Fallen man and Jesus as redeemer in catholisism

[jjsmity]

I have been reading about a catholic J.R.R Tolkien allot lately and he is constanley referring to mankind and our world a fallen i agree 100% as creationist] and being redeemed by Jesus. This got me thinking…

Please Catholics only respond.

1] In Catholicism what does it mean we are fallen humans theologically, and what does it mean to you personally?

2] what does it mean jesus is redeemer and had redeemed mankind? Both theologically and personally thanks.

Sorry for so many questions. I just received the catechism of the church and ott’s fundamentals of catholic dogma, but I like to hear from those who follow the faith.

 

[Della]

I have been reading about a catholic J.R.R Tolkien allot lately and he is constanley referring to mankind and our world a fallen i agree 100% as creationist] and being redeemed by Jesus. This got me thinking…

Please Catholics only respond.

1] In Catholicism what does it mean we are fallen humans theologically

It means that man is wounded not totally depraved, as Calvin taught. At the fall our nature was corrupted–not destroyed. If it had been destroyed, Jesus could not have become one of us without having a fallen nature, as well. Our intellect was darkened so that we cannot always discern what is truly good. And our will was weakened so that, even if we want to, we cannot always do what we know we should. St. Paul talks about this when he decries the fact that what he wills to do he does not always do–or words to that effect.

and what does it mean to you personally?

It means that I too am a fallen human being in need of God’s grace or else I will not be able to be holy as God is holy, as he commanded us to be, nor will I be able to do in love what God commands us to do.

2] what does it mean jesus is redeemer and had redeemed mankind? Both theologically and personally thanks.

Jesus’ life, death, resurrection, and ascension satisfied God’s justice for our sins. Jesus did this once for all, presenting himself to the Father for our sake. Personally, it means that I can be saved because Jesus has done what I could not do, as the Second Adam. I know that doesn’t sound all that personal, but believe me I cling to this wonderful understanding as I love and worship the Trinity for it.

Sorry for so many questions. I just received the catechism of the church and ott’s fundamentals of catholic dogma, but I like to hear from those who follow the faith.

That’s fine. Everyone comes at these things from slightly different perspectives. For me the theology is what attracted me to the Catholic faith, so I tend to think in those terms. For others it was coming into a deeper sense of God’s presence and others it was realizing where God places his authority and why. We come into the faith as individuals, but we worship as a corporate body, bouyed and enhanced by our own prayer life and relationship with Christ.

 

[DavidFilmer]

I just received … ott’s fundamentals of catholic dogma

Wow. You jumped right into the deep end of the pool.

 

[ahs]

It means that man is wounded not totally depraved, as Calvin taught. At the fall our nature was corrupted–not destroyed. If it had been destroyed, Jesus could not have become one of us without having a fallen nature, as well. Our intellect was darkened so that we cannot always discern what is truly good. And our will was weakened so that, even if we want to, we cannot always do what we know we should. St. Paul talks about this when he decries the fact that what he wills to do he does not always do–or words to that effect.

It means that I too am a fallen human being in need of God’s grace or else I will not be able to be holy as God is holy, as he commanded us to be, nor will I be able to do in love what God commands us to do.

Jesus’ life, death, resurrection, and ascension satisfied God’s justice for our sins. Jesus did this once for all, presenting himself to the Father for our sake. Personally, it means that I can be saved because Jesus has done what I could not do, as the Second Adam. I know that doesn’t sound all that personal, but believe me I cling to this wonderful understanding as I love and worship the Trinity for it.

That’s fine. Everyone comes at these things from slightly different perspectives. For me the theology is what attracted me to the Catholic faith, so I tend to think in those terms. For others it was coming into a deeper sense of God’s presence and others it was realizing where God places his authority and why. We come into the faith as individuals, but we worship as a corporate body, bouyed and enhanced by our own prayer life and relationship with Christ.

Beautifully said, Della!

Great question, jjsmity. On the personal level [for me] I acknowledge that, though I have accepted Christ as my Savior, if I don’t cling to Him and pray to Him, I will gradually fall back into sin, being always tempted by the evil one who wants to separate us from God. I also know that, when I DO fall (which I often do), Christ is waiting for me with open arms to come back to Him.

