pharisees doubting His power to forgive sins, He said, “so that you will know the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins . . .” and then He healed the paralyzed man physically. He did this in order to prove to people His power to forgive sins. Jesus’ principle purpose is to heal the spiritual wounds. Physical wounds or illnesses are secondary, and if people can patiently accept them from God like Job did when he was afflicted with sickness, rather than seeking physical healing all the time, putting their own flesh first, this is the higher road.

I made too many points in my last couple posts for you to respond to them all, I guess.

But here’s another point. Why would God always be ready to hand out miracles to prevent His children from having colds or getting the flu, but not always be ready to hand out miracles to stop His children starving to death or being massacred in wars in Africa?

Illness is just one form of suffering. Going without food can also be a form of suffering, yet Jesus chose it for Himself for 40 days.

There are many forms of suffering that can easily be worse than many sicknesses. God does not promise His followers an end to suffering in Scripture; quite the reverse. He says that anyone who would come after Him must bear the cross- about as graphic a presentation of severe suffering as anyone can present.

 

[4EverHis]

The bible says that Jesus healed ALL who came to Him. Do not pray an “if it be your will” prayer as one poster said. Know and believe that it is God’s will.

I’m confused about this… Jesus Himself prayed in this way that I described. So did those who came to Him… they didn’t assume that He will heal them. They said, if it’s His will, they know He could.

While Jesus was in one of the towns, a man came along who was covered with leprosy. When he saw Jesus, he fell with his face to the ground and begged him, **“Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.” **Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” And immediately the leprosy left him.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Good quoting, 4EverHis.

 

[Kalos]

The Bible never says God will provide miracles to heal anyone, even if it is against His will.

What you’re contending, Kalos, is that it is always God’s will for people to be healed of illness. I don’t remember any Bible passage that says this. Also, Jesus did not cure everyone who had faith. The thief being crucified at His side had faith, yet Jesus cleansed the man’s spiritual wounds, not his physical ones. “By His wounds we are healed,” has a principally spiritual interpretation, and there is no passage that says it is always God’s will to heal every sickness. Your tradition of belief on this matter is extra-biblical.

Also, you’re forgetting the scene where the paralyzed man was brought before Jesus, and Jesus said to him, “Your sins are forgiven.” Then, when He saw the Pharisees doubting His power to forgive sins, He said, “so that you will know the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins . . .” and then He healed the paralyzed man physically. He did this in order to prove to people His power to forgive sins. Jesus’ principle purpose is to heal the spiritual wounds. Physical wounds or illnesses are secondary, and if people can patiently accept them from God like Job did when he was afflicted with sickness, rather than seeking physical healing all the time, putting their own flesh first, this is the higher road.

I made too many points in my last couple posts for you to respond to them all, I guess.

But here’s another point. Why would God always be ready to hand out miracles to prevent His children from having colds or getting the flu, but not always be ready to hand out miracles to stop His children starving to death or being massacred in wars in Africa?

Illness is just one form of suffering. Going without food can also be a form of suffering, yet Jesus chose it for Himself for 40 days.

There are many forms of suffering that can easily be worse than many sicknesses. God does not promise His followers an end to suffering in Scripture; quite the reverse. He says that anyone who would come after Him must bear the cross- about as graphic a presentation of severe suffering as anyone can present.

Yes, you read correctly, i am saying that healing is always God’s will! The reason we suffer illness is as a result of the fall or the sin of Adam which brought the curse. Did not the suffering and death of Christ redeem us from the curse? Do you not believe it is God’s will for all to be saved? We see in the Gospels that many were afflicted with devils. This is also a result of the curse. Would you say that it is not always God’s will for them to be made free?

St. Paul did have to suffer many things, it is true. But please Lief, we must make a distinction here. Paul’s suffering was as a result of standing for Christ and preaching the Gospel. God is glorified if we must suffer because of our faith. When St. Paul was bitten by the viper, he just shook it off and it didn’t harm him. He didn’t suffer at all. Illness however is a result of the curse. When someone is healed, God is glorified.

Now. when it comes to miracles Lief, God does not just hand them out. Rather, they are a response to faith. God does not respond to your need, as many think. Jesus said “all things are possible to him that believeth.” (Mk.9:23)

Fasting also has nothing in common with illness. Rather, it is a spiritual discipline. It is about denying the flesh. It is good for us. It can actually improve our health. It is not meant to harm us. Apparently, you don’t understand much about fasting?

Once again, taking up your cross is not like being struck with cancer. One must choose of his own will to bear a cross. Not so with cancer.

I just flattened all your points Lief. nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

 

[Kalos]

Hey P-12,
How’s it going with unc? Remember, its up to you to strengthen and inspire his faith. The first thing he needs to do is to reject what the doctors say. They may say he has 6 months to live. Totally reject this in the name of Jesus. Why? Not because it is wrong, but because God’s truth is greater and it superceeds natural things. Make God’s truth your truth. Don’t ever back down. The truth is that God has already done the healing 2000 years ago. His word can never fail. It never returns to Him void.

