Fallen away Catholics must return in order to reach heaven

[Gertabelle]

The means are made available but their is not one means there are many and all are not made available at the same time, so in the beginning God offers the gift of Grace to men, this is done supernaturally if men reject this gift of Grace none of the other means will be offered, so for example if a person rejects God’s gift of Grace God will not then make a priest available to provide confession because there is no point the soul is not ready for that yet and does not require that means at that time. This is because internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation, it is the foundation of all the other means.

How else do you explain those places untouched by Christianity? It is their choice and the means are available they just have to choose to want them. This works because God foresees the future free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty.

Christ died for all, the means of salvation are available to all if they so desire them, but all do not desire them and all will not be saved.

So Christ’s atonement is both universal but also particular.

You see because God already knew they would be great sinners and would reject His gift of Grace. He decides on account of their foreseen sins which they will commit through their own free will during their life’s which He been omnipotent and outside of time already knows.

I will finish with two more dogmas of our Holy Faith.

The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith. (De fide.)
Besides Faith, further acts of disposition must be present. (De fide.)

If you are going to include quotes in your postings, please include their source, otherwise there is no point in including them.

Of course, the justification of an adult is not possible without Faith. And of course, further acts of disposition must be present. But we have been talking about grace, and to whom God profers that grace. I am quite clear that Christ’s atonement is both universal and particular.

And I am also quite clear that the grace of God must be willingly received in order to receive the salvation obtained for us through Christ’s passion, death, and resurrection.

I am the “poster child” for the power of God’s grace in retrieving a lost soul. So I can speak from the depths of hellish experience on what it is to refuse that grace for years and years and years. And I, who had been given SO MUCH, to have then turned and rejected my faith – I was the soul most deserving of eternal damnation. Like Judas, I had been welcomed into intimacy with Christ, into knowledge of my faith through extensive and orthodox instruction. I had been in a contemplative monastery for two years!! I had prayed the Divine Office and attended daily Mass for over two years!! Yet I left the Church, left Christ, and openly and publicly mocked the Truth. I wrote and performed music and plays which mocked God, encouraged people to reject Him and embrace the lies of the enemy. Unlike St. Augustine, who had never known the Truth before His conversion, I had been in the heart of the Church as a contemplative. Has there ever been anyone who has been given more and rejected it???

Yet God in His mercy brought me back, blessed be His holy and glorious mercy!!!

Listen, you can nitpick about when grace is given and when it’s not. You can quote the letter of the law and revel in how much you know and how right you are. Enjoy the trip.

As for me, I will simply state this: God’s mercy is there. His grace is there. His opportunities are given, even when the soul is not ready to receive them fully – sometimes as a sign, a calling, a stepping stone. When I speak with friends who are still in the lifestyle I once called my own, I do not go on about how only Catholics will be saved. I do not even preach to them to change their ways. I know this will do nothing more than push them away. Instead, I pray to the Holy Spirit for wisdom, and then I talk about the graces I have received through practicing celibate chastity. I talk about the joys of my conversion and the challenges and graces of struggling to live as a Catholic who actually follows the teachings of the Catholic Church. Our conversations are full of joy and life and questions and love. One friend admitted she is now wondering about the power of chastity in her own life, about what benefit that could be to her – and she’s not even a Christian!

You speak of not being able to put the roof on the house before the foundation and walls are built. True, but that does not mean that one cannot become aware of roofing materials, roof construction, roof design. In fact, a roof can be prebuilt and be ready to attach with amazing speed as soon as the foundation and walls are built. It is God who does this. Personally, God made all kinds of opportunities available to me – Mass, confession, lectures, books, prayer cards, rosaries – even when I scoffed at them.

You speak in terms of law. I speak in terms of the experience of His mercy. You seem to enjoy your knowledge and surity. I enjoy the experience of His grace and mercy.

As I have read your posts and seen the extent to which you confidently pronounce what sort of person can and cannot be saved, I have been deeply saddened for you. A woman like me who has known the depths of depravity and sin can appreciate the power of words like yours to keep people from the Church and from the mercy of God. Go on with your studies and your writing. Meanwhile, I will follow the example of St. Therese of Lisieux and be the Love of God in the world.

God bless you.

Gertie

 

[Tracyms1974]

Hey, Daughter of truth. Thanks for your reply. I like what you had to say about prayer, especially the idea that prayers can “collect”, so to speak. Have a nice week.

