Faith

[ElizabethAnne]

edwinG,

From what I can gather of your posts, you seem to be implying that Catholics follow a set of rules, found in the Catechism, and do not have faith first, so they are in danger of enternal damnation. The Catechism is not a list of rules. The Church has no list of rules for salvation that must be followed in a certain way. The Church provides guidance and guidelines that are scriptural and meant to help Catholics on their spiritual journey.

So Catholics, first of all, do have faith because BOTH faith and works are necessary for salvation. It does not matter which one comes first because they are connected to each other and are required. You argue that someone who does God’s work and has no faith in Him will not be saved. No one here is disagreeing with that, but it is not proof that faith comes first. For instance, faith without good works is empty, but that does not prove that good works come first.

God bless.

 

[edwinG]

Huiou Theou:

Edwin,

I have done no more than to match the tone you have used with me. I too have emphatic feelings about God the Father, and am aware of the complexity of his creation.
If you believe I am mocking you, then what I am I mocking you about?

God teach you Edwin, for I cannot.
Suffer in love.

Hi Huiou Theou,
Your lack of Christianity shows through. If you believe I have been mocking you, then in Christ you should not mock me in return. The word says " Do not repay evil with evil but with good"
As Christ is my witness, I have only been sincere with you.
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

ElizabethAnne:

edwinG,

From what I can gather of your posts, you seem to be implying that Catholics follow a set of rules, found in the Catechism, and do not have faith first, so they are in danger of enternal damnation. The Catechism is not a list of rules. The Church has no list of rules for salvation that must be followed in a certain way. The Church provides guidance and guidelines that are scriptural and meant to help Catholics on their spiritual journey.

So Catholics, first of all, do have faith because BOTH faith and works are necessary for salvation. It does not matter which one comes first because they are connected to each other and are required. You argue that someone who does God’s work and has no faith in Him will not be saved. No one here is disagreeing with that, but it is not proof that faith comes first. For instance, faith without good works is empty, but that does not prove that good works come first.

God bless.

Hi ElizabethAnne,
Thank you for joining the thread.
I am sorry but I do not understand that part of your post which I have altered to bold type. Can you help me please.
Yes I agree that Catholics have faith, but if you follow the guidelines you have and not the leading of the Holy Spirit, which is God’s will for your life and is your work in Him, your cross, then you are not exercising your faith. Faith comes in degrees, and can grow with use. I am begging you to exercise your faith so that you may grow in Him. Exercise your faith, by following the leading of the beautiful Holy Spirit.
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[Ignatius]

edwinG:

Hi ElizabethAnne,
Thank you for joining the thread.
I am sorry but I do not understand that part of your post which I have altered to bold type. Can you help me please.
Yes I agree that Catholics have faith, but if you follow the guidelines you have and not the leading of the Holy Spirit, which is God’s will for your life and is your work in Him, your cross, then you are not exercising your faith. Faith comes in degrees, and can grow with use. I am begging you to exercise your faith so that you may grow in Him. Exercise your faith, by following the leading of the beautiful Holy Spirit.
Walk in love
edwinG

Let’s see, Jesus founded the Church, gave it the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, said whatsoever it binds on earth shall be bound in heaven, protected it for 2000 yrs with the guidance of the Holy Spirit so the gates of hell could not prevail against it and made it the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

But we should listen to the inerrant interpretation of edwinG? Is that about it?

Jesus Christ founded the Church and sent the Holy Spirit to guide it. I pray that the Holy Spirit will remove the scales from your eyes and let you see the Truth of His Church.

May the love of God, the peace of Jesus Christ, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you.

 

[edwinG]

TheGarg:

I agree, and I have stressed so. In my equation for Salvation i defined Faith and Works as two different, but equal variables. We do miss works, when we sin, that is usually because we didn’t listen to the Holy Spirit. Obeying God’s Law is a work also. Our outward obediance to God is a silent ministry to others, that is why our actions in any given situation are critical.

Monkey see monkey do, for a simply analogy If a group of kids see me steal a car, i have scandalized them against God’s Law and will be held accountable…

The bolded statement above is True, but we must still atone for this sin, which is why we confess our sins, be it to a priest, or to God himself. Our repentance determines wheter or not God condemns us for our “miss”.

