fallacy

[Ion]

I thought that when I give a little something to a homeless I have a little opportunity to ask couple of questions (maybe 1 min or two) and to say something that might help his soul. My conclusion is that they are physically healthy as the ill ones can’t make it, and their problem is two fold: they have wrong ideas about life what is good or bad and how to live it, and got in a homeless situation and have no resources to get out; probably there are adictions? but I saw kids in their 16/18 begging …
Their main wrong idea is that there were some circumstances that brought them down and everything would be ok if they were given some resources…They can see their wrong ideas in other people, and those people look to have no trouble with them, thus there is nothing wrong with their ideas.
All of them were atheists, i never saw a christian homeless, so atheism is enemy no 1.
But what can you say to them to make them think about themselves rather than about circumstances?
You can’t say much to a successful atheist, but what can you say to an unsuccessful one?

 

[seagal]

I think you’re making a mistake in making such broad assumptions about what circumstances brought a person to homelessness. Yes, often it’s addictions, but not always, it’s not always laziness or expectations of being looked after somehow. Sometimes good, hardworking people find themselves in desperate situations through no fault of their own. So I think the first thing you need to do before you help anyone is to not put all the homeless in the same box. They are as individual as anyone else.****

 

[Ion]

I think you’re making a mistake in making such broad assumptions about what circumstances brought a person to homelessness. Yes, often it’s addictions, but not always, it’s not always laziness or expectations of being looked after somehow. Sometimes good, hardworking people find themselves in desperate situations through no fault of their own. So I think the first thing you need to do before you help anyone is to not put all the homeless in the same box. They are as individual as anyone else.****

O no, it was not about “classifying” or labeling.
I don’t think that begging is something wrong.
And maybe it happened only for me to discuss only with atheists. But my frustration is that even in those circumstances, they do not look interested in an introspection.
What do you say when you give something to a beggar?

 

[JamesATyler]

O no, it was not about “classifying” or labeling.
I don’t think that begging is something wrong.
And maybe it happened only for me to discuss only with atheists. But my frustration is that even in those circumstances, they do not look interested in an introspection.
What do you say when you give something to a beggar?

I don’t say anything to a lot of them. Once I gave some money to a beggar. It was early 90’s. I was on the road a lot and had a shoe box with a bunch of change in it. He was begging at an off ramp in Tampa, Fl. There was a stop light so I ended up next to him. I tried to give him the shoe box and I could see by his face that he was not too happy about it. Then I pointed out to him that it was actually quite a bit of money and he noticed there were many quarters mixed in with the smaller change so he took it. (probably $30)

Well, it just so happened that my hotel was only a block away so I walked over to where he had been an hour later and he was with a group under the overpass drinking bear. After he recognized me, I sat down a drank a beer with them and we talked for a long time. He was actually quite happy to be a bum and said he did alright. He said he probably was able to get 40,000 a year begging and lived a very nomadic life. Maybe an exaggeration that he got that much a year. Anyway, we talked about many things but I didn’t have anything I was trying to teach him. I was just hanging out. I had two beds so I let him take the extra bed in my room. We parted ways the next day. Never saw him again.

 

[oldcelt]

I think you’re making a mistake in making such broad assumptions about what circumstances brought a person to homelessness. Yes, often it’s addictions, but not always, it’s not always laziness or expectations of being looked after somehow. Sometimes good, hardworking people find themselves in desperate situations through no fault of their own. So I think the first thing you need to do before you help anyone is to not put all the homeless in the same box. They are as individual as anyone else.****

I came close to homelessness due to a degenerative condition(s) in my bones. I managed to live for over three years on my savings and recovered sufficiently to return to a more normal life for me…but it was close and I know many people who do not have three years worth of living expenses put away.
Unfortunately, once homeless some people find that it is possible and even grow to like the freedom. Others are the ones mentioned, mentally ill, true social non-conformists, etc.

 

[animalis]

I censure myself as a man who is capable of passing over the poor.

The success of the religious orders such as the Missionaries of Charity and the Missionaries of the Poor, is that their way of life embraces the poor they serve, they become like them and remain in a religious state.

This a mode that is pertinent to those as laity, who by canon law have a both a right and a duty to preach the gospel. The Church is a church of a poor, if a soul wants to fulfill the law of the Church, that they have to do in a dramatic way and thereby be conformed to a mode of poverty.

The Church is very sick. And one of the reasons is it trusts in money rather then the solidarity with the poorest of the poor.

 

[seagal]

O no, it was not about “classifying” or labeling.
I don’t think that begging is something wrong.
And maybe it happened only for me to discuss only with atheists. But my frustration is that even in those circumstances, they do not look interested in an introspection.
What do you say when you give something to a beggar?

I don’t know if you’ve ever been hungry, cold, afraid, and hopeless, but it doesn’t lend itself to much “introspection”. You’re in survival mode, living from one day to the next. It doesn’t matter how you got there, it only matters that you survive.

As for your part, you can tell them you’ll pray for them, and tell them God loves them. They’ll either accept it or they won’t.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I thought that when I give a little something to a homeless I have a little opportunity to ask couple of questions (maybe 1 min or two) and to say something that might help his soul. My conclusion is that they are physically healthy as the ill ones can’t make it, and their problem is two fold: they have wrong ideas about life what is good or bad and how to live it, and got in a homeless situation and have no resources to get out; probably there are adictions? but I saw kids in their 16/18 begging …
Their main wrong idea is that there were some circumstances that brought them down and everything would be ok if they were given some resources…They can see their wrong ideas in other people, and those people look to have no trouble with them, thus there is nothing wrong with their ideas.
All of them were atheists, i never saw a christian homeless, so atheism is enemy no 1.
But what can you say to them to make them think about themselves rather than about circumstances?
You can’t say much to a successful atheist, but what can you say to an unsuccessful one?

You would be correct when you admit that you are not able to say much to a successful atheist. I resent that you think an unsuccessful atheist should have to answer any of your questions or listen to your sales pitch for whatever pittance you are going to give. I give to charity freely with no strings. I would starve before I would talk to someone employing your method of charity.

 

[Ion]

I don’t know if you’ve ever been hungry, cold, afraid, and hopeless, but it doesn’t lend itself to much “introspection”. You’re in survival mode, living from one day to the next. It doesn’t matter how you got there, it only matters that you survive.

As for your part, you can tell them you’ll pray for them, and tell them God loves them. They’ll either accept it or they won’t.

But your mind can do a lot of thinking…
Probably I have too high/too soon expectation. I will give them the RCIA book, and pray for them.

 

[StrawberryJam]

But your mind can do a lot of thinking…
Probably I have too high/too soon expectation. I will give them the RCIA book, and pray for them.

Your mind does a lot of thinking when in survival mode. It goes into overdrive, if you will.
Now, don’t get me wrong, but the way you replied to the poster seagal here, you seem to give the impression that when you are in survival mode you have lots of expendable time to contemplate and navel gaze.

Your bible has some advice in it that you may want to heed. It involves a metaphor about a scorpion and a fish. Please contemplate that lesson.

Finally, let me how the title of your post connects with it. I would also like to ask why you decided to post in the philosophy forum with this, and if you are prepared for questions about your idea that all homeless people are all atheists. You seem to have an all knowingness aura about your statements.