Faith proofs cannot be detected by material measures!

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hasantas

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I have been on forums philosophy since a short time and ı see the debates with atheists in a useful and inconclusive way. Because atheists push discussion in materialistic field but evidences of faith are not in matter. Accepting and getting faith is not a process like in mathematics, physics or chemistry. İn science the conclusions are getting by mind and logic. But in divine issues consequences can be got by mind, logic, heart, moral senses. So if atheist do not use their heart and moral senses too they will never derive faith.

Faith proofs are like light. We can not get and catch light by hands. We must point a mirorr towards light. Heart is a mirror for divine lights. So if atheists are wistful to understand faith lights they do not only concerate in material. But material is a mirror for faith lights because if there were not any matter(mirror, screen) than we would not see any proofs(lights). Forexample if light fall not on a mirror or screen than we will not see any images. İn the faith issue the main mirror is heart and other mirrors are related to heart. İf you do not use mirror of heart other mirrors will be unuseful.

So science’s knowledges can shine faith proofs in material but if you do not use mirror of heart than other mirrors are so thick that nothing can be seen on their impure faces.
There is an answer for any question in material world because God does everything with a cause or a law except creating initially. İn reality every law and order in universe demonstrate will power of God because everything is so perfect and flawless which can not be by themselves or chances. But if you do not use heart than every case seems as if it occurs by itself or chances or the names which we call nature or natural progress.

So can any atheist use his/her heart?
 
I think they use their heart but they write it off as a biproduct of science (ie evolution) vs. God’s imprint on our heart and soul.
 
hasantas said:
So can any atheist use his/her heart?
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If you are talking about reflecting on ones deep feelings, thoughts, and intuitions then yes, this would be a very human thing to do irrespective of one’s religious classification.
hasantas said:
But in divine issues consequences can be got by mind, logic, heart, moral senses. So if atheist do not use their heart and moral senses too they will never derive faith.
Click to expand...
Religious or not I think a lot of people use some of the capabilities and feelings that you’ve listed above to come to conclusions about things. But those conclusions vary and one’s personal experiences and reflections are not always very portable. The same scenario doesn’t necessarily result in the same experience for others. It’s inevitable that not every one will draw the same conclusions from deep personal feelings, thoughts, and experiences.
 
Can an atheist use his heart? But of course - they have love too.

To me, an atheist is someone who denies there is a God. But those I’ve spoken with are so intense in their arguments against God, I wonder Who it is they are really fighting if not God? It certainly isn’t me or most of the folks in their day to day walk through life. No. I think that they’ve had brushes with God, but have for some reason turned their backs on Him.

Every heart knows God at some very core, fundamental level, that is why no matter how far you go back in the archeological records you find evidence of man’s search for meaning in religious depiction and he has left evidence of his search in history that is thousands of years old. Every culture has some understanding of a religion. We have been told by more than one person that God is in the heart of every man just as he has breath in his lungs. An atheist has to fight this fundamental, natural inclination towards God constantly and that is where their denial of Him gets nurtured - in their core beliefs. They argue with Him all the time and have to refute everything they hear that is contrary to their denial. This consumes quite a bit of energy. It is much easy to just stop fighting and acknowledge God’s existence. But that is too easy for most Atheists. Most of those Atheists I’ve met who are truly Atheistic strike me as both very hurt persons and very angry persons. This of course is only my personal experience and in no way is a general conception or statement about Atheists. They just seemed that way to me. Their fighting Him gets them that way. It as if they’ve blamed God for their hurts and to hurt Him back, they live denying Him. But these are just my opinions and I’m no expert on anything but lunch.

Glenda
 
glendab said:
Can an atheist use his heart? But of course - they have love too.

To me, an atheist is someone who denies there is a God. But those I’ve spoken with are so intense in their arguments against God, I wonder Who it is they are really fighting if not God? It certainly isn’t me or most of the folks in their day to day walk through life. No. I think that they’ve had brushes with God, but have for some reason turned their backs on Him.

Every heart knows God at some very core, fundamental level, that is why no matter how far you go back in the archeological records you find evidence of man’s search for meaning in religious depiction and he has left evidence of his search in history that is thousands of years old. Every culture has some understanding of a religion. We have been told by more than one person that God is in the heart of every man just as he has breath in his lungs. An atheist has to fight this fundamental, natural inclination towards God constantly and that is where their denial of Him gets nurtured - in their core beliefs. They argue with Him all the time and have to refute everything they hear that is contrary to their denial. This consumes quite a bit of energy. It is much easy to just stop fighting and acknowledge God’s existence. But that is too easy for most Atheists. Most of those Atheists I’ve met who are truly Atheistic strike me as both very hurt persons and very angry persons. This of course is only my personal experience and in no way is a general conception or statement about Atheists. They just seemed that way to me. Their fighting Him gets them that way. It as if they’ve blamed God for their hurts and to hurt Him back, they live denying Him. But these are just my opinions and I’m no expert on anything but lunch.

