Faith saves?

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Zahmir

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How the heck does faith save? When we say “I believe in Christ,” and this faith supposedly saves, what is it that we believe about Christ that saves us? How does faith do anything for me in regards to my salvation? Is God keeping track of whether or not I have faith in Him?

I believe strongly in faith and works. I believe that you must know Jesus to do the right thing, but that if you don’t do the right thing, the kingdom of heaven is not open to you. It’s like, God gave us the oppurtunity, but we’re all like Adam before we ate the apple… we’re in a state of limbo (not to be confused with the idea of “limbo” as a place). We can choose to follow God or we can choose to disobey him.

Nevertheless, no matter what we do, we still need Christ to bear our sins, which he did, to enter the kingdom of heaven.

How far off am I? Am I understanding this correctly?

My big question is how does one’s faith save them?
 
How the heck does faith save? When we say “I believe in Christ,” and this faith supposedly saves, what is it that we believe about Christ that saves us? How does faith do anything for me in regards to my salvation? Is God keeping track of whether or not I have faith in Him?

I believe strongly in faith and works. I believe that you must know Jesus to do the right thing, but that if you don’t do the right thing, the kingdom of heaven is not open to you. It’s like, God gave us the oppurtunity, but we’re all like Adam before we ate the apple… we’re in a state of limbo (not to be confused with the idea of “limbo” as a place). We can choose to follow God or we can choose to disobey him.

Nevertheless, no matter what we do, we still need Christ to bear our sins, which he did, to enter the kingdom of heaven.

How far off am I? Am I understanding this correctly?

My big question is how does one’s faith save them?
First of all start off with the definition of faith as the Bible defines it:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old received divine approval. 3 By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear.

Without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
Heb 11:1-3, 6
Faith is about obeying God in your life especially when you cant see physical benefits/rewards for your obedience. Its like your parents telling you to do something which your unsure of, yet do it trusting that they wont lead you wrong. Its the same idea with God and man, we obey Him even when its hard and even when things dont seem right, because through faith we believe He wont let us down.
 
Zahmir,

Not to put too fine a point on it, but faith by itself does not save. The Bible says we are “saved by grace through faith.” It’s not enough to have faith; we have to have faith in the right thing or in the right Person. If I am in a pit and have a ladder up the side, I have to have faith that the ladder will hold my weight or else I will never climb it up out of the pit. It is the ladder that saves, but it is my faith in the ladder that allows me to take advantage of it. Naturally a “faith” that says “I believe the ladder will hold my weight” but which does not show itself in my actually climbing the ladder will not do me any good either. And if it turns out that the ladder is NOT strong enough to hold my weight, then all the faith in the world will not get me out of that pit.
  • Liberian
 
Faith saves (Eph 2:8-9), passes to Hope (Rom 8:24) and Love (1 Cor 13:2,13; Gal 5:6) who scores (Phil 2:12-13; Rom 5:1-5) !

Phil P
 
Zahmir,

Not to put too fine a point on it, but faith by itself does not save. The Bible says we are “saved by grace through faith.” It’s not enough to have faith; we have to have faith in the right thing or in the right Person. If I am in a pit and have a ladder up the side, I have to have faith that the ladder will hold my weight or else I will never climb it up out of the pit. It is the ladder that saves, but it is my faith in the ladder that allows me to take advantage of it. Naturally a “faith” that says “I believe the ladder will hold my weight” but which does not show itself in my actually climbing the ladder will not do me any good either. And if it turns out that the ladder is NOT strong enough to hold my weight, then all the faith in the world will not get me out of that pit.
  • Liberian
So then, what is the Protestant view of “Faith only.” Do they understand this, or are they believing something else?
 
Hello Zahmir,

To put faith in Jesus means to do what He tells you to do.

Jesus is our Saviour. We (Old Testament and New Testament) people, can only enter into heaven through Jesus’ blood.

Jesus “saves” those who put their faith in Him.

Jesus tells us that those who put their faith in John the Baptist and believe in John the Baptist are entering into heaven. How does faith in John the Baptist bring one into eternal life? The Holy Spirit (God) told the people, through the human mouth of John the Baptist, what they must do to go to heaven (through Jesus). To have faith in God means to do what God tells you to do. God will bring those faithful to Him into eternal life through Jesus.