 

[AliciaCL]

From the document, Lumen Gentium, 14,
“Whosoever, therefore,knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.”

So, can we really say that the people who have drifted away, or become members of other Protestant churches, actually KNEW the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ? Can’t we assume for the most part, those people left because they DIDN’T get it? We hear about how poorly our own are catechized. I suspect the didn’t ever get the big pictue despite having gone through the sacraments. The reality is most of us went through at least First Communion somewhat unthinkingly. I’m not trying to make excuses but couldn’t you say nobody would ever officially leave if they understood Christ created the RCC for mankind to be in? Who ever was thorougly taught the biblical underpinnings of catechism, theology, the Early Church Fathers, etc? Not me. I was sort of away for many years but never, never, never considered joining another church. I’m not sure what RCC apostates say about their leaving but I can hardly believe anyone would leave KNOWING Christ made the RCC necessary. Apostates have been duped by these other religious organizations and mostly through emotinalism.

I have a family member who left, married, had children and considers herself quite the Evangelical religious one. Maybe it’s my prejudiced interpretation but I read into her overt displays of religion an unspoken message of she think she’s better than others who are of the quiet, obedient, old, RCC. It’s pretty galling. I’m failry sure that any approach to even open dialogue about RCC would be met with a brick wall. Would LOVE to be able to have the new video ad entitled “Epic” from catholicscomehome.org sent to hehr anonymously as it is excellent and I think quite persuasive. Anybody know how to do that? Google catholicscomehome and Epic or see it in this link:
youtube.com/watch?v=Vs6qZd_xP1w

 

[Leonius]

Meanwhile, I will follow the example of St. Therese of Lisieux and be the Love of God in the world.

God bless you.

Gertie

Then follow her in this:

“Let the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God, abound in your lips and hearts. If we have to do with a difficult soul, let us not be discouraged, nor ever abandon her. Let us have always “the sword of the Spirit” to reprehend her for her faults, and not allow things to pass for the sake of leaving ourselves in repose; let us fight unceasingly, even without hope of gaining the victory. What matter about success! Let us fight on, whatever be the weariness of the struggle. Let us not say: “I can make nothing of this soul, she does not understand; I must give it up.” Oh! what cowardice that would be. We must do our duty unto the end.” "THOUGHTS OF THE SERVANT OF GOD THERESE OF THE CHILD JESUS

It is not love to leave a soul in ignorance, to hide the light of your candle from them so they are left stumbling around in the dark or to leave them to continue to be slaves to sin. If you truly love you will not leave people living under the shadow of death.

 

[Leonius]

banjo;4910825:

From the document, Lumen Gentium, 14,
“Whosoever, therefore,knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.”

So, can we really say that the people who have drifted away, or become members of other Protestant churches, actually KNEW the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ? Can’t we assume for the most part, those people left because they DIDN’T get it?

No, they are to blame for their rejection, Faith is not dependant on understanding, I don’t understand How God can be Trinity but I accept it, I don’t understand how Transubstantiation occurs but I accept it etc. This is the essence of what divine Faith is, we believe because we trust God, just like a person might believe evolution because he trusts, i.e. has faith in scientists.

They are obliged to accept it because God has said it not because it makes sense, or because they get it, God offered them the Grace of Faith, He even had them be born into the Catholic Church what a great blessing, and still they rejected Him.

If they been Catholic didn’t know that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ then again that is also their fault, it is what is known as culpable ignorance, they should have took the time to learn it. It is our responsibility to learn the Truths of God which the Church teaches, if we neglect to do this we are guilty of mortal sin.

see: newadvent.org/summa/2076.htm

 

[PaulinVA]

If they been Catholic didn’t know that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ then again that is also their fault, it is what is known as culpable ignorance, they should have took the time to learn it. It is our responsibility to learn the Truths of God which the Church teaches, if we neglect to do this we are guilty of mortal sin.
%between%

But Christ died on the cross for THAT sin, too!

It’s very interesting for me to have stumbled into this forum, after spending most of my time over at Family Life and Moral Theology. I am considered conservative by many. I consider myself a “good” Catholic. I believe that people more liberal than I have problems that need to be resolved for their salvation to be assured.

But, ironically, I have found many here who are much more rigid and conservative than I. It’s interesting to be in the position of sputtering, “But…But…You just want to send people to Hell.”

I an not a Universalist by any means. I do believe that many are called but few are chosen. I’m just taken aback by the absolute rigidity and darkness of these discussions.