Hi TheGarg,
I missed this post before. Sorry about that.
Yes, I am in complete agreement with what you say here. I might add, confessing to the one ( be if geographically possible) who you sinned against is very important, humbling , healing and a huge incentive to be more careful in future.
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

edwinG:

Huiou Theou,
Oh Huiou, How you have suffered. My heart goes out to you. I know people suffer more than this every second of every day but I am not talking to them at this moment. I have to confess, my life has always been blessed and my problems could fit into a thimble.
However God is our Almighty Father and nothing about Him is “petty”. And His wisdom for our salvation which is in Christ and obedience to His will, can not be lined up with “petty.”
I understand what you are saying, but it is His wisdom which decided our path. It is almighty not petty
With all of His almighty mercies available to you Huiou Theou, I tell you that within 24 hours Christ your teacher and mine will demonstrate to you that “petty” is not an appropriate word.
My love and my heart are with you,
walk in love

edwinG

Hi,
I need to answer my own post. For you to understand please look at the 3+ sentences in bold type.
Number 1 Story About 3-4 weeks ago I went to bed at about 3.30 and at about 6 I was woken and told to go out to heal. I have never been told this, but I have been praying to heal in Christ’s Holy Name. I was quite tired but knew I had to go, so I followed my normal routine and went to the bus stop and caught the first bus. This bus goes past our church so I said to God that if the bus blew its horn three times ( an unlikey event) I would get off at the church, if it didnt I would go to the end of the bus run. I ended up at the terminus which is a large local market. I am familar with this area and I walked down a street, I came to a place where beggars often sit. There was one there I had not seen before, a young boy, maybe 9, who had a very hunched back. He was sitting on the ground. I put some money in his hand and squatted beside him and spoke to him about Jesus. I doubt very much he could speak or understand English, but from experiences, I knew that the Holy Spirit would translate if He was with me. Then I commanded him to stand in Jesus name. He didnt and I gently took his arm and as I was applying very gentle upward pressure, a thought flew into my head “paedophile.” I let go of the child immediately, stood up and left. Then I wondered if I had been scared off by satan.
Number 2 story. A friend of mine in Australia lived with her father as he was old and not too well. Then he had a set back and knew his time was very short and he wanted to die in England. These people are not Christian. So he caught a plane to Canada where he also had a family, saw them and flew on but was off loaded at St John’s I think in Canada and put into hospital, where he stayed for several days. Then one of his 3 Australian children, my friend, a daughter went to Canada and accompanied him back to Australia. He was up and down in a hospital in Australia. AT this time, I suggested to this lady that she address her email to my wife as they liked each others company and I had a feeling my wife enjoyed receiving emails. She otherwise doesnt receive emails on any regular basis. So the friend sent her emails to Tui my wife. Now in Thailand they celebrate their New Year around the 13,14 and 15 of April and I told this friend I would be away for 3 days the night before we left for a holiday. Now early in the morning I woke and had a spiritful prayer which said the father would be kept alive for 2 years to bring the family to Christ. I emailed this to my friend, that is on the Tuesday morning. Later that morning Tui looked in her mail and found an email saying that the father had passed away on Saturday.
Number 3 story. Huiou Theou. Now before I stated to him about Christ teaching him within 24 hours that “petty” was not a word to use in connection with Christ I fasted for a day. I believed I was following the Holy Spirit. The 24 hours has come and gone.
I cried out to God about these incidents and He answered me.
These things did not come to pass because it was not the Holy Spirit leading me. I had been led astray.
Now I believed in all earnestness, and in each case there was spiritual guidance. I recognise that. But I have no wisdom to discern.
I am here confessing this to you.

What am I to do? Well, I could throw my faith away, but that is childish. I have a choice, live in the flesh ( which profits nothing) or continue as I have been doing. There are only two ways to live, in the flesh or by the spirit. I choose to continue, trusting in Him, knowing that He is aware of my lack of discernment, but that I also choose to stay walking in the Spirit. On one other occasion I have been deceived. Millions of times, I have been correct and blessed. I thought my faith was down the tubes, but strangely I feel joy. Satan wont stop my walk, but Christ will rescue me.
I give glory to you Christ my Lord for your love and compassion.