Please visit Believe

NAB JOH 12:44
Jesus proclaimed aloud: “Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; and whoever looks on me is seeing him who sent me. I have come to the world as its light, to keep anyone who **believes **in me from remaining in the dark. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I am not the one to condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words already has his judge, namely, the word I have spoken it is that which will condemn him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.”

NAB JOH 3:36

Whoever believes in the Son has
life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God.

NAB MAT 21:28 Parable of the Two Sons.

“What do you think of this case? There was a man who had two sons. He approached the elder and said, ‘Son, go out and work in the vineyard today.’ The son replied, ‘I am on my way, sir’ ; but he never went. Then the man came to his second son and said the same thing. This son said in reply, ‘No, I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. Which of the two did what the father wanted?” They said, “The second.” Jesus said to them, “I assure you that tax collectors and prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you. **When John came preaching a way of holiness, you put no faith **in him; but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did believe in him. Yet even when you saw that, you did not repent and believe in him.”
 
Hi;
Saving faith is a gift from God, Eph. 2:8 & 9 and saving faith comes by hearing the Word of God, Roman 10 : 14 - 17.

allischalmers
 
So then, what is the Protestant view of “Faith only.” Do they understand this, or are they believing something else?
there is much confusion over what protestants teach on ‘faith only’ which needs to be set right. Protestants and Catholics when comes down to the nitty gritty beleive the same thing about how we are saved -

we are saved because Jesus Christ - who was fully God and fully man, died in our place on the cross to save us from our Sins.

John 3:16, God so loved the world that He gave his only Son that whoever believes in Him may have everlasting life.

Jesus died to save us… period. I wish folks would stop saying we save ourselves because of our works. Thats not Christianity. Christianity is believing that Jesus Christ died to save us on the cross.

Now the thats believe we in common, and is all that can save us. but it must be accepted. We believe in common that Jesus died for all the whole world - but that the whole world is not saved - because a person must accept the gift to be saved.

How do we accept it, is where Catholics and Protestants differ in opinion. It is not what (who) saves us, because that is clear - it is Jesus, but rather how (the logistics that is) we accept the free gift Christ earned for us on the cross.

and here is the next interesting thing - most conservative protestants believe the same thing - surprise. - catholics and protestants both believe we accept the free gift by accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

we do agree on this believe it or not -

Here is what I mean - while there are some protestants who say you simply say a prayer which says I accept Jesus as Lord and Savior - most will tell you it meaningless unless you walk the talk - ie: show God you really did accept Him, and If you don’t show evidence of it - you are likely not saved. so how do you know? And can you reject God subsequently by falling into sin?

some say yes, and some say no - the catholic church knows the answer is yes - and offers help to keep us in God’s grace through the church and the sacraments - help not in earning our salvation - but rather help to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior every day - and never to fall back into the evil ways of the world - help to grow closer to God - not to be saved - but to stay saved and more importantly grow closer to God - to be more like Jesus - which is the point really - Jesus didn’t simply die to give us a free ticket to heaven - but rather to free the world from evil. See Jeremiah 31:31-34 - God established a new covenant with His people which puts His law on thier hearts, and He remembers thier sins no more - we are in that new covenant in Christ -

in short catholics and protestants believe the same thing - we are saved by grace - by faith in Jesus Christ - but faith requires action - faith is not mere words or talk - faith is action - you must walk the talk to show God by your entire life that you really did accept Jesus as Lord and Savior - not in a single moment but every day of your life.
 
God’s grace saves, through faith.

No way around that.

Love, hope and forgivness and living according to the commandments are also required for salvation. If the other four things didn’t come into play then maybe someone could understand salvation as faith alone, but the fact is all must be present not just faith.

No room for the saying “by faith alone” at least according to the word of God.
 
Yes, we as Catholics, believe that we are justified through faith in Jesus Christ, but not by faith alone, and this is scriptural. But, if someone were to say that we are justified by Faith Alone, It must be shown in scripture where this is said, not implied, but specific scripture that say’s a person is saved or justified by faith alone, the only place it is said in scripture is in James 2:24, “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone”. Hear are a few other means by which scripture say’s we can gain salvation, eternal life, new birth, justification.

By Believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?

By Repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?

By Baptism (John 3:5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?

By the work of the Spirit (Johnn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?

By declaring with our mouths (Luke 12:8; Rom 10:9)?

By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?

By Works (Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:21, 24-25)?

By Grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?

By His blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?

By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?

By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?

Can we cut any one of these out of the list and proclaim it alone as the means of salvation? Can we be saved without faith? without God’s grace? without repentance? without baptism? without the Spirit? These are all involved and necessary; not one of them can be dismissed as a means of obtaining eternal life. Neither can one be emphasized to the exclusion of another. They are all involved in salvation and entry into the Church. The Catholic Church does not divide these various elements of salvation up, overemphasizing some while ignoring others; rather she holds them all in their fullness.
 
there is much confusion over what protestants teach on ‘faith only’ which needs to be set right. Protestants and Catholics when comes down to the nitty gritty beleive the same thing about how we are saved -

we are saved because Jesus Christ - who was fully God and fully man, died in our place on the cross to save us from our Sins.

John 3:16, God so loved the world that He gave his only Son that whoever believes in Him may have everlasting life.

Jesus died to save us… period. I wish folks would stop saying we save ourselves because of our works. Thats not Christianity. Christianity is believing that Jesus Christ died to save us on the cross.

Now the thats believe we in common, and is all that can save us. but it must be accepted. We believe in common that Jesus died for all the whole world - but that the whole world is not saved - because a person must accept the gift to be saved.

How do we accept it, is where Catholics and Protestants differ in opinion. It is not what (who) saves us, because that is clear - it is Jesus, but rather how (the logistics that is) we accept the free gift Christ earned for us on the cross.

and here is the next interesting thing - most conservative protestants believe the same thing - surprise. - catholics and protestants both believe we accept the free gift by accepting Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior.

we do agree on this believe it or not -

Here is what I mean - while there are some protestants who say you simply say a prayer which says I accept Jesus as Lord and Savior - most will tell you it meaningless unless you walk the talk - ie: show God you really did accept Him, and If you don’t show evidence of it - you are likely not saved. so how do you know? And can you reject God subsequently by falling into sin?

some say yes, and some say no - the catholic church knows the answer is yes - and offers help to keep us in God’s grace through the church and the sacraments - help not in earning our salvation - but rather help to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior every day - and never to fall back into the evil ways of the world - help to grow closer to God - not to be saved - but to stay saved and more importantly grow closer to God - to be more like Jesus - which is the point really - Jesus didn’t simply die to give us a free ticket to heaven - but rather to free the world from evil. See Jeremiah 31:31-34 - God established a new covenant with His people which puts His law on thier hearts, and He remembers thier sins no more - we are in that new covenant in Christ -

in short catholics and protestants believe the same thing - we are saved by grace - by faith in Jesus Christ - but faith requires action - faith is not mere words or talk - faith is action - you must walk the talk to show God by your entire life that you really did accept Jesus as Lord and Savior - not in a single moment but every day of your life.
Great post! This is a really good job of summing up…
 
Yes, we as Catholics, believe that we are justified through faith in Jesus Christ, but not by faith alone, and this is scriptural. But, if someone were to say that we are justified by Faith Alone, It must be shown in scripture where this is said, not implied, but specific scripture that say’s a person is saved or justified by faith alone, the only place it is said in scripture is in James 2:24, “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone”. Hear are a few other means by which scripture say’s we can gain salvation, eternal life, new birth, justification.

By Believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?

By Repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?

By Baptism (John 3:5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?

By the work of the Spirit (Johnn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?

By declaring with our mouths (Luke 12:8; Rom 10:9)?

By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?

By Works (Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:21, 24-25)?

By Grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?

By His blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?

By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?

By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?