 

[Leonius]

But Christ died on the cross for THAT sin, too!

It’s very interesting for me to have stumbled into this forum, after spending most of my time over at Family Life and Moral Theology. I am considered conservative by many. I consider myself a “good” Catholic. I believe that people more liberal than I have problems that need to be resolved for their salvation to be assured.

But, ironically, I have found many here who are much more rigid and conservative than I. It’s interesting to be in the position of sputtering, “But…But…You just want to send people to Hell.”

I an not a Universalist by any means. I do believe that many are called but few are chosen. I’m just taken aback by the absolute rigidity and darkness of these discussions.

Christ died for all sins, but people still go to Hell so what is your point? He did not die so that we could have the freedom to sin as much as we want with no consequences whatsoever, He died to give us the means to be saved, to make salvation actually possible where previously it was not, He did His part but we are still required to do our part.

I don’t want to send anyone to Hell, and couldn’t even if I wanted to. The whole point of making these things known is so that people can avoid them and encourage others to avoid them and so avoid going to Hell. You may not be a Universalist but you sure sound like a sentimentalist.

God has revealed what we must do, He was very specific, a general just be nice was not what He said so why do people live like it was? That is not Catholicism that is Humanism.

 

[PaulinVA]

You may not be a Universalist but you sure sound like a sentimentalist.

God has revealed what we must do, He was very specific, a general just be nice was not what He said so why do people live like it was? That is not Catholicism that is Humanism.

Ouch!

This is the conundrum: the Jews proved that, left to ourselves, we can not follow the law to achieve salvation. Our fallen nature somehow prohibits it.

So, Christ came as the Paschal Lamb, as the one sacrifice for all, so that our sins may be forgiven.

If we reduce the acceptance of this salvation to another set of laws, how have we profited from Christ’s sacrifice? I know this is a classic argument but I’m not sure of the answer, though.

So, to bring this back to the original premise of the thread - If one falls away from the Church, joins a non-Catholic community, and lives his life in every way the same as you except for, obviously, the sacraments, it is all for naught?

 

[Jazel]

Not to interrupt the flow of the conversation, but I’ve just joined the forums today and this has special interest to me in my current situation.

Born and raised Catholic, 12 years of Catholic School, but have not considered myself Catholic for many years now (I’m 40) - I “left” because I had some issues with some bits of dogma, but have always kept my faith in God, belief in the Trinity, and the historical authority of the Church. Now, there were probably times I cursed the RCC, but I wouldn’t say I ever fully renounced it. I’ve flirted with other denominations but they’ve always left me lacking and FINALLY I think I’m ready to return to the Church both barrels blazing.

Now, the question I have: As I’ve been away for near 20 years, am I considered in a state of Apostasy? I know I have many sins to Confess and I still have dogma “issues” here and there, but what’s the consensus here? Will I need to resolve my disagreements with the Church before I’m considered a part of the Church?

-Jim

 

[PaulinVA]

Now, the question I have: As I’ve been away for near 20 years, am I considered in a state of Apostasy? I know I have many sins to Confess and I still have dogma “issues” here and there, but what’s the consensus here? Will I need to resolve my disagreements with the Church before I’m considered a part of the Church?

-Jim

Jim, why not call the local parish, and arrange to meet with a priest in the evening this week for a little question time and confession? If this isn’t possible, showing up for confession this weekend would be great, too. I am glad that you want to come back. Just make a first step.

There are programs for “returning” Catholics to have in-depth discussions and have topics presented to help you work through your issues, but you are always a Catholic (by right of your baptism) and you are always welcome back.

 

[GodIsGracious]

Now, the question I have: As I’ve been away for near 20 years, am I considered in a state of Apostasy? I know I have many sins to Confess and I still have dogma “issues” here and there, but what’s the consensus here? Will I need to resolve my disagreements with the Church before I’m considered a part of the Church?

-Jim

Jim, your post is close to my heart. I had been away for over a decade when, at one point in my life, I considered coming back. What I did was I called my local parish and set up time to talk to a priest for spiritual guidance.

This priest was so very kind and generous with his time. We had a THREE HOUR discussion about my thoughts and feelings on the church. I pretty much told him my life story, why I left, what was up, what was wrong… in that discussion I even discussed my sins. Although, this discussion was not the actual confession.

