Faith

[Flavius_Aetius]

Hello, I’m sure this isn’t the first time this has been asked but recently while thinking alone I’ve started having doubts about the concept of faith in general.

My consern is that faith seems illogical and untestable and thus makes it difficult to believe in. For example someone could believe that it was sentient dragons flying outside of our demension that created the universe and nothing could be said to prove otherwise; you can even claim by faith that these beings simply existed before anything else without a single means of description. Then in every religion their have been events considered miracles so that pretty much leaves faith exactly were it was; a belief that has no means of being proven. Reading over it I know I sound like some pompous atheist attempting to rattle on the forum’s cage but if anyone’s seen my post count here I’m simply a discouraged, hollow, poor excuse for a Catholic…

Anyway tomarrow I’ll be heading to Confession even if I only half-heartedly think I’m worthy of it… With Lent coming up I would appreciate any answers so hopefully I can recover spiritually by Ash Wendsday.

 

[Trishie]

Stop knocking yourself! Okay, so you’re a thinker. Not a cause for self-flagelation!

I’ll PM you

 

[Scottgun]

My consern is that faith seems illogical and untestable and thus makes it difficult to believe in.

But (and I say this not as a bust in the chops) it seems that your faith in the proposition that all things must be scientifically testable is rock solid. It’s the old joke that the skeptic questions everything except skepticism, his blind faith in that would make the most presuppositionalist fundamentalist blush.

 

[fhansen]

I think you also have to consider the fact that faith is a gift, the truths of which are said to correspond to and awaken knowledge which resides in us already. If we don’t like taking a stand against unbelief in this world-and so in ourselves- this is often a matter of our pride. OTOH it’s not enough to decide to believe in something like sentient dragons creating the world just to be obnoxious or to answer serious questions with superficial answers- but if those sentient dragons were also said to have attributes and capabilities and deeds which strike a chord that resonates within me-kind of like knowing the next part in a long forgotten movie without quite knowing how, then they might qualify for being something we’d call God.

It doesn’t make sense to me that I’d exist in a world where I’d possess nothing more than a question-and the awesome ability and desire or need to pose it-about my origins, my purpose, and my destiny, unless there were answers from “something bigger” out there that gave me that very ability to begin with. And for me Christianity does that very thing. Our faith is reasonable without, for the most part, being testable -except for the interior test against something we already “know” but need help in knowing. Is it any surprise that we’d resist belief in God if we’re predisposed to unbelief in Him? And that same predisposition in us is a truth our faith reveals as well.

For me it comes down to, utilizing language from the CCC, whether I prefer myself to God or am willing to place Him over me. And this is an ongoing conversion process.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I think God means for it to be mystery and faith. People do attempt to make it more. They attempt through wild illogic and twisting ot make it sure. Fundamentalists and other extreme conservatives are but echoing what we all desire. But most of us know that that is the not the way.

The Journey of faith is the main focus of our existence. If it were “proven” then of course we would just be obedient robots, doing as we are told, with our future assured. What would in fact be the point of this life then?

I believe God wishes to interact with us, enter into our lives, our struggles, our doubts and fears, and when we step aside and take his lead, we emerge as whole complete humans. We let go of the fears and uncertainties of life, because we have faith that there is a reason for this journey. We believe that we are becoming better humans.

So that is my answer in a capsule. Faith is how God designed it. By pushing that envelope, we open to the world of the unseen. We begin to see the true nature of humanity and God.

 

[Coreopisis]

To have faith means to believe something without proof.

To believe in something without proof does not come naturally to us humans. We need God and the Holy Spirit to help us have faith.

Pray for a strengthening of faith.
It will come.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Faith has already been tested scientifically. See here:

In A.D. 700 “at the monastery of St. Loginus in Lanciano, Italy, a priest from the Order of St. Basil was celebrating Mass. Having doubted the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the priest saw, during the consecration, the bread miraculously transfored into a circle of flesh and the wine appear as bright as fresh blood. Eventually, the liquefied blood turned into five pellets of various sizes and shapes. When the local archbishop later weighed the pellets, it was discovered that one nugget weighed the same as all five together, two as much as any three, and the smallest as much as the largest. In February of 1574, another test was done on the miraculous blood pellets. Again, any one of the pellets weighed along equaled the weight of all five pellets together. In 1970, further tests were made on the body and blood of Jesus. Analysis has proved that the bread and wine contain characteristics of real human flesh and blood. Both belonged to the same blood type, AB. Eventually the Franciscans rebuilt the church that houses the Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano. It is now called the Church of St. Francis (Michael Freze, S.F.O. Voices, Visions, and Apparitions) (concernedcatholics.org - This website is for sale! - obedience chastity virginity confession Eucharist Holy Communion last rites sacrament marriage Jesus Resources and Information.)”