Can we cut any one of these out of the list and proclaim it alone as the means of salvation? Can we be saved without faith? without God’s grace? without repentance? without baptism? without the Spirit? These are all involved and necessary; not one of them can be dismissed as a means of obtaining eternal life. Neither can one be emphasized to the exclusion of another. They are all involved in salvation and entry into the Church. The Catholic Church does not divide these various elements of salvation up, overemphasizing some while ignoring others; rather she holds them all in their fullness.
agreed. belief alone does not save us. if you define faith as being one the same as belief. I don’t. nor do I think protestants such as Martin Luther defined faith that way either - but many protestants do - and they are wrong. Faith is not simply belief. Faith requires a response - it requires action. it requires obedience. those who obey God have never seen God, they are not compelled to obey God, except perhaps by peer pressure - instead they obey God and seek Him out because they really believe - and it is this belief which is expressed by what they do.

faith therefore is defined not by what we believe or say but rather what we do. because simply put – talk is cheap. this what I think st. james was trying to say - faith is not faith if it is not accompanied by works because talk is cheap.

We believe Christ died for us and opened the gates of heaven for us, He alone bridged the gap between our sinful state and a holy God. and this belief expresses itself in our works - in our obedience - without the works and obedience, where is this faith? I would submit it is non-existent, if you are not obeying God and so did st. john in his first letter

1 john 2:2 - "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[a] the sins of the whole world.

3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love** is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

catch verse 6 it says we must walk as Jesus did. its right there and this is from the NIV. catholics and protestants we believe the same thing.

we obey God not because He is physically compelling us but because we believe - because we have faith - so therefore it is in the end our faith which saves us.

the whole misunderstanding is about how we define the word ‘faith’ - faith requires action - an obedient faith for it to be a real faith which is a saving faith

the same st. john who wrote down the words of Jesus:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

also wrote down these words:
5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Burned - wow… serious business indeed.!! and scary. but…

"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

this is not from a catholic bible but from the NIV but it is catholic teaching. because God’s word backs up what the catholic church teaches regardless of the translation - faith requires obedience.**
 
Thank you so much!!!

This helps IMMESNELY!

I knew that “faith only” as in “belief” sounded very strange. It’s like, somehow God knows who believes in Him, that salvation is a subjective thing not a reality.

It also reminded me of the gnostic view of “knowledge” that if you “know” that you are “of the Father” or “from the Pleroma” you will be “saved.”

Wow… thanks guys.
 
Saved by Faith alone by understanding that you can’t do anything extra is not possible both biblicaly and logically

if you have faith in christ, this means you believe in christ
If you believe in christ this means you must beleive in his words.
If you beleive in his words, you will do what he says (ie keep the commandments)
If you DONT do what he says, you are saying by your actions (fruit) that you do not believe him, or that christ is a liar, both of which do not bode well for the particular ‘believer’

Therefore… salvation by faith alone is impossible both from a scriptural and a logical point of view.

It is also imposible to have faith in christ and NOT do what he says. otherwise you are violatiing the meaning of the word Faith. The best you can say at that point is that you agree that what he says is true.

If you insist that you still do not have to do anything, you are actually not subscribing to faith alone, but saying you are saved by agreeing that what god says is true alone. I can agree, and not do. but i cannot have faith and not works.

Anywhere in the bible where it says you must believe (john 3:16 per example) to be saved and doesnt explicitly say anything about works refers to the setup mentioned above. if you beleive, you will do what he says.

If you think the logic is faulty, rememebr, even christ preached this logic “Why do you call me Lord Lord and not do as I say”

I have also heard it said that the saving part comes from faith, after we are saved is when we begin our works. Again, this is going to go back to the same argument. By declaring this theology you are again saying that I agree with christ, but havent started doing what he says. (remember, even the demons in hell believe)

Are we saved by works alone? absolutly not. scripture even says our works are like dirty rags. Does this however mean that our works are meaningless, no, because scripture also says god created us to do good works.

I reiterate, any time you wish to point to a verse and say, see this verse says we are to have faith and we are saved. I say. AMEN!. what does it mean to have faith? to here what christ says, to beleive what christ says and to DO what christ says. Other wise you are teaching a theology of agreeing alone because faith alone is imposible

In Christ
 
Hee hee sorry… shoulda read yours as well 🙂 you pretty much did say the same thing…

In Christ
 
The more the better 🙂

Thanks again for your responses… As a student at Notre Dame and in my particular major (Theology and Philsophy), I have to write a thesis on a particular topic of my choosing. Right now, I have interests in sex as analagous to the Eucharist, faith and salvation (including original sin), and perhaps Christian humility in politics (as is big in the world of conservative politics today).
 
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