Glenda
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Some atheists I have known are precisely as you describe them, hurt and angry. Others I have found to be ultra-rational on every point of existence. If it doesn’t make sense to them, it does not exist. There is no anger in this group, except if someone tries to change their mind.
 
oldcelt said:
Some atheists I have known are precisely as you describe them, hurt and angry. Others I have found to be ultra-rational on every point of existence. If it doesn’t make sense to them, it does not exist. There is no anger in this group, except if someone tries to change their mind.
Click to expand...
That is a defect! We should always be prepared to change our mind if there is overwhelming evidence that we are mistaken.
 
tonyrey said:
That is a defect! We should always be prepared to change our mind if there is overwhelming evidence that we are mistaken.
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Agreed, but on the matter of spirituality I don’t see a lot of that anywhere. People tend to hold their beliefs as sacred, no matter the facts.
 
tonyrey said:
That is a defect! We should always be prepared to change our mind if there is overwhelming evidence that we are mistaken.
Click to expand...
Amen!

(A moment of silence while the irony, if visible, sinks in).
 
hasantas said:
I have been on forums philosophy since a short time and ı see the debates with atheists in a useful and inconclusive way. Because atheists push discussion in materialistic field but evidences of faith are not in matter. Accepting and getting faith is not a process like in mathematics, physics or chemistry. İn science the conclusions are getting by mind and logic. But in divine issues consequences can be got by mind, logic, heart, moral senses. So if atheist do not use their heart and moral senses too they will never derive faith.

Faith proofs are like light. We can not get and catch light by hands. We must point a mirorr towards light. Heart is a mirror for divine lights. So if atheists are wistful to understand faith lights they do not only concerate in material. But material is a mirror for faith lights because if there were not any matter(mirror, screen) than we would not see any proofs(lights). Forexample if light fall not on a mirror or screen than we will not see any images. İn the faith issue the main mirror is heart and other mirrors are related to heart. İf you do not use mirror of heart other mirrors will be unuseful.

So science’s knowledges can shine faith proofs in material but if you do not use mirror of heart than other mirrors are so thick that nothing can be seen on their impure faces.
There is an answer for any question in material world because God does everything with a cause or a law except creating initially. İn reality every law and order in universe demonstrate will power of God because everything is so perfect and flawless which can not be by themselves or chances. But if you do not use heart than every case seems as if it occurs by itself or chances or the names which we call nature or natural progress.

So can any atheist use his/her heart?
Click to expand...
Spoken like a true philosopher. Spoken like St. Paul, “… We know him by the things that
he has made…”.

Linus2nd
 
glendab said:
Can an atheist use his heart? But of course - they have love too.

To me, an atheist is someone who denies there is a God. But those I’ve spoken with are so intense in their arguments against God, I wonder Who it is they are really fighting if not God? It certainly isn’t me or most of the folks in their day to day walk through life. No. I think that they’ve had brushes with God, but have for some reason turned their backs on Him.

Every heart knows God at some very core, fundamental level, that is why no matter how far you go back in the archeological records you find evidence of man’s search for meaning in religious depiction and he has left evidence of his search in history that is thousands of years old. Every culture has some understanding of a religion. We have been told by more than one person that God is in the heart of every man just as he has breath in his lungs. An atheist has to fight this fundamental, natural inclination towards God constantly and that is where their denial of Him gets nurtured - in their core beliefs. They argue with Him all the time and have to refute everything they hear that is contrary to their denial. This consumes quite a bit of energy. It is much easy to just stop fighting and acknowledge God’s existence. But that is too easy for most Atheists. Most of those Atheists I’ve met who are truly Atheistic strike me as both very hurt persons and very angry persons. This of course is only my personal experience and in no way is a general conception or statement about Atheists. They just seemed that way to me. Their fighting Him gets them that way. It as if they’ve blamed God for their hurts and to hurt Him back, they live denying Him. But these are just my opinions and I’m no expert on anything but lunch.

Glenda
Click to expand...
And the reasons they offer, angry or not, are not very rational. The aggressively angry ones are way off the mark. Something much deeper is at work, usually personal sin. They are stricking out blindly and blame " believers " for all the worlds wrongs. As if their own pagan ancestors were saints who did not wrong. And, of course, they never mention the horrors of the French revolution, WW 1 & 2, Ho Chi Men, Mao Tse Dung, Cambodia, that idiot in North Korea, Stalin, etc.

They also miss the point that this is acting from prejudice and if they wish to be seen as rational, they must give up all prejudice.

Linus2nd
 
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