This miracle was first studied scientifically in 1970-1971 by Dr. Edoardo Linoli, professor of anatomy, pathological histology, chemistry and clinical microsocpy, and the former head of the Laboratory of Pathological Anatomy at the Hospital of Arezzo, published in pub med: Quad Sclavo Digan. 1971. Sep; 7(3): 661-74. Histological, immunological and biochemiccal studies on the flesh and blood of the eucharistic miracle of Lanciano (8th century) ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4950729?ordinalpos=28&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
(Pubmed is a service of the U.S. National Library of Medicine and the National Institutes of Health that includes over 18 million citations from MEDLINE and other life science journals for biomedical articles back to the 1950s. PubMed includes links to full text articles and other related resources)

Findings:
"* The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

• The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
• The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
• In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
• The Flesh is a “HEART” complete in its essential structure.
• The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB(Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin)
• In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteric make-up of the fresh normal blood.
• In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.
• The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheri and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

 

[AveSantaMaria]

See also:

In Kibeho, Rwanda prior to the genocide, the Mother of the Word appeared. She said a “river of blood” would happen if people did not convert, repent,pray the Rosary, the Chaplet of Seven Sorrows, and stop committing various moral sins, such as the girls sleeping with certain men. Did a river of blood happen? This New York Times Article on the Rwandan genocide documents the apparitions of Mary prior to the genocide. query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E4D81738F93BA35757C0A96F958260

Then we look at Fatima, Portugal. See some of the messages from Mary (Our Lady of the Rosary) to the three little children: The war [World War I was still raging] is going to end. But if people do not stop offending God, another and worse one will begin in the reign of Pius XI… When you shall see a night illuminated by an unknown light [on January 25-26, 1938 from 9PM to 2AM there appeared over the Northern Hemisphere a very unusual light that scared many people. The New York Times devoted almost an entire page to the event. Scientists attributed it to an exceptional aurora borealis] “know that this is the great sign that God gives you that He is going to punish the world for its many crimes by means of war, hunger and persecution of the Church and the Holy Father” [Within two months of the sign, in March of 1938, Hitler invaded his first country, Austria.] loveandmercy.org/loveandmercy/fatima.htm

New York Times article: January 26, 1938
Aurura Borealis Startles Europe; People Flee in Fear, Call Firemen; Britons Thought Windsor Castle Ablaze–Scots See Ill Omen-Snow-Clad Swiss Alps Glow–Short-Wave Radio Halts The most brilliant display of an aurora borealis in fifty years held Britons spellbound over a wide area of this country tonight. From 6:30 to 8:30 P.M. the people of London watched two magnificent arcs rising in the east and west, from which radiated pulsating beams like searchlights in dark red, greenish blue and purple. [End of First Paragraph] Buy This Article, Single Article $3.95 select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F00817FB355A157A93C4AB178AD85F4C8385F9

Other articles
Los Angeles Times, Jan 26, 1938 Aurora Borealis Upsets Europeans pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/743927742.html?dids=743927742:743927742&FMT=CITE&FMTS=CITE:AI&date=Jan+26%2C+1938&author=&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&desc=Aurora+Borealis+Upsets+Europeans&pqatl=google

Chicago Daily Tribune, Jan 26, 1938Aurora Borealis Glows in Widest Area Since 1709Abstract (Document Summary) Radio and telegraphic communication was disrupted and persons in many parts of the world were awed tonight as the aurora borealis [northern lights] flamed brilliantly farther south than the phenomenon ever has been seen by this generation.
pqasb.pqarchiver.com/chicagotribune/access/441756312.html?dids=441756312:441756312&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&date=Jan+26%2C+1938&author=&pub=Chicago+Daily+Tribune&desc=AURORA+BOREALIS+GLOWS+IN+WIDEST+AREA+SINCE+1709&pqatl=google

 

[AveSantaMaria]

When I read St. Maria Faustina’s Diary, I was struck by the fact that she said that God held his hand back from punishing the world because of her prayer. I was also struck by the fact that she mentioned that one city would receive wrath of God for punishment of its sins, like the punishment of Sodom and Gomorrah. In the footnotes, it was suggested that this city was one of the cities bombed during the Holocaust. She died at age of 33 - just like Christ - on October 5, 1938. In March of 1938, Hitler invaded his first country in WWII. On January 1939, Hitler announced in a public speech, “If international-finance Jewry inside and outside Europe should succeed once more in plunging the nations into yet another world war, the consequences will not be the Bolshevization of the earth and thereby the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe.” “Justice is mine,” says the Lord, I will repay."