When we were done talking, we went to a special room at the church (our meeting was in his office) where he put on his … special gear. I don’t know the official term for what he was wearing (someone help me on this, please! ) Then he said prayers that starts the sacrament of reconciliation. I said my act of contrition and all that. When it got time for me to say my sins, since it had been… well, actually, probably close to 20 years at that point, we addressed and highlighted a few details from our discussion. He already knew them anyway by that point. Then he gave me penance and we were done.

Probably all in all that took 3 hrs and 15 minutes. But the actual confession was not 3 hours. Remember, I requested his time to talk about the church, why I had fallen away, discuss my sins, issues, etc.

I have since lapsed, AGAIN. Oi. But the Holy Spirit calls me stronger than ever before. I’m still resisting and want to give in, but like you, I have issues with the church and rules and the like.

 

[Leonius]

Ouch!

This is the conundrum: the Jews proved that, left to ourselves, we can not follow the law to achieve salvation. Our fallen nature somehow prohibits it. So, Christ came as the Paschal Lamb, as the one sacrifice for all, so that our sins may be forgiven.

If we reduce the acceptance this salvation to another set of laws, how have we profited from Christ’s sacrifice? I know this is a classic argument but I’m not sure of the answer, though.

That is what Luther and Calvin taught, its not what Catholics believe though. The Grace won by Christ through His Redemptive Sacrifice now makes possible the keeping of the Commandments just as it is what now makes salvation possible where it was not before. Catholics you see are not left to themselves they have the help of the Grace of God which they receive chiefly through the sacraments for which purpose He gave them to us.

“If anyone says that the commandments of God are impossible to observe, even for a man who is justified and in the state of grace, let him be anathema. (Council of Trent)”

Likewise we are not free from the Law and if we do not keep the commandments we will not receive salvation this is found throughout the Scriptures and is also emphasised in the Baptismal rites of the Church as is also the necessity of Faith and also of “entering into the Temple” ie. the Church.

Holy Baptism

“P: Keep, O Lord, Thy chosen servant whom we have signed with the sign of the holy Cross: that by keeping Thy commandments, he may attain unto the glory of the regeneration”

“No one, however much justified, should consider himself exempt from the observance of the commandments; no one should use that rash statement, forbidden under anathema, that the observance of the commandments of God is impossible for one who is justified. For God does not command impossibilities; on the contrary, He admonishes you to do what you can, and to pray for what you cannot do, and He helps you so that you may be able.” (Council of Trent)

So, to bring this back to the original premise of the thread - If one falls away from the Church, joins a non-Catholic community, and lives his life in every way the same as you except for, obviously, the sacraments, it is all for naught?

Unless you believe in salvation by works alone you already should know the answer to that question. Such people are guilty of the great sin of infidelity.

Scriptures are clear on their fate:

“Whosoever revolteth, and continueth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.” (2 St. John 1:9)

“Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that Antichrist cometh, even now there are become many Antichrists: whereby we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they had been of us, they would no doubt have remained with us;” 1 John 2:18-19)

“A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: Knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgement.” (St. Titus 3:10-11)

As is the Sacred Tradition and the Church:

Against the First Commandment, all those sin who do not have faith. Such sinners are very numerous, for they include all who fall into heresy, all who reject what Holy Mother the Church proposes for our belief. (Catechism of Trent)

Faith is necessary for salvation, denying the Faith is to deny Christ. Without Faith in Christ and His doctrine there can be no salvation. Grace, Faith and Works are all necessary for salvation.

Internal supernatural grace is absolutely necessary for the beginning of faith and of salvation. (De fide.)
The justification of an adult is not possible without Faith. (De fide.)
Besides Faith, further acts of disposition must be present. (De fide.) (ie works)

Also:

For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God is absolutely necessary. (De fide.)

So the good works of someone in a state of grace are meritorious in the eyes of God, on the other hand any seemingly good works done by those who are not acting by the Grace of God and do not have Faith are not.

“But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.” Hebrews 11:6

“That our Catholic faith, without which it is impossible to please God…” Council of Trent, fifth session, decree concerning original sin.

" Wherefore, by divine and Catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in Scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the Church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgement or in her ordinary and universal magisterium… Since, then, without faith it is impossible to please God and reach the fellowship of his sons and daughters, it follows that no one can ever achieve justification without it, neither can anyone attain eternal life unless he or she perseveres in it to the end." I Vatican Council, Chapter 3 On faith, 8 & 9

 

[Pug]

Ouch!

This is the conundrum: the Jews proved that, left to ourselves, we can not follow the law to achieve salvation. Our fallen nature somehow prohibits it.