I hope you are getting some revelation on this. Words are important. Prv. 18 says “life and death are in the power of the tongue”. For instance, don’t say, “My cancer this or that” Calling it “my cancer” would be wrong and a negative confession because illness does not belong to the believer. Keep the conversation positive because God is still in control. Some may say this is living in denial but it is not if it what you say is backed up by faith and God’s Word. Remember what Paul said of Abraham in Rms. 4, “he called things that were not as though they were”.

We have a doctor in our area that teaches on health from both a scientific and faith-based perspective. His site is www.DrDonMD,com. The name of the TV show is “Hope for Your Health”. Its on the TCT network and can be seen at tct.tv.

 

[prodigalson12]

I visited my parents today, my uncle is my Dads brother, he lost his other brother 30 years ago due to brain cancer which means now, he just lost both of his brothers due to the same disease now if the other one also passes. You do see the double tragedy going on here and I really don’t want him to have to endure this as well, I can handle it, but can’t imagine what he’s going to have to face, losing both of them too early in their age, time wise.

I’m adding onto this, all of my relatives, except my Grandmother and my dear uncle no longer consider themselves Catholic, and now, I guess through prayer for Gods grace, my parents fully accept and encourage the new direction I’ve taken with my life and since I fully point towards the spiritual element, I can see how through this example, they coming back to the church. Our discussion was how his med’s are only postponing the inevitable, since it’s obvious, it’s going continously downhill, he simply will not be here next year unless God himself intervenes, through me, if need be, but he has to or he’s not going to be around any more. I get the fun of losing my grandmother any time now as well folks…

So prayers, please people, make them for him, his name is Robert, Bob for short and how his friends call him, but Robert is just fine if you want to use it as context which can appeal to other areas of his being I suppose. Pray for his head not to be hurting as it is, to be healed, for his neck, chest and any other part of his body that achs to be healed in full, and let his mind be in peace, knowing the Lords gentle love and grace to permutate through his being and our blessed Mother to watch over him at all times to console him during his time of need.

If it is God’s will for him to go now, please let his last days be pain free, filled with warm company of loved ones, and please welcome into your loving arms and hold him in your embrace from now until that day.

Thank you all for your prayers, God Bless You All

PS. He has a statue of Mary in the entrance of the house just in case you guys were needing a visual for where he is at typically location wise, also has a rosary and bible, I’m still working on getting him back to mass “as well as grandmom”, but first things first.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Yes, you read correctly, i am saying that healing is always God’s will! The reason we suffer illness is as a result of the fall or the sin of Adam which brought the curse.

The reason we suffer at all is the result of sin and the curse entering the world. Suffering in all forms, among those that persevere with Christ to the end, is to be eradicated one day, according to Scripture. However, before that day comes, God still can use all forms of suffering to His greater glory. As St. Paul said, God works in all circumstances for the good of those who love Him. He smooths the way to spiritual growth, but sometimes the smooth way to spiritual growth is the hard way in human life.

Did not the suffering and death of Christ redeem us from the curse? Do you not believe it is God’s will for all to be saved?

Yes and yes. I understand redemption from the curse differently than you do, though. To me, it is a process. Interiorly, we suffer in this redemption because our spirits are crucified as sin is purged away. The sinful nature is put to death, which is a painful process of self-abandonment for humans that follow Christ faithfully. Exteriorly, we also must die to ourselves, which means putting aside the desires of the body in favor of Christ and accepting gladly His will in all things. I’ll describe this further below.

We see in the Gospels that many were afflicted with devils. This is also a result of the curse. Would you say that it is not always God’s will for them to be made free?

What God wants is for people to submit to His will and live it in their lives. Demonic possession always prevents people from doing this. Illness generally does not.

The mortality of the human race is itself an effect of the curse. The ultimate deterioration of human health is something all humans share, because of God’s justice. Therefore it is bizarre to say that God ultimately brings everyone to deterioration of health (an effect of the curse), but along the way He does not wish anyone to have poor health (an effect of the curse). Woman’s pain in childbirth is also an effect of the curse. So is man’s having to labor for his food. Yet God has not annihilated them. We do not live in the New Heaven and New Earth yet. We live in a world where we are called to unite ourselves to a suffering God, for as St. Paul said, he was determined to fill up in his body those sufferings that were lacking in Christ, and as Jesus said, everyone must follow Him in the way of the Cross.

Something that is badly lacking in Protestant theology, in my experience, is an understanding of the meaning of embracing the cross. Jesus said that everyone that would follow Him must pick up his cross and follow Him. This passage means a great deal to Catholics, for good reason, as Jesus said everyone that would follow Him must do this.

