False Parallel: Need Pithy Confutation

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[Admin, please reroute this if it’s not in the right dept. I wasn’t sure where to post it. Thanks.]

I need a succinct argument against this idea (I’m posting it on my wall at FB, so it can’t be longwinded) : in the same way slavery was wrong, denying “gays” the right to civil union is wrong. (Note: the person making this parallel is a Pentecostal pastor who personally does not endorse homosexuality, but who thinks that (a) the proper way of treating a “gay” couple is to invite them over for dinner and be friends with them and (b) the above argument is necessary from the constitutional/liberty standpoint—regardless of what we might feel morally. So I need an argument in that context.) I pointed out that it sets a legal precedent, but he pshawed that, claiming that was the same argument used in opposing abolition. 🤷
 
[Admin, please reroute this if it’s not in the right dept. I wasn’t sure where to post it. Thanks.]

I need a succinct argument against this idea (I’m posting it on my wall at FB, so it can’t be longwinded) : in the same way slavery was wrong, denying “gays” the right to civil union is wrong. (Note: the person making this parallel is a Pentecostal pastor who personally does not endorse homosexuality, but who thinks that (a) the proper way of treating a “gay” couple is to invite them over for dinner and be friends with them and (b) the above argument is necessary from the constitutional/liberty standpoint—regardless of what we might feel morally. So I need an argument in that context.) I pointed out that it sets a legal precedent, but he pshawed that, claiming that was the same argument used in opposing abolition. 🤷
The only way the slavery argument could be made anaologous to the gay rights argument is with the underlying principle that everyone has the Natural Law right to personal freedom. However, that is drawing a very long bow, because the right to personal freedom entails being free from the total control of another. Personal freedom does not, however, mean you can do just whatever you like. With personal freedom comes personal responsibility. Personal responsibility requires that the freedoms of others be respected and consequently, personal freedom, in a society, is constrained and it is constrained by moral as well as legal edicts. In other words, you just can’t do whatever you like.

Gay rights is in contradiction to the Natural Law, which the right to personal freedom is. Gay rights seeks to make ‘normal’ that which is both abnormal and immoral and a breach of personal responsibilities and moral edicts.

Gay rights activists cannot seek to invoke a Natural Law principle to break a Natural Law principle, which, in effect, is what they are doing.
 
Wanner, great article! Thanks. I put the URL up at FB (I just hope folks READ it!).

John, I totally agree with you. 👍

Problem is, unless someone believes in the Natural Law (which of course secularists don’t—especially not the ones steeping themselves in perversion), that argument won’t work. I need something to trump their argument “on their own turf.” (Sort of like Bishop Von Galen, the Catholic guy who convinced the Nazis to quit euthanizing people, based purely on his appeal to their own logic, viz. “It is not in keeping with German dignity for us to kill off our own people.” He didn’t appeal to Biblical morality or ethics; he used their own beliefs against them.)
 
I think the key is to ask how all of this is fair to people who don’t marry or to adults who would like to live together but have no sexual relationship. Why does marriage deserve societal support, anyway?

If marriage is about couples, and not about families, then there isn’t a reason that couples ought to have rights that single people do not have. After all, if couples are taking care of each other, shouldn’t it be single people who get special tax breaks, since they have no one in particular to take care of them?

If marriage is to be worthy of societal status, then, it must be about rearing children, which all of society has an interest in, since these children will grow up to continue civilization. Children, of course, are the fruit of heterosexual unions, not homosexual ones. While it is often argued that homosexual couples could adopt orphans, there are two problems with this argument.

The most obvious is that this is not what most homosexual couples are doing. Instead, they turn to heterosexual reproduction. Unlike heterosexual families broken by divorce, bringing children into a homosexual home requires purposefully choosing that one’s child will have a parent that is excluded from the intimate life of his the biological parent he or she lives with, in favor of a lover preferred by that parent.

The second problem is that the ability of two adults to raise a child has no necessary connection to any sexual relationship between the adults. A convent can love and raise a child; the sisters don’t have to have sex with each other to do that. It is impossible to demonstrate that adults who aren’t in a sexual relationship are incompetent at child-rearing. So, again: why unfairly give homosexuals legal advantages that couples with no sexual relationship don’t get?

So while homosexuals and single people might rightly complain when secular laws continue to give heterosexual couples perks but stop requiring heterosexual couples to be responsible to sole reason their unions deserve societal support at all, that does not imply that homosexuals have some right to get in on an institution started with the intention of serving people doing the work of rearing children but that now hands out perks to adult couples whose only goal in life is to suit themselves.

A civil union, in contrast, is a legal avenue by which adults who may not marry each other can nevertheless direct the state to automatically confer a legal status of mutual care for each other. That does not imply a sexual relationship must exist to give the legal direction a reason for existence. It is not fair that adults who want to care for each other should have to have a sexual relationship in order to have the status that goes with mutual care. Again: it is difficult to argue what interest the state has in encouraging homosexual relationships over celibacy. I don’t think there is a leg to stand on.

Therefore, heterosexual relationships, being inherently fruitful, deserve the support due to the work of childrearing, which is for the common good. Other relationships between adults, while they may have fruitful aspects, cannot possibly have a fruitful sexual component, and therefore cannot claim a right to special priveleges in recognition of a sexual relationship between adults in those relationships.
 