39 +One day Jesus told me that He would cause a chastisement to fall upon the most beautiful city in our country [probably Warsaw]. This chastisement would be that with which God had punished Sodom and Gomorrah. I saw the great wrath of God and a shudder pierced my heart. I prayed in silence. After a moment, Jesus said to me, My child, unite yourself closely to Me during the Sacrifice and offer My Blood and My Wounds to My Father in expiation for the sins of that city. Repeat this without interruption throughout the entire Holy Mass. Do this for seven days. On the seventh day I saw Jesus in a bright cloud and began to beg Him to look upon the city and upon our whole country. Jesus looked [down] graciously. When I saw the kindness of Jesus, I began to beg His blessing. Immediately Jesus said, For your sake I bless the entire country. And He made a big sign of the cross over our country. Seeing the goodness of God, a great joy filled my soul.

Diary of St. Maria Faustina Divine Mercy in My Soul saint-faustina.com/Diary/DMIMS1.shtml

If we receive nuclear war on our country, it may be because of the 45 million people killed as a result of Roe v. Wade. As Mother Teresa said, “The fruit of abortion is nuclear war. What you do to the unborn child, you do to Jesus.”

We must pray without ceasing and sacrifice for the intentions of Christ, Mary, and Joseph.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Logical reasons also exist for beliving in the Resurrection. Read the book Case for Christ by Lee Strobel, a former atheist turned Protestant pastor who did an investigation into Christianity in order to disprove it. He is also a former legal editor of the Chicago Legal Tribune and Yale Law graduate.

As well as for beliving in Catholicism over other Christian denominations:

Scripture is infalliable because it was listed at the Synod of Hippo chaired by St. Augustine in the 300A.D.s and then later listed and disputed at the Synod of Rome and Synod of Carthage. However, during the Council of Trent during the Protestant Reformation it was first declared and made infalliable. Here is a link to the Council of Trent declaration that makes it infalliable. ewtn.com/library/councils/trent4.htm If it is the Magisterium that tells us that Scripture is infalliable and rejects other Scriptures that propose to be true then how can we then reject the Magisterium and still lay claim to our belief in Scripture as infalliable. I understand the Magisterium to be a continuation of the Church that Christ established chaired by Peter that he said would not fail, which is what gave it the authority to declare something infalliable or not, such as Scripture.

The vicar of Christ is believed to be established from the living Church that Christ founded. We trace him directly to Peter - this means that just like a new apostle was chosen to replace Judas, with every death of the Bishop of Rome, Peter, a new Pope has been chosen from the earliest of times to replace the old Pope. The Pope leads the Church and is the one who has the moral authority to declare something like Scripture infalliable or not. He has the authority to choose the canon of Scripture and refute such as the Gospel of Peter or Gospel of Mary Magdalene.

The fact that there are disputes between Protestants and Catholics may just be an accumulation of division that we inherit because of people who left the Church that Christ established. Luther established a new Church and dispute certain books. He tried to remove Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelations. These books are called Luther’s Antilegomena and stated that Revelation is “neither apostolic nor prophetic” and stated that “Christ is neither taught nor known in it.” Anglicans established a new Church when they didn’t like the rules on divorce in England. Mormons established a new Church. Seventh Day Adventists established a new Church. Muslims established a new Church. Now the gay bishop is establishing a new Church, splitting the Anglican church even further. Here is a papal timeline. faithfirst.com/html/popeJohn/timeline/timeline.html

We have His Holiness St. Peter ca. 64, His Holiness St. Linus 67-76, His Holiness St. Anacletus (Cletus), 76-88, His Holiness St. Clement I, 88-97, His Holiness St. Evaristus, 97-105 and so on to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

Hello, I’m sure this isn’t the first time this has been asked but recently while thinking alone I’ve started having doubts about the concept of faith in general.

My consern is that faith seems illogical and untestable and thus makes it difficult to believe in. For example someone could believe that it was sentient dragons flying outside of our demension that created the universe and nothing could be said to prove otherwise; you can even claim by faith that these beings simply existed before anything else without a single means of description. Then in every religion their have been events considered miracles so that pretty much leaves faith exactly were it was; a belief that has no means of being proven. Reading over it I know I sound like some pompous atheist attempting to rattle on the forum’s cage but if anyone’s seen my post count here I’m simply a discouraged, hollow, poor excuse for a Catholic…

Anyway tomarrow I’ll be heading to Confession even if I only half-heartedly think I’m worthy of it… With Lent coming up I would appreciate any answers so hopefully I can recover spiritually by Ash Wendsday.

Just pray for more faith. You will get it. If you have a medical problem that’s always different. A great book is - The Faith Explained by Trese. Or maybe reading about Fatima will help?
You can try reading some arguments that may help on my website as in my signature www.heavensmessengers.org and go to the inherit eternal life link. There’s some great info there if you have 10 mins. God bless. I’ll pray for you:thumbsup: