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Anthony_Perlas
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As a Catholic I believe that fallen angels and demons are the same exact thing. I’ve heard from other religions that it’s different. Discuss.
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CaptBell800
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They’re the same thing.
In ancient Sumerian belief, the closest things they had to demons weren’t necessarily bad. They were considered lower than gods, but they weren’t always evil.
In ancient Sumerian belief, the closest things they had to demons weren’t necessarily bad. They were considered lower than gods, but they weren’t always evil.
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Anthony_Perlas
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Thanks! Would this be the same as the pagan worship of Olympians?
I recall watching a movie called “Agora” and one of the phrases they chant is “Kyrie Eleison” - Greek. Then the Christians adapted it. I’ve always wondered, are the idols and icons of the ancient medieval realm the “deceivers” that we call demons today?
Sounds a lot like the movie “Immortals”. Where before “They were called Titans” then the “Olympians took over” then now “Jesus took over”.
Obviously I don’t believe that but it’s still an interesting topic to demystify.
I recall watching a movie called “Agora” and one of the phrases they chant is “Kyrie Eleison” - Greek. Then the Christians adapted it. I’ve always wondered, are the idols and icons of the ancient medieval realm the “deceivers” that we call demons today?
Sounds a lot like the movie “Immortals”. Where before “They were called Titans” then the “Olympians took over” then now “Jesus took over”.
Obviously I don’t believe that but it’s still an interesting topic to demystify.
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skigirl1689
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I was always taught they were the same. Fallen angels rejected God and were cast down into Hell. Thus, they are considered demons.
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Anthony_Perlas
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So kind of like Lucifer vs Satan? Same thing but different terminology (Light bearer vs The Opposer)
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followingtheway
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Yes, the fallen angels became demons and Lucifer became Satan the Devil. The Light Bearer became the Oppposer.
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carmichael2359
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In order to understand this more fully, you’ll need to do some scholarly research. There are many historical books that are ancient, and which rabbis and other Hebrew scholars use. To start with, research the Book of Enoch on the topic The Watchers, as well a the origin of the Nephilim. If your Bible has footnotes for Genesis 6:1-8, it probably says that it’s “a bit of an old myth” inserted for posterity. That same Bible will tell you, in the Preface, however, that the Bible it’s the inspired Word of God, and as such, is Holy Writ. Now yes, there are different kinds of books, with different purposes, but Genesis isn’t an apocalyptic book, not a prophetic book, nor a book of the Law. It has four different sources from different ages. But my experience in Bible study with informed Catholic exegetes who are Scripture scholars has taught me that, lots of times, the Church quietly sweeps what they can’t or don’t want to explain under the title of “It’s not endemic to the Faith.” Soooooo, do your research: there are other Bible references to the Watchers, even in the New Testament. And there are actually scholarly works on fallen angels vs angels who were expelled from Heaven. For the record, the Watchers were imprisoned in the abyss, and are now being guarded and won’t be let loose until the End Times. Wish I could remember the name of the abyss. 
The expunged or kicked out angels were thrown out because, following Lucifer, they tried to rise above God. They are the demons all creation is tormented with. The others sinned by unleashing problems on earth. There’s a difference.
The expunged or kicked out angels were thrown out because, following Lucifer, they tried to rise above God. They are the demons all creation is tormented with. The others sinned by unleashing problems on earth. There’s a difference.
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Karen107
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As the Good angels are Gods army, the fallen angels are the army of satan who are willing to do satans work.
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carmichael2359
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Oh, they’re all bad, as in, "if ya ain’t fer us, yer agin’ us, " absolutely. But their origins and ultimate end are different. The spiritual realm is incredibly complex. The Watchers were the reason wickedness became rife on earth. Not that humankind wasn’t already fallen-it was. But the miseries they unleashed caused the "human hybrids " to be terrible, learn things far sooner than they were supposed to and all at once. The teaching thus is that God sent the Flood to rid the world of these Nephilim, for y the most part, even though some seemed to have survived somehow. It’s very fascinating reading, actually.
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carmichael2359
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Well, understand that in ancient times, there WAS a lot of crossover between the cultures. The Israelites, for example, had a terrible thing for the Canaanite Titus
rituals, and kept switching over. The prophet Jeremiah and the prophet Elijah had one heck of a time setting them straight. And they kept falling back.
There are lots of studies regarding how the Israelite culture and practices were similar. Remember, the region had become very Helenized by the time of Jesus’ birth and life. Did you know that some scholars have drawn interesting parallels between Satan and Apollos? Look at the story of Mosh and the Flood and the Epic of Gilgamesh. LOTS of similarities. One treatment explains it as Ham being the one who was visited in the Gilgamesh epic, and THAT one is interesting. Then you have Mosaic Code and the Code of Hammurabi, which are very similar. My point is, sometimes these things confirm what the Bible says as being an historical fact, because of findings during archeological dogs. You might want to check out Biblical Archeology, Fascinating Bible Facts and Readers Chief’s The History of the Bible. Its important that, when you do Bible study, you have a good guide to use, good maps of the ancient lands, and get more than one published work, or your research its going to be lopsided. If you don’t want to dig into history, but just want to read, be very careful to read each book’s preface, so you know when it was written, whom by, who the intended audience was at the time it was written
And why it was written. Things have changed in languages etc since the oldest books were recorded.