 

[Abu]

jjsmity #1
1] In Catholicism what does it mean we are fallen humans theologically, and what does it mean to you personally?

The Dogma of Trent on Original Sin teaches the personal guilt of Adam & Eve for Original Sin, but the Magisterium does not teach a personal or actual sin or guilt in Adam’s descendants. What is present in our fallen human nature is the stain of that sin in each of us – we all born sinners (St Paul, Rom 5:19) – Adam transmitted his guilt to our nature – left in a state of sin. That is why the CCC #403 teaches that Adam “has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted….”
Our fallen state lies in our human nature received sinful from Adam’s nature.

The consequences of Adam’s sin and our state of sin are the loss of: sanctifying grace, of integrity, of immortality and happiness (therefore suffering), and of enlightenment.

Thus I have to follow the redeemer, the Christ and His Catholic Church, which teaches, rules and sanctifies.

2] what does it mean jesus is redeemer and had redeemed mankind? Both theologically and personally thanks.

Baptism remits that state of original sin, and incorporates us into the Church founded by Jesus Christ. It infuses sanctifying grace into the soul of the recipient and imparts an indelible character. All of the other consequences of the inherited original sinful state of our nature remain – our growth in holiness depends on our cooperation with the redemption of Jesus to enable salvation.

Those who follow Him through His Church, or follow their consciences and sincerely try to do good and avoid evil, have the opportunity for salvation.

 

[steve_b]

Please Catholics only respond.

1] In Catholicism what does it mean we are fallen humans theologically, and what does it mean to you personally?

Re: fallen human nature ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=fallen&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

Adam and Eve were made without sin. Sin was in the world, because Satan was ALSO in the garden, but no sin yet was in humanity. When Satan got both A & E to sin, sin was now in them. And now they could not pass onto the rest of humanity original justice they were created with. Sin (i.e. original sin) was now in humanity from then on. ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=original+sin&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

for clarification of this sin, see 405 .
jj:

2] what does it mean jesus is redeemer and had redeemed mankind? Both theologically and personally thanks.

Sorry for so many questions. I just received the catechism of the church and ott’s fundamentals of catholic dogma, but I like to hear from those who follow the faith.

That’s why I quoted from the CCC and now you have the link to the search engine scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

As soon as A & E sinned God showed them and us the plan of redemption in Genesis 3:15 called the proto evangelium. Fortelling the woman Mary, and her seed Jesus

Jesus the redeemer ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=redeemer&xsubmit=Search&s=SS

 

[jjsmity]

Thank you all for references and thoughts much appreciated.

 

[zz912]

It means that man is wounded not totally depraved, as Calvin taught. At the fall our nature was corrupted–not destroyed. If it had been destroyed, Jesus could not have become one of us without having a fallen nature, as well. Our intellect was darkened so that we cannot always discern what is truly good. And our will was weakened so that, even if we want to, we cannot always do what we know we should. St. Paul talks about this when he decries the fact that what he wills to do he does not always do–or words to that effect.

It means that I too am a fallen human being in need of God’s grace or else I will not be able to be holy as God is holy, as he commanded us to be, nor will I be able to do in love what God commands us to do.

Jesus’ life, death, resurrection, and ascension satisfied God’s justice for our sins. Jesus did this once for all, presenting himself to the Father for our sake. Personally, it means that I can be saved because Jesus has done what I could not do, as the Second Adam. I know that doesn’t sound all that personal, but believe me I cling to this wonderful understanding as I love and worship the Trinity for it.

That’s fine. Everyone comes at these things from slightly different perspectives. For me the theology is what attracted me to the Catholic faith, so I tend to think in those terms. For others it was coming into a deeper sense of God’s presence and others it was realizing where God places his authority and why. We come into the faith as individuals, but we worship as a corporate body, bouyed and enhanced by our own prayer life and relationship with Christ.

I don’t think I could improve on what was written here.

From a personal standpoint, I am still in awe of that fact that at every Mass we are participating in the Last Supper, Crucifixion and Resurrection. Participating in a way we can’t fully comprehend, but still participating as the Sacrificed Lamb is present, Body Blood Soul and Divinity in our presence at each Mass.