If you want to bypass reason – arguing from emotion – and make your opponents look like heartless ogres, simply compare your favorite cause to the Civil Rights Movement and your opponents to slave-owning bigots. 👍
 
If you want to bypass reason – arguing from emotion – and make your opponents look like heartless ogres, simply compare your favorite cause to the Civil Rights Movement and your opponents to slave-owning bigots. 👍
Actually, in the case of abortion advocates, this is actually an apt comparison, given that they use many of the exact same arguments that pro-slavery advocates used. I wrote a blog post regarding the comparison a while back.
 
Actually, in the case of abortion advocates, this is actually an apt comparison, given that they use many of the exact same arguments that pro-slavery advocates used. I wrote a blog post regarding the comparison a while back.
I agree. The analogy can be apt when properly used (as you have done – thanks for that blog post, by the way 👍). But it does get overused in popular discourse as a sound-bite-sized “Gotcha” argument that places one’s position beyond criticism.

The OP wanted a “pithy confutation”, so I gave one. That precluded me from providing qualifiers. :o
 
EasterJoy, thank you for the thorough answer. I will have to read it a 3rd and 4th time to totally get it. :doh2: 😊

Joe, good point! Thank you. 🙂
 
EasterJoy, thank you for the thorough answer. I will have to read it a 3rd and 4th time to totally get it. :doh2: 😊
Sorry, my writing can get a bit convoluted at times. Just understand that there are adults who would like the benefits of marriage who cannot marry and who don’t want or can’t have a sexual relationship: I’m thinking two widows with children to raise, two adult siblings, that kind of thing. As a general rule, advocates for homosexual “marriage” want to exclude these people from the kind of unions that they say homosexuals have a right to enjoy. They want the status of marriage, and they don’t want it “diluted” by the “non-traditional families” who don’t have a sexual relationship. This is because what they want is for society to make their sexual relationships the legal equivalent of heterosexual ones.

IOW, the push for “gay marriage” is about indulging a delusion concerning the nature of homosexual relationships, not about justice. If it were truly about justice, the movement would include more people who are currently unable to marry, and not just homosexuals. That is very telling piece of evidence against the “this is an issue of fairness” argument.
 
Sorry, my writing can get a bit convoluted at times. Just understand that there are adults who would like the benefits of marriage who cannot marry and who don’t want or can’t have a sexual relationship: I’m thinking two widows with children to raise, two adult siblings, that kind of thing. As a general rule, advocates for homosexual “marriage” want to exclude these people from the kind of unions that they say homosexuals have a right to enjoy. They want the status of marriage, and they don’t want it “diluted” by the “non-traditional families” who don’t have a sexual relationship. This is because what they want is for society to make their sexual relationships the legal equivalent of heterosexual ones.

IOW, the push for “gay marriage” is about indulging a delusion concerning the nature of homosexual relationships, not about justice. If it were truly about justice, the movement would include more people who are currently unable to marry, and not just homosexuals. That is very telling piece of evidence against the “this is an issue of fairness” argument.
Excellent point! I have been struggling with this issue of civil unions vs same-sex marriage, but I couldn't really put my finger on what the difference was. You just clarified the issue enormously for me- thanx for a great post.
 
To the OP: this is super-easy to refute. Explain that there is no such thing as same-sex marriage. Why? Because the foundation of marriage is sexuality, and a sexuality that is open to life. Our culture has lost this idea, so of course our culture has nothing to cling to when faced with the prospect of same-sex unions. So we must explain that sex is rightly ordered to at least be open to procreation.

Why the heck does a government feel the need to certify a union of two people? If it’s simply because of a legal status (for inheritance, etc.), then there are already legal vehicles to do that. No, the reason the govt is in the business of certifying marriages is because the fruit of marriage is children, and this mini-society called the family is what the govt is certifying.

See this thread for a lengthy treatment of same-sex unions.
 
"in the same way slavery was wrong (and I’ll assume it still is wrong), denying “gays” the right to civil union is wrong. "

Gays are not enslaved by not having their “marriages” so-called by the civil authorities. They are still free. Therefore, the argument is literally nonsense.

In addition, gays have the right to civil union: it’s called cohabitation even where it isn’t legally recognized, and even when it is not legally recognized they are still not enslaved. Therefore, the argument again fails.

Finally, to admit the logical coherency of the argument as stated, one is proper in applying the reductio ad absurdum, which is just as logical. To wit:

“in the same way slavery was wrong, denying children the right to civil unions is wrong.”

“in the same way slavery was wrong, denying siblings the right to civil unions is wrong.”

They are just as logically coherent (or incoherent, as it were) as the statement you are refuting.

Now, in my experience you will not get an actual answer but more likely a series of sneers if you use any of these refutations, because the argument is an emotional one, and not a rational one. In that case, if you have the stamina, simply utilize the same tactic against whatever new “emotionalism” they might use to counter.

For example, a hypothetical response to my reductio would run something like: “you guys (a game of ‘tag the apostate to PC orthodoxy’) always make that slippery slope argument”, etc., etc., yada, yada, yada.

But the point is not that you advanced a slippery slope argument, but mirrored the logic of the original argument. It is not our fault to use their adopted tactics to come to a conclusion they do not like. It is, after all, “their logic.” If they do not like the conclusions, abandon the bad logic and try again. I hope this helps.

It is interesting to note that in the states where gay “marriage” has been legalized, after a brief rush to marry in the first few months, the vast majority of gay people do not get married. This causes me to suspect that “civil rights” and “marriage” is not the goal here. Normalization is the true goal.

For what it’s worth…
 
EasterJoy, that shorty helped me a lot. Thanks! 👍

EC & Surritter, thank you as well for your posts. 🙂 The thread link is super a propos!
 
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