So, Christ came as the Paschal Lamb, as the one sacrifice for all, so that our sins may be forgiven.

If we reduce the acceptance of this salvation to another set of laws, how have we profited from Christ’s sacrifice? I know this is a classic argument but I’m not sure of the answer, though.

So, to bring this back to the original premise of the thread - If one falls away from the Church, joins a non-Catholic community, and lives his life in every way the same as you except for, obviously, the sacraments, it is all for naught?

First, heaven was closed before Christ’s sacrifice, so many profited right away from it. Also, we are freed from slavery to sin. As Leonius pointed out, when we are living in Christ, we are freed from sin, and we can indeed keep the ten commandments. Without grace, it cannot be done for any substantial length of time. The sacraments communicate grace to us, so they help in this. And most importantly, man was out of friendship with God and we had absolutely no way to fix that. In Jesus, reconciliation has happened. In the end, all things will be fulfilled in Christ. The entire universe has profited by his sacrifice. (no, I am not a universalist. I mean even the heavens and the earth will be restored in the end. I am talking about the consummation.)

Once we are in Christ, we keep the law of love. In love we become slaves of righteousness, so to speak. This is freely done. We are free, not slaves. We are in a relationship with God and get to love him and others freely, a participation in the very life of the Trinity.

Hmm. The best bible passage I can think of right now to suggest to read on your question about law is mabe all of Romans chapter 6. It will take 3 to 5 minutes to just read. Longer to think about. I linked you out to the NAB, but I like it better in the RSVCE, but I can’t so easily link you out to that whole chapter.

About a fallen away Catholic, and is it all for naught? Well, such a thing could depend on their heart. Are they refusing to do it God’s way? Are they really rebelling? If they are, this is bad. They need to repent in their heart with perfect contrition and let God turn them around. Or, instead, I could imagine their heart is currently in a different configuration. Then they would be without the help of the sacraments, but not like the other person I described. We cannot know. God knows. We don’t need to know, either. We still treat the person the same, with love, sharing our life with them the same if they are a relative, etc., praying for them. But if they had the faith really to begin with, and they lost it, this is always serious. I’d be in serious trouble at this point if I turned over the apple cart, for example. For, you see, I most likely do know better than to do that. To get to the point of turning it over, I’d have to do something that I know is wrong. That is me, though, and not everyone else. But I’m a safe enough example to give.

 

[AliciaCL]

Now, the question I have: As I’ve been away for near 20 years, am I considered in a state of Apostasy? I know I have many sins to Confess and I still have dogma “issues” here and there, but what’s the consensus here? Will I need to resolve my disagreements with the Church before I’m considered a part of the Church?

-Jim

I don’t think you have to “resolve” everything. Cradle Catholics and converts often continue to research, examine, discuss, etc. the depth of some issues. This is just my opninion of course by as long as you believe the main doctrine of Christ establishing the church, guided by the magesterium, which refines doctrine, you belive in the sacraments, the Mass, the means of salvation, etc., I think you can rejoin the church. The catechism is very helpful. Bible study groups online or in person are helpful as well. So is this forum. Welcome back, in advance.

 

[Leonius]

I don’t think you have to “resolve” everything. Cradle Catholics and converts often continue to research, examine, discuss, etc. the depth of some issues. This is just my opninion of course by as long as you believe the main doctrine of Christ establishing the church, guided by the magesterium, which refines doctrine, you belive in the sacraments, the Mass, the means of salvation, etc., I think you can rejoin the church. The catechism is very helpful. Bible study groups online or in person are helpful as well. So is this forum. Welcome back, in advance.

If he truly denies dogmas then he is in a state of heresy and is automatically excommunicated so he will need to resolve those issues, he will need to speak to a priest to see if that is the case or not.

 

[Jazel]

If he truly denies dogmas then he is in a state of heresy and is automatically excommunicated so he will need to resolve those issues, he will need to speak to a priest to see if that is the case or not.

This is really in response to all that commented on my original post, as I don’t want to take up too much room (I’m sure I won’t feel so shy after I’ve been around for awhile)

PaulinVa, GodisGracious, & AliciaCL: thank you for your words of encouragement. I have pretty much decided that my next step is exactly what you suggested, and I will be talking to the Priest in the parish closest to me this weekend. After research, I find it interesting (to say the least) that the Priest I associate most from my childhood left my parish to tend to this one, across town. He is dead now, but I’m sure that Father Huber left his mark in some small way. It may be homecoming destined to happen.

