Fallen-Away Catholics

[geosibley]

It is my understanding that the Church teaches that a person who kills innocent people, someone we consider a terrorist, does not commit a sin if the act is done in a sincere belief that he is doing the will of God.

 What is the Church's teaching on a Catholic who changes his religion in the sincere belief that he is doing God's will?

Thanks .

 

[1ke]

It is my understanding that the Church teaches that a person who kills innocent people, someone we consider a terrorist, does not comit a sin if the act is done in a sincere belief that he is doing the will of God.

I think that is quite an oversimplification. The Church teaches that there is a *possibility *of something called invincible ignorance.

However, how many can claim such? We do not know.

We do know that we are all accountable to the natural law, as St. Paul tells us. And, not killing is a pretty basic tenet.

This idea of “sincere belief”, IMHO, does not equate to “invincible ignorance”.

What is the Church’s teaching on a Catholic who changes his religion in the sincere belief that he is doing God’s will?

He has committed an objectively grave act of heresy, apostacy, or schism depending upon which religion he “changes” to. Whether or not he has culpability, again, depends upon subjective criteria.

We can make no moral judgment. But, don’t be quick to set the “invincible ignorance” bar so low. Again, “sincere belief” and “invincible ignorance” are not the same thing. Many Catholics, for example, “sincerely believe” the Church’s teaching on contraception is wrong and reject it. They are NOT invincibly ignorant.

So in both cases, we can pray for these people but do not know how God will judge them.

 

[Dale_M]

It is my understanding that the Church teaches that a person who kills innocent people, someone we consider a terrorist, does not commit a sin if the act is done in a sincere belief that he is doing the will of God.

I think that is a misunderstanding. Sin is objective. It is an offense against God, against the Eternal Law. If someone commits evil, even if they think they are doing good, it is still evil.

However, the degree of culpability, the amount of fault, some may have for committing a sin may be greater or lesser.

As for fallen away Catholics, this question was posed to the staff apologists at CAF. Here is how one apologist answered a question about someone’s brother who left the Church.
Peggy Frye:

It’s possible that your brother isn’t culpable. Whether a Catholic who leaves the Church and dies outside of it can be saved, the answer is that such a person can be saved if they were innocently ignorant of the truth of the Catholic faith. This would be the case for a person who was raised Catholic but never truly catechized and who had seen no evidence of sufficient evidence for the Catholic faith. Such a person could be innocently ignorant.

However, if a person at any time makes an act of Catholic faith (that is, places his faith in the teaching authority of the Church so that he will believe whatever the Church teaches because it speaks for God) then God will give him the grace to persevere in the Catholic faith. Therefore, if he withdraws his assent from the Catholic faith, he is sinning against the grace God has given him and thus is not innocently ignorant.

Thus, the only way for a Catholic to leave the Church and still be innocently ignorant is for him to never have made an act of Catholic faith in the first place, which is a real possibility in this age of inadequate catechesis, in which some people are never taught that the solemn teachings of the Church are infallible. Thus the Church teaches that “…they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it [LG 14:cf.].

Your brother’s rejection of the faith is a difficult cross to bear. Continue to pray for your brother’s repentance and return to the sacraments. Don’t be discouraged, but, instead be joyful in hope, patience in affliction, faithful in prayer (Romans 12:12). “No prayer is ever lost”—St. John Vianney.

A prayer for your brother: “I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints…” Ephesians 1:18

Book recommendation:
Search and Rescue: How to Bring Your Family and Friends Into, or Back Into, the Catholic Church by Pat Madrid:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=4943

 

[divinefaith]

So for a Catholic to become protestant because they believe in sola scriptura, is a sin on a subjective basis? I dont agree, what if they found no sense in the Catholic faith and thought staying in it would actually be against God’s will?

 

[Gem]

Subjective only to US. God judges justly. The truth is that The Body of Christ is the Catholic Church with Jesus at its head. Some other Christians ( or others) are imperfectly joined to the Body, and may be saved. But this decision is the Lord’s. We are all more likely to be saved in the Catholic Church as we seek the Lord with a sincere heart.

 

[RICKY_RASPER]

“We are all more likely to be saved in the Catholic Church as we seek the Lord with a sincere heart.”

I take that to mean that my love of Christ is insincere ?

 

[1ke]

So for a Catholic to become protestant because they believe in sola scriptura, is a sin on a subjective basis? I dont agree, what if they found no sense in the Catholic faith and thought staying in it would actually be against God’s will?

One must have a **properly **formed conscience.

The Church’s teaching are the sure norm for conscience formation.

This is not an area that a person has freedom to disagree. They must give assent to all that the Church teaches.

 

[Dale_M]

“We are all more likely to be saved in the Catholic Church as we seek the Lord with a sincere heart.”

I take that to mean that my love of Christ is insincere ?

I don’t think that is what he meant. I believe he was referring to the section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church which discusses the relationship of the Catholic Church to the Protestant churches

I hope I don’t cause your eyes to glaze over, but here are two key sections. The Catechism first makes a distinction between persons who were part of the Catholic Church and then choose to leave, and Christians who were never part of the Church.

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

According to Catholic teaching, if you sincerely seek and follow Christ, you are have the means to be saved even if you have never been Catholic.

 

[Gem]

“We are all more likely to be saved in the Catholic Church as we seek the Lord with a sincere heart.”

I take that to mean that my love of Christ is insincere ?

Of course not. Believers can be sincere in all religions. I was actually putting a caveat on the salvation even of Catholics, since it is not guaranteed. I was also leaving room for God’s mercy on us all at the Final Judgement.

 

[divinefaith]

Isnt it the same as Baptism by Desire? Whether you were always a non-Catholic or you converted from Catholocism to another religion?

 

[Gem]

Isnt it the same as Baptism by Desire? Whether you were always a non-Catholic or you converted from Catholocism to another religion?

No. First of all, God’s rules are for us, not for Him. He can save whom He wills. However, He has told us what we must do to be saved. Being baptised in one of those things. Now, is this ALWAYS required? Jesus says, yes. But what about the Good Thief or someone martyed before they could be baptised? Ok, so there must be something called Baptism of Desire, which is just a name for the Mercy and Justice of God being perfect.

To your question, the two cases you present are not equivalent. In the case of a non-Catholic, the person has never been a member of the Church and may very well be moving towards the Catholic faith. A convert to another Christian group or religion is moving away from the Church and therefore away from Jesus, since He is the head of the Church (the Body of Christ). This moving away is objective - it is a fact - regardless of how the person feels. However, God may have mercy on that person because of how they feel. Does that make sense?

A person’s conscience is important, but, as 1ke said, one’s conscience must be properly formed, meaning educated. You can’t make decisions based solely on your opinions or gut feelings. You have to know what you are talking about if you are going to leave Christ’s Church. Have you read everyting you can find? Have you talked to your pastor? Have you prayed about it? Have you fasted? Have you meditated on Christ’s sacrifice for you? Have you read the history of the early Church?

God’s mercy is His to dispense, but He has given us many, many revelations of Himself (the bible, the Mass, the saints, miracles large and small) to help our faith grow. We need to be sure we do not spurn them.

Gem