The “cross” in the passage refers to any kind of suffering a person must experience in life for God’s sake. This can be outright persecution, but it also can be illness, financial trouble, a death in the family, or any other form of suffering. God said that He works in all circumstances for the good of those that love Him.

We live in a world where, with Christ, we triumph over the curse. We are called to live pinioned to that cross (2 Tim. 2:11). Christ triumphed over all evil powers from the cross, not from the ground, and that is where we Christians are called to triumph as well. The Cross Christ bore was an effect of the curse- if there was no curse, there need have been no cross. However, He bore it, and we shall bear it with Him in whatever form He calls us to lift it, or we shall not see Him on the last day. To live with Him, we must die with Him, and dying with Him does not mean all effects of the curse are eliminated, but it means we triumph over them by submitting perfectly with love to Christ and allowing any suffering or trial, any evil that comes at us or challenge of worldly affairs, to help us only to grow in Christ the Lord and tend to His greater glory through our faithfulness to Him in these circumstances.

St. Paul did have to suffer many things, it is true. But please Lief, we must make a distinction here. Paul’s suffering was as a result of standing for Christ and preaching the Gospel. God is glorified if we must suffer because of our faith. When St. Paul was bitten by the viper, he just shook it off and it didn’t harm him. He didn’t suffer at all. Illness however is a result of the curse. When someone is healed, God is glorified.

God is glorified whenever we patiently accept the cross He has given us, and that cross is not always persecution. Suffering comes to humans in a vast variety of ways, and God can use them all to His glory if we let Him.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Now. when it comes to miracles Lief, God does not just hand them out. Rather, they are a response to faith. God does not respond to your need, as many think. Jesus said “all things are possible to him that believeth.” (Mk.9:23)

This passage presumes that what they believe is in union with God’s will. It does not mean that whatever they believe is God’s will.

Fasting also has nothing in common with illness. Rather, it is a spiritual discipline.

To me, illness is a spiritual discipline as well. It also, when embraced as a cross from God, can become about denying the flesh. I try to accept God’s will for me in all circumstances, as I love Him. “In all things He works for the good of those who love Him” (Rom. 8:28).

It is about denying the flesh. It is good for us. It can actually improve our health. It is not meant to harm us.

A spanking may slightly harm a child’s rear end, but it can also heal bad interior dispositions of the soul! “God disciplines those He loves,” the Scripture says. Illnesses can harm us, physically, even kill our bodies, but is this real harm if our souls are thriving on Christ as we embrace the suffering for love of Him? This is magnificent spiritual discipline and can be higher than much fasting. Fasting is similar, though, for like the embracing of illness or other sufferings in the world, it can be a spiritual discipline that brings life to the soul.

Apparently, you don’t understand much about fasting?

Maybe not. I hope what I’ve said is true, but I could be wrong.

Once again, taking up your cross is not like being struck with cancer. One must choose of his own will to bear a cross. Not so with cancer.

One can choose to accept cancer as God’s will for one’s purification and thus allow it to build one up in love, or one can become angry at it and fight God’s will for his life, to his own greater misery and possibly even the destruction of his faith, if he lets his anger take him that far.

It is possible to make a good and holy request for healing, but it is a higher road to accept the suffering as spiritual discipline instead. And if one demands healing from God rather than surrendering to His will and offering one’s petition in humility, with acceptance of His “no” if that is how He chooses to reply, then this attitude of rebellion can become a curse to one’s life.

I just flattened all your points Lief. nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

Maybe so. If so, I sincerely apologize to the thread for speaking errors. However, I’m afraid you haven’t convinced me.

You know, I feel so happy. Evangelicals and Catholics have a lot more in common than they often realize. We share a belief in an infallible Scripture, we fight the relativism, materialism, and other spiritual idolatries of modern times, and we fight against abortion and sexual immorality, sharing much the same moral theology. Also, Evangelicals believe in miracles still, just as we Catholics do, and glorify God for His great works among men which He unleashes whenever He chooses according to His pleasure . And even if some Evangelicals think miracles of physical healing are supposed to happen all the time in response to our faith, and Catholics don’t generally share that view, we have so much in common that unites us that it’s a real privilege to discuss issues like this or others with you, and to be able to call you my fellow Christian brothers. Most important, we all love Jesus Christ, and from this love flows all the other good and holy unities that we share.

Praise God for evangelical Christians and for all Christians who sincerely follow Christ, our one Master in Heaven who looks upon us all with deep love.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I visited my parents today, my uncle is my Dads brother, he lost his other brother 30 years ago due to brain cancer which means now, he just lost both of his brothers due to the same disease now if the other one also passes. You do see the double tragedy going on here and I really don’t want him to have to endure this as well, I can handle it, but can’t imagine what he’s going to have to face, losing both of them too early in their age, time wise.