Leonius, I thank you for your words as well. It’s very possible that I am mired in heresy and should be excommunicated. It’s bothered me for years, and I may as well get it out of the way, yes? I will continue to follow God the best I can, but I’m ready for the judgment, you could say. I’m certainly not looking to “change” the Church because I respect it too much, I’m just looking to see if I might have a place within it.

-Jim

 

[ac_claire]

Not to interrupt the flow of the conversation, but I’ve just joined the forums today and this has special interest to me in my current situation.

Born and raised Catholic, 12 years of Catholic School, but have not considered myself Catholic for many years now (I’m 40) - I “left” because I had some issues with some bits of dogma, but have always kept my faith in God, belief in the Trinity, and the historical authority of the Church. Now, there were probably times I cursed the RCC, but I wouldn’t say I ever fully renounced it. I’ve flirted with other denominations but they’ve always left me lacking and FINALLY I think I’m ready to return to the Church both barrels blazing.

Now, the question I have: As I’ve been away for near 20 years, am I considered in a state of Apostasy? I know I have many sins to Confess and I still have dogma “issues” here and there, but what’s the consensus here? Will I need to resolve my disagreements with the Church before I’m considered a part of the Church?

Hi Jim,

I was in a very similar place you are now a few years back, so hopefully this will help.

First if by “disagreements” you mean church doctrine-- (the same “dogma issues” you mentioned earlier, I’m guessing?)-- then the answer is yes.

My advice is to just accept the dogmas of the Church, all of them. Decide right now that you want to believe even if you don’t understand. No matter what it costs you, you’re going to accept and obey the Church’s teachings and thus submit yourself to the will of God. Persrevere even when you don’t “feel” it. Then, if it’s anything like what happened with me, God will bless you with true faith as He wills it.

Remember that faith is a gift of God, so you can’t create it in yourself. As many of the great saints have taught us, obedience always comes first, then faith.

 

[Pug]

This is really in response to all that commented on my original post, as I don’t want to take up too much room (I’m sure I won’t feel so shy after I’ve been around for awhile)

PaulinVa, GodisGracious, & AliciaCL: thank you for your words of encouragement. I have pretty much decided that my next step is exactly what you suggested, and I will be talking to the Priest in the parish closest to me this weekend.

Welcome to the forums here, Jim, and I’ll pray for you this weekend that your meeting with the priest goes well.

 

[Leonius]

This is really in response to all that commented on my original post, as I don’t want to take up too much room (I’m sure I won’t feel so shy after I’ve been around for awhile)

PaulinVa, GodisGracious, & AliciaCL: thank you for your words of encouragement. I have pretty much decided that my next step is exactly what you suggested, and I will be talking to the Priest in the parish closest to me this weekend. After research, I find it interesting (to say the least) that the Priest I associate most from my childhood left my parish to tend to this one, across town. He is dead now, but I’m sure that Father Huber left his mark in some small way. It may be homecoming destined to happen.

Leonius, I thank you for your words as well. It’s very possible that I am mired in heresy and should be excommunicated. It’s bothered me for years, and I may as well get it out of the way, yes? I will continue to follow God the best I can, but I’m ready for the judgment, you could say. I’m certainly not looking to “change” the Church because I respect it too much, I’m just looking to see if I might have a place within it.

-Jim

Of course Jim, I will pray that you do.

 

[Jazel]

Hi Jim,

I was in a very similar place you are now a few years back, so hopefully this will help.

First if by “disagreements” you mean church doctrine-- (the same “dogma issues” you mentioned earlier, I’m guessing?)-- then the answer is yes.

My advice is to just accept the dogmas of the Church, all of them. Decide right now that you want to believe even if you don’t understand. No matter what it costs you, you’re going to accept and obey the Church’s teachings and thus submit yourself to the will of God. Persrevere even when you don’t “feel” it. Then, if it’s anything like what happened with me, God will bless you with true faith as He wills it.

Remember that faith is a gift of God, so you can’t create it in yourself. As many of the great saints have taught us, obedience always comes first, then faith.

Thank you. And yes, I’m 40 years old and I still get “dogma” and “doctrine” all confused. I’m really not that dense, I swear!

I am always willing to admit that I am wrong. About anything. My pride is awfully strong, but I’m not so dense to think that My Pride is The Truth.

Though I reserve the right to be Right (and I reserve the right to have my sense of humor, obviously)

-Jim