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Anthony_Perlas
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Can we get an exorcists confirm the existence of the “watchers”? I’d hate to believe in something more advanced when Jesus tells us to be simple. I think exorcists would be able to confirm the existence of these beings.In order to understand this more fully, you’ll need to do some scholarly research. There are many historical books that are ancient, and which rabbis and other Hebrew scholars use. To start with, research the Book of Enoch on the topic The Watchers, as well a the origin of the Nephilim. If your Bible has footnotes for Genesis 6:1-8, it probably says that it’s “a bit of an old myth” inserted for posterity. That same Bible will tell you, in the Preface, however, that the Bible it’s the inspired Word of God, and as such, is Holy Writ. Now yes, there are different kinds of books, with different purposes, but Genesis isn’t an apocalyptic book, not a prophetic book, nor a book of the Law. It has four different sources from different ages. But my experience in Bible study with informed Catholic exegetes who are Scripture scholars has taught me that, lots of times, the Church quietly sweeps what they can’t or don’t want to explain under the title of “It’s not endemic to the Faith.” Soooooo, do your research: there are other Bible references to the Watchers, even in the New Testament. And there are actually scholarly works on fallen angels vs angels who were expelled from Heaven. For the record, the Watchers were imprisoned in the abyss, and are now being guarded and won’t be let loose until the End Times. Wish I could remember the name of the abyss.
What differentiates a watchers from a fallen angel/demon? Are you saying there are fallen angels, demons and watchers? Aren’t they all spirits?
If so then the evil one’s kingdom is divided against itself - so the demon’s hierarchy is a struggle for power and hatred while God’s hierarchy is an equilibrium of order.
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Anthony_Perlas
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Human hybrids? That would mean that the Watchers are “humans” as well in order to procreate with humans? I heard that story of the Nephilim but it seems the church asks us to reject it.
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carmichael2359
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No, I’m sorry if my language was confusing. The Watchers married/mated with human women, creating the Nephilim (human hybrids). The Watchers also introduced a lot of other “knowledge” into the world that God didn’t intend to be unleashed all at one time, causing turmoil. Kind of like the Pandora’s Box story. As far as the Church sagging accept or reject, they’ll officially do neither with a lay person. They just patronize the topic and act like it’s a silly little bedtime story that no mature Christian would even be silly enough to ask. But, remember this: Hebrew scholars are the original keepers of the Old Testament, and Hassidic Jeed are even more uptight about getting info right than the Vatican. (They’ve been at it longer, lol) Studying Scripture takes a lifetime and it’s still going on, after thousands of year. And don’t forget, out want do long ago that the Bible was on the Church’s Banned Books list. Still today, there’s tons of Biblical passages that will never be read during Liturgy of the Word, because they do not underline the Faith.
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carmichael2359
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The watchers are no longer around, not even spiritually, from what I understand. They are guarded in the pit or the abyss. And I don’t think Jesus was saying that understanding the spiritual was easy; I think He was telling us not to worry, leave it all up to God to handle. Call on Him and His protection through Jesus. That’s why He cane down. I was only answering your poll question, which, really isn’t a simple question at all. Quite in-depth. And fascinating! I love Scriptural history.
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SteveVH
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What are you talking about? The Bible was on the “Church’s Banned Books list”? It’s hard to understand your words but are you saying it wasn’t that long ago? What is your source for this information?
Also, if you attend daily Mass you will have the entire Bible read in a three year period. What texts will never be read during a Liturgy of the Word?
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mikeeh
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I believe the Catholic view is that they are the same and as a practicing Catholic I believe that too. But I like to have fun, so I’m actually writing a short fiction story about the fall of Lucifer and Satan. I make a distinction between fallen angels, angels who stop following God, and demons, angels that turn against God to gain power and wreak havoc. In my story I explain the distinction is lost from centuries of oral storytelling.
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Christopher1290
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Fallen angels and demons are the same, but the watchers were also a class of angels that fell for a different reason, they were to watch over the human race and instead lusted after women making bodies for themselves and defiling themselves with the sin of humans, than they taught the human race many things that were contrary to God so they were kicked out. I believe the watchers are still around, if you look at the history of the human race, our knowledge increased specifically at certain points in time, we always entered phases into a rush of knowledge. Especially recently, technology came about more rapidly than any point in the history of human kind. A lot of this knowledge is to distract people from the love of God to trap us knowing how weak we can be in sin.
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carmichael2359
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The Church was concerned that people would not know HOW to read the Bible and have the education to discern. Yes, there are plenty of Bible passages that will never be read in the Liturgy, because they are not germain to the Faith. you will get excerpts from Books, but even the Sunday readings skip through verses in chapters considered unimportant to the lesson being taught. In 1970, the first American transition (NAB) came out, which broke quite a bit of ground. I hope my memory on this it’s right; it’s late where I am and I don’t feel like climbing the stairs to get the more recent edition with the complete history in it, lol. My point is only that if one wants to keep it simple then just stick to what’s in the Ordinary, because that’s what we need to know for the Faith. If one wants to delve deeper and ask probing, and interesting, questions, one must be prepared for some thought provoking answers. “Once you eat the apple, you can’t live in Paradise no more.”
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dandy1822
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dandy1822
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they are the same, if they have been cast out of heaven then they would rebel
against god and follow satan
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