I’m adding onto this, all of my relatives, except my Grandmother and my dear uncle no longer consider themselves Catholic, and now, I guess through prayer for Gods grace, my parents fully accept and encourage the new direction I’ve taken with my life and since I fully point towards the spiritual element, I can see how through this example, they coming back to the church. Our discussion was how his med’s are only postponing the inevitable, since it’s obvious, it’s going continously downhill, he simply will not be here next year unless God himself intervenes, through me, if need be, but he has to or he’s not going to be around any more. I get the fun of losing my grandmother any time now as well folks…

So prayers, please people, make them for him, his name is Robert, Bob for short and how his friends call him, but Robert is just fine if you want to use it as context which can appeal to other areas of his being I suppose. Pray for his head not to be hurting as it is, to be healed, for his neck, chest and any other part of his body that achs to be healed in full, and let his mind be in peace, knowing the Lords gentle love and grace to permutate through his being and our blessed Mother to watch over him at all times to console him during his time of need.

If it is God’s will for him to go now, please let his last days be pain free, filled with warm company of loved ones, and please welcome into your loving arms and hold him in your embrace from now until that day.

Thank you all for your prayers, God Bless You All

PS. He has a statue of Mary in the entrance of the house just in case you guys were needing a visual for where he is at typically location wise, also has a rosary and bible, I’m still working on getting him back to mass “as well as grandmom”, but first things first.

I’ll pray that he be healed and that whatever happens, he and all your family may dwell in God’s arms.

 

[Kalos]

This passage presumes that what they believe is in union with God’s will. It does not mean that whatever they believe is God’s will.

To me, illness is a spiritual discipline as well. It also, when embraced as a cross from God, can become about denying the flesh. I try to accept God’s will for me in all circumstances, as I love Him. “In all things He works for the good of those who love Him” (Rom. 8:28).

A spanking may slightly harm a child’s rear end, but it can also heal bad interior dispositions of the soul! “God disciplines those He loves,” the Scripture says. Illnesses can harm us, physically, even kill our bodies, but is this real harm if our souls are thriving on Christ as we embrace the suffering for love of Him? This is magnificent spiritual discipline and can be higher than much fasting. Fasting is similar, though, for like the embracing of illness or other sufferings in the world, it can be a spiritual discipline that brings life to the soul.

Maybe not. I hope what I’ve said is true, but I could be wrong.

One can choose to accept cancer as God’s will for one’s purification and thus allow it to build one up in love, or one can become angry at it and fight God’s will for his life, to his own greater misery and possibly even the destruction of his faith, if he lets his anger take him that far.

It is possible to make a good and holy request for healing, but it is a higher road to accept the suffering as spiritual discipline instead. And if one demands healing from God rather than surrendering to His will and offering one’s petition in humility, with acceptance of His “no” if that is how He chooses to reply, then this attitude of rebellion can become a curse to one’s life.

Maybe so. If so, I sincerely apologize to the thread for speaking errors. However, I’m afraid you haven’t convinced me.

You know, I feel so happy. Evangelicals and Catholics have a lot more in common than they often realize. We share a belief in an infallible Scripture, we fight the relativism, materialism, and other spiritual idolatries of modern times, and we fight against abortion and sexual immorality, sharing much the same moral theology.

Also, Evangelicals believe in miracles still, just as we Catholics do, and glorify God for His great works among men which He unleashes whenever He chooses according to His pleasure . And even if some Evangelicals think miracles of physical healing are supposed to happen all the time

Thanks for the reply: Indeed God still works miracles, but he needs someone who is willing to make a way for Him to work by believing for a miracle. God can do nothing without our faith. However, healing does not always need a sudden miracle intervention as i have been trying to say. Healing will come one step at a time if we put ouselves in agreement with God’s word and use the authority that we are given. I cant posssibly explain very much here, but since this thread is about healing, the best authority i know is Dr. Don VerHulst MD. His TV show was excelent this week and you can see Hope for Your Healing at www.tct.tv

 

[prodigalson12]

I’m leaning towards this subject matter along the lines of prayer, simple, yet powerful, and within it, keeping God’s plans and grace in equal tones. On one hand, his healing can produce much good, on the other, his leaving this world, no longer suffering and then finally experiencing God’s peace is another, so prolonging his life in the latter produces only more suffering.

This entire matter is in his hands and in his hands entirely, I will make my prayer to keep him with us just a bit longer, I will also accept it if he needs to move on sooner, ending his suffering because God has other plans for him,

Please, Lord, if you desire to heal him, then do so, it would make not only myself happy, it would many others. If you decide not to, again, it’s within your plans, only you know more then all of us and I fully trust in you making the right decision for him and us.

May your name be praised forever, Amen, Brian