Huiou Theou, you are in Christ’s hands, as we all are.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

edwinG:

Hi,
I am here confessing this to you.

.

edwinG

Hi,
It is I again, some hours later. After summitting the above post, I dressed and went to the bus stop to catch a bus. I was walking towards the bus shelter and received this message. Christ was testing me. I have been preaching, confession to one another, ( just read my postings) and Christ put it to me to see if I was sincere. Well, I was aglow, flying high on the wings of His wisdom. How beautiful He is in His wisdom. The 3 incidents were each an occasion when the Holy Spirit lifted His protection to allow satan to attack me, hoping that I would lose my faith. Then Christ used this misinformation to see if I was 1) sincere about confessing to those who were affected and 2) strong in my faith. By the almighty grace that flows from Him I was given victory on both issues. If hubble could photograph my joy it would be the number one photo on the hubble site.
I feel WOW. I only misinterpretted His leading because He withdrew His protection to allow this test.
So let me reiterate, please confess your sins to the one you sin against. This has great healing powers.
Please follow the Holy Spirit. Christ did. Read Paul, after he was spotted he went away by himself , I think for 3 years , and was taught by Christ then came to Jerusalem only for I think 11 days. It was 14 years later before He visited Jerusalem again.
You only have 2 choices. Walk in the flesh or walk in the spirit. Walking in the flesh is following rules or regulations, walking in the spirit is following the leading of the beautiful Holy Spirit. No rules, and therefore no sin. The Holy Spirit wont lead you to sin. I sinned by following evil spirits but in my heart I know my confession to you and to God is acceptable to Him.In obedience you have an iron clad guarantee. No one ever managed , except maybe Noah, Job and Daniel, to be obedient to the law. Job said God visited Him everyday, so I guess he was following the Holy Spirit as well. Do you think that you can earn your way to God and by-pass His leading. We are all led, even if we are unaware, but to actively participate brings peace, joy and abundance in all things. Christ has healed everyone, everyone has an abundant life, the problem is not enough people are creating the circumstances where this healing and abundance can be delivered. By obeying Him and only by obeying Him can we do those things which release health and abundance in our lives. He wont lead us astray. He loves us, gave His Son for us and wants desperately to give all good things to us. We just have to agree with Him and not want our own way. Please seek His will in your life.
Pray for Huiou Theou, he may be in desperate need.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[ElizabethAnne]

edwinG,

You asked me to explain myself more clearly:
“You argue that someone who does God’s work and has no faith in Him will not be saved. No one here is disagreeing with that, but it is not proof that faith comes first. For instance, faith without good works is empty, but that does not prove that good works come first.”

You have said in previous posts that faith must come before works. Others have told you that they go together, i.e. one does not come before the other. My point was that just because faith is needed for salvation does not prove that it comes before works. We would say that good works are necessary for salvation, but that does not prove that they come “first” either. I’m not even sure why you feel that putting faith first is so important? Do you deny that good works are necessary to show love for and faith in God by doing His will?

I think it is very unfair for you to assume that Catholics follow the guidelines of the Church blindly and do not seek guidance from the Holy Spirit. I pray to the Holy Spirit and ask for guidance in all I say and do. My prayers have led me to scrutinize the teachings of the Church over and over again, and God has given me the grace to understand them for myself. Praise God! It has been a process by which my faith in Him was greatly deepend. The Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit as well, challenges Catholics to live their lives in the deepest faith possible, constantly reminding them of the universal call to holiness. The teachings of the Church are often misunderstood by people, and I don’t believe anyone could believe in them truly without guidance from the Holy Spirit.

You said, “Faith comes in degrees, and can grow with use. I am begging you to exercise your faith so that you may grow in Him. Exercise your faith, by following the leading of the beautiful Holy Spirit.”

Again, I think you are being unfair, but this time to me. You imply that because I am Catholic, I have a weaker or smaller faith that needs to grow. You beg me to exercise my faith, implying that I am not already doing so, that I am not following the Holy Spirit. First, I do not believe it is your place to judge my faith, but even more important is that you could hardly know the amount of faith I have from one post on an online forum.

Many people on this forum can attest to the fact that not only they, but many other Cathoics, have very strong faith, centered in God – the Trinity, which includes the Holy Spirit.

God bless.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Oh Edwin!

How I long to describe what confusion you are. You have accused me now twice. First, when I tell you that God allows pettyness in the world, you think I am mocking you.

Now, when I have asked you what you think I mock you about, you accuse me of returning evil for evil.

Edwin, No, No, No.
That’s the devils work – accusing someone of evil for doing good.
I rejoice when I am persecuted for the name of Jesus!
I follow in my master’s footprints!

I have not mocked you. I have used your language. I did not say it was evil! I am so sorry Edwin that you would think your own language was evil, or even think that I thought that.

No, Edwin.

You prophecied to me concerning my being given something to show I erred in calling what man does petty. It has been 24 hours, it has been 48 hours.
Edwin, I don’t know a time in my life where I was looking and found absolutely nothing different. Over this last two days,
everything is just as it was. Everthing that has been still is.
It seems more petty now than before. I have seen nothing but pettyness. Emptiness of prophecy.

Oh! Edwin, I am so sorry you were given a false prophecy.
The devil is allowed to test all of us! Sifted like wheat.
burned like chaff.

You really shouldn’t trust spirits without putting what they say to the test. Jesus is true! He knows all, and can not lie.

Thank you for your prayers, Edwin. I love them. When you intercede for me like Mary, I know that God listens.

I have lost twelve teeth, and regained them. Loosing the teeth has never been a useful thing, but God uses all things for good in those who love him. In the past twenty four hours, the teeth have been as useless as ever. Perhaps now, they will be of use to you. To show you something new.

May the lord grant you peace.
pray in love, Edwin.

 

[edwinG]

ElizabethAnne:

edwinG,

You asked me to explain myself more clearly:
“You argue that someone who does God’s work and has no faith in Him will not be saved. No one here is disagreeing with that, but it is not proof that faith comes first. For instance, faith without good works is empty, but that does not prove that good works come first.”

You have said in previous posts that faith must come before works. Others have told you that they go together, i.e. one does not come before the other. My point was that just because faith is needed for salvation does not prove that it comes before works. We would say that good works are necessary for salvation, but that does not prove that they come “first” either. I’m not even sure why you feel that putting faith first is so important? Do you deny that good works are necessary to show love for and faith in God by doing His will?

I think it is very unfair for you to assume that Catholics follow the guidelines of the Church blindly and do not seek guidance from the Holy Spirit. I pray to the Holy Spirit and ask for guidance in all I say and do. My prayers have led me to scrutinize the teachings of the Church over and over again, and God has given me the grace to understand them for myself. Praise God! It has been a process by which my faith in Him was greatly deepend. The Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit as well, challenges Catholics to live their lives in the deepest faith possible, constantly reminding them of the universal call to holiness. The teachings of the Church are often misunderstood by people, and I don’t believe anyone could believe in them truly without guidance from the Holy Spirit.

You said, “Faith comes in degrees, and can grow with use. I am begging you to exercise your faith so that you may grow in Him. Exercise your faith, by following the leading of the beautiful Holy Spirit.”

Again, I think you are being unfair, but this time to me. You imply that because I am Catholic, I have a weaker or smaller faith that needs to grow. You beg me to exercise my faith, implying that I am not already doing so, that I am not following the Holy Spirit. First, I do not believe it is your place to judge my faith, but even more important is that you could hardly know the amount of faith I have from one post on an online forum.

Many people on this forum can attest to the fact that not only they, but many other Cathoics, have very strong faith, centered in God – the Trinity, which includes the Holy Spirit.

God bless.

Hi Elizabeth Anne,
I thank you for your direct and sincere post.
As good a way as I can see it, I look at faith as a fruit tree, and the works as fruit. The tree comes first and does not work to produce fruit. The increase is from God. One cant have fruit if there is no tree. One can have the tree, but it does not necessarly bear fruit
If the tree does not bear fruit ( works ) it should be cut down and burnt. This faith is dead. Faith without works is dead.
This is how I see faith.
Well I apologise for saying you dont exercise your faith.
I have asked repeatedly for testimony of how people have exercised their faith.It is very hard to find anyone. There is plenty of faith in Mary and witnessing to her, but I am only interested in following the lead of the Holy Spirit.

Now I am asking you. Please witness.

Your story will certainly bring joy to my heart, as I am never tired of hearing how people have exercised their faith.
See in my confession.Many instances of my exercising my faith and believing in Him, following His leading.

walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Huiou Theou:

Oh Edwin!

How I long to describe what confusion you are. You have accused me now twice. First, when I tell you that God allows pettyness in the world, you think I am mocking you.

Now, when I have asked you what you think I mock you about, you accuse me of returning evil for evil.

Edwin, No, No, No.
That’s the devils work – accusing someone of evil for doing good.
I rejoice when I am persecuted for the name of Jesus!
I follow in my master’s footprints!

I have not mocked you. I have used your language. I did not say it was evil! I am so sorry Edwin that you would think your own language was evil, or even think that I thought that.

No, Edwin.

You prophecied to me concerning my being given something to show I erred in calling what man does petty. It has been 24 hours, it has been 48 hours.
Edwin, I don’t know a time in my life where I was looking and found absolutely nothing different. Over this last two days,
everything is just as it was. Everthing that has been still is.
It seems more petty now than before. I have seen nothing but pettyness. Emptiness of prophecy.

Oh! Edwin, I am so sorry you were given a false prophecy.
The devil is allowed to test all of us! Sifted like wheat.
burned like chaff.

You really shouldn’t trust spirits without putting what they say to the test. Jesus is true! He knows all, and can not lie.

Thank you for your prayers, Edwin. I love them. When you intercede for me like Mary, I know that God listens.

I have lost twelve teeth, and regained them. Loosing the teeth has never been a useful thing, but God uses all things for good in those who love him. In the past twenty four hours, the teeth have been as useless as ever. Perhaps now, they will be of use to you. To show you something new.

May the lord grant you peace.
pray in love, Edwin.

Hi Huiou Theou,
I think you duck in and out between the trees, moving in the shadows.
I hope I am wrong.
Time will tell, you too are in my prayers.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I am glad to see you still faith-filled. Many who are given false prophecies despair.

Works TO DO!

---

Believe in God.
Trust in God.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Tell Edwin I love him as a brother.

May the Lord grant you piety, knowledge, hope, and Wisdom.
Rejoice in love, Edwin.

 

[J.W.B]

“If anyone asserts that we can, by our natural powers, think as we ought, or choose any good pertaining to the salvation of eternal life… without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit…he is misled by a heretical spirit…” The Second Council of Orange 529A.D.

“…Man…is not able, by his own free-will, without the grace of God, to move himself unto justice in His sight.”

“If anyone saith that man may be justified before God by his own WORKS, whether done through the teaching of human nature or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.” Council of Trent 1545-63.

“What merit of man is there before grace by which he can achieve grace, as only grace works every one of our good merits in us, and as God, when He crowns our merits, crowns nothing else but His own gifts?” St. Augustine.

Maybe this will put all you Protestants who believe Catholicism teaches a works/grace gospel to rest. The Catholic Church has always been against and has spoken out against the heresy of Pelagianism.

As for what comes first, well lets take the case of one who is raised as a Budda, or even just someone who has never heard the gospel before. She is a very kind person, loves people, doesn’t cheat on her husband, never steals, and just enjoys helping others who are poor or who are suffering, yet she has no idea that she is in need of a savior nor does she know about Christ. But she does commit works of charity and kindness WITH HEARTFELT DEVOTION and not pride. But one day a missionary tells her about Christ, for a few moments she ponders on it and then comes to accept Him and has faith in Him that He died for her sins and was raised again on the third day. But whoa, all of the kind acts Christ tells us to obey she already obeys them and has always obeyed them because she just likes to help the needy. Her works were present before she had ANY faith in Christ.

 

[J.W.B]

Faith and Works go hand in hand. They are not seperated. It’s sad how many believe that “Oh I believe Christ died for my sins, and I aknowledge my sins before God and I am sorry for them. But God understands that I’m a sinner, still in my sinful body. I know that going to the strip club and lusting after women is sinful, but I can’t help it, I’m a sinner by nature. Perhaps in the future I’ll become stronger and conqer that sin, but for now I cannot stop it, but God understands. As long as I have my Faith in Christ, as long as I believe He died for my sins I’ll be ok.” I know though not all Protestant Churches believe like this, they say that you never had a true faith to begin with.

As crazy as this sounds, my old Protestant Church I attended before I converted to Catholicism, believed like this. “You know your saved if you’ve prayed the sinners prayer, but are you walking in the light?”

Christ clearly says that not all who call Him Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom but only those who do His will.

Faith is giving our entire life to Christ and following Him. C.S. Lewis said Faith and Works are like sissors, it won’t funtion with only one blade. (I forget the exact words but remember his meaning.)

God give you peace

 

[edwinG]

Huiou Theou:

I am glad to see you still faith-filled. Many who are given false prophecies despair.

Works TO DO!

---

Believe in God.
Trust in God.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Tell Edwin I love him as a brother.

May the Lord grant you piety, knowledge, hope, and Wisdom.
Rejoice in love, Edwin.

Hi Huiou Theou,
Thanks Tuiou Theou, My love is for you as Christ taught. Without doubt God’s wisdom and His way is that love will conquor all, and if we seek His will and want wisdom the best place to start is love.

We had new neighbours and they filled our rubbish bins shortly after arriving. The rubbish is collected twice a week but our bins were not collected. I live with my wife in an enclosed estate. Tui my wife went next door and spoke to the people in a very friendly manner and the people said they were not aware they had to pay a yearly facility fee. So my wife told them how much it cost and where they could pay it inside the estate, which was at the swimming pool. The following week our bins were still full so two more pickups had passed us by.
Love is the key, Instead of speaking to the neighbours again and risk causing some friction, I prayed to our intercessor, God , in Christ’s name. He delivered, First one bin that week and then the next bin after prayer in the second week. We also prayed for and were rid of a most unusual occurance. Our place was invaded by large fat pesky flys. Possibly there was also something attracting the flys inside the neighbours townhouse as well. There was no smell from the road.
Praise Christ, who lives to make our lives peaceful, as long as we seek His will. This week He also showed me that what you pray for will be tested. It of course started with confession , one to another. I also hand out tracts outside a supermarket for a little while on Saturdays. I always pray that the Holy Spirit would sort out the people so that only the people who needed them would take them, as they were valuable not only with the word but also the expense as we are not a wealthy church. This week, I noticed as I was leaving, on two occasions, tracts in shopping trolleys, so I picked these up and re-distributed them. Then it came to my mind, I ask the Holy Spirit to do this, help stop the waste, so then I am tested to see if I will do as I ask Him to do for me. Otherwise I am at least foolish, lazy or a hypocrit.
This had me thinking about all my prayers. I havent yet had time to meditate on this fully, but I realise , I had better be careful what I ask for. Do I ask for health, well, do I practise healthy living according to my own standards, or am I too lazy. Why should He help me if I wont make a start by helping myself. Eating less, exercising etc. He is not our servant, we are His, but He is Godly in His love which is our blessing.
Huiou Theou, are you angry with God? I would love to be a close and loving friend.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

“If anyone asserts that we can, by our natural powers, think as we ought, or choose any good pertaining to the salvation of eternal life… without the illumination and inspiration of the Holy Spirit…he is misled by a heretical spirit…” The Second Council of Orange 529A.D.

“…Man…is not able, by his own free-will, without the grace of God, to move himself unto justice in His sight.”

“If anyone saith that man may be justified before God by his own WORKS, whether done through the teaching of human nature or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.” Council of Trent 1545-63.

“What merit of man is there before grace by which he can achieve grace, as only grace works every one of our good merits in us, and as God, when He crowns our merits, crowns nothing else but His own gifts?” St. Augustine.

Maybe this will put all you Protestants who believe Catholicism teaches a works/grace gospel to rest. The Catholic Church has always been against and has spoken out against the heresy of Pelagianism.

As for what comes first, well lets take the case of one who is raised as a Budda, or even just someone who has never heard the gospel before. She is a very kind person, loves people, doesn’t cheat on her husband, never steals, and just enjoys helping others who are poor or who are suffering, yet she has no idea that she is in need of a savior nor does she know about Christ. But she does commit works of charity and kindness WITH HEARTFELT DEVOTION and not pride. But one day a missionary tells her about Christ, for a few moments she ponders on it and then comes to accept Him and has faith in Him that He died for her sins and was raised again on the third day. But whoa, all of the kind acts Christ tells us to obey she already obeys them and has always obeyed them because she just likes to help the needy. Her works were present before she had ANY faith in Christ.

Hi JWB,
Jeremiah 31:32 " Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a **husband **to them, says the Lord,
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days says the Lord: I will put my Law in their minds and write it on their heart and I will be their God and they shall be My people.
34 No more shall every man teach his neigbour, and every man his brother, saying Know the Lord, for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin, I will remember no more.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy, He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Not ‘by’ but ‘of’. You dont have to be ‘Christian’ to follow the Holy Spirit and He only produces good works. Satan doesnt… God loves everyone. You Do need to believe and bow down to Christ but everyone will do this. On this we will all be equal, belief in Christ. Being a Christian in this world, is a blessing that non-Christians don’t benefit from during this earthly life. He continually saves us and gives us peace etc etc etc and these blessings are not available to all except those who obey Him. The lady in your story is also a member of Israel as she believed. From the beginning of time.

This is not scriptural but I believe the animals are led by the Holy Spirit as well. I believe we will be amazed when the truth is revealed. Of course not all animals obey as well. The tsunami was an example. It seems, I can’t verify this, that a vast host of animals wanted to be away from the sea the day that the tsunami rolled in. Now none of these animals or their forbearers were trained in tsunami ecacuation. My money is on God’s love, and His Holy Spirit, who made all of creation, with the word of course.
What do you think.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

J.W.B.:

Faith and Works go hand in hand. They are not seperated. It’s sad how many believe that “Oh I believe Christ died for my sins, and I aknowledge my sins before God and I am sorry for them. But God understands that I’m a sinner, still in my sinful body. I know that going to the strip club and lusting after women is sinful, but I can’t help it, I’m a sinner by nature. Perhaps in the future I’ll become stronger and conqer that sin, but for now I cannot stop it, but God understands. As long as I have my Faith in Christ, as long as I believe He died for my sins I’ll be ok.” I know though not all Protestant Churches believe like this, they say that you never had a true faith to begin with.

As crazy as this sounds, my old Protestant Church I attended before I converted to Catholicism, believed like this. “You know your saved if you’ve prayed the sinners prayer, but are you walking in the light?”

Christ clearly says that not all who call Him Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom but only those who do His will.

Faith is giving our entire life to Christ and following Him. C.S. Lewis said Faith and Works are like sissors, it won’t funtion with only one blade. (I forget the exact words but remember his meaning.)

God give you peace

Hi J.W.B.
This is a difficult question. I like to believe that most are saved. But I certainly have large doubts. Another thing that is on my mind is that the Holy Jerusalem coming down from heaven is only 1500 miles by 1500 miles by 1500 miles and the light will be there from God so those not living here, will be in the outer darkness as there is no sun or moon. Living outside the Holy Jerusalem is not going to be much fun, what with the sulphur fires and darkness. I ask myself how many people living in mansions and in less glorious accommodation can live in this size space, bearing in mind gardens, rivers etc. Not all the world since creation is my guess.
The jews didnt leave Egypt until there were enough people to go into the promised land. That is what Christ is waiting for, enough people to fill the Holy Jerusalem and we still have tribulation and then ‘1000’ plus years. This scares me to believe the path really is narrow. That is why I am not taking any chances and clinging to His will.Only Him and His will. I dont want to be sidetracked by any “good sounding wisdom” If it was good enough for the desciples and Paul, it is good enough for me. I dont want any addtions apart from what the Holy Spirit teaches me.
Note the quotation of mine on my answer to your other post, where God alludes to not needing anyone else.
walk in love
edwinG

 

[J.W.B]

I’m glad to hear you say in your previous post that God’s blessings are for “those who OBEY Him.” Yes, every single one of our good works result from the Holy Spirit. It brings us faith AND good works. Faith itself is a work:

“And this is His COMMANDMENT, That we should BELIEVE on the name of His son, Jesus Christ, as He gave us COMMANDMENT,” 1- 'st John 3:23.

“Then they said to Him, ‘What must we do to do the WORKS of God?’ Jesus answered and said unto them, 'This is the WORK of God, the ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.” John 6:28-29.

“Remembering without ceasing your WORK of FAITH…” 1’st Thessalonians 1:3.

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now COMMANDETH all men every where to REPENT.” Acts 17:30.

It is all something that WE appear to be doing, whether it’s a prayer, repenting (making up in our minds that we will turn away from sin) deciding that we do believe in Christ, giving to the poor, etc. Yet within all of this and all of ourselves, the Holy Spirit is doing these things through us. We are merely cooperating with God. God works all Faith and works within us and we can take no part in any credit for it. As St. Agustine said “God crowns His own merits.”

There are many NON-Christians out there who have a better stand in before God than many other self-rightoues Christians have. The problem for Christians is they have a hard time living as Christ did and seem to care more about a “who’s right” and “who’s wrong” doctrine. I would rather have a heart of compassion than a mind of a genuiess.

God give you peace.

 

[Philthy]

edwinG:

Firstly the 2000 rules comes from listening to the commentary on EWTN after JohnPaul11 passed on. I am not sure but I thought they may have been talking about the catechism. You would be able to answer this for me.

Hi Edwin - I have always admired your good natured responses though I don’t think we have actually interacted.
The “2000” rules are the paragraph numbers in the catechism so you know where to find each topic - they are listed numerically by paragraph. You really should get a copy - the section alone on prayer is worth the price of the entire book.

edwinG:

It is faith which produces the works jax. not the works which produce the faith. You can not be saved by works. First comes faith, it is the faith which saves and this faith leads to work which is in accordance to God’s will.

Where are you going with this Ed? No one believes you are saved by works ALONE. How many times do we have to go over the faith alone thing? What exactly IS faith ALONE? Do you mean belief? I personally don’t believe faith and works can be separated in the manner you may be attempting to separate them. Certainly scripture - if your honest about it - bluntly states that faith without works is dead and that you are NOT justified by faith alone. Is this not simply a “leftover” from the indulgence abuses that were going on 500 years ago, against church teaching? The Catholic church does not teach salvation by works apart from faith - get over it.
Now I have a question for you: How, exactly, do you know that you yourself have faith? If your faith is less than perfect, how do you know this?

edwinG:

walk in love
edwinG

Exactly ed - this is living faith! Im sure you know that Christ commands us to forgive others. In addition, he tells us that if we don’t forgive others their sins against us, then neither will our Heavenly Father forgive us our sins. We need to cooperate with the Grace he gives us - otherwise our sins are retained and that is incompatible with attaining salvation. When you really give it some thought you will come to accept that forgiving someone else is a living ACT of faith - aka love. An ACT of FAITH is a good WORK. They go together - even moreso, they are inseparable…

Phil

 

[Huiou_Theou]

This had me thinking about all my prayers. I havent yet had time to meditate on this fully, but I realise , I had better be careful what I ask for. Do I ask for health, well, do I practise healthy living according to my own standards, or am I too lazy. Why should He help me if I wont make a start by helping myself. Eating less, exercising etc. He is not our servant, we are His, but He is Godly in His love which is our blessing.

That is right. And once a servant knows what the loving Lord wants them to do, they should do it. It pleases God whenever someone does a work of his. Including looking after their own body which is the image of Jesus.

If you take care of your teeth, your teeth will last.
Waiting for God to tell you to do what you already know you should do isn’t the best plan. It can be putting God to the test. You yourself will be tested often if you do that.

;-----

No, edwin, I am not angry at God. I don’t even think that possible anymore. I have wallowed in his understanding and love. I can suffer, but I can’t ever blame God.

;------

May you be a faithful servant: “Enter into your master’s joy.”
be steadfast in Love, Edwin.