False Prophets the most used comeback!

[eddie_too]

it seems that some members of bahaism need to ponder the old axiom that, “words are cheap”.

to give them a start, i see that old axiom as reminding us that anyone can say anything at any time and at any location they might choose, but will often do so when they realize that words are all they have to offer; and, consequently, the actions that give words meaning are unavailable.

 

[PRmerger]

Yep, I must be a fruit-picker then too Cardinal Newman evidently was too, describing the church thus:

 

[eddie_too]

i was taught that the prophetic role in salvation history is primarily the role of teacher.

consequently, the RCC is full of true prophets, many of whom devote their lives to teaching the faith received from Jesus Christ through the apostles and their successors.

these are the “true” prophets of the RCC and the 21st century.

the “true” prophet can be identified by the content and context of his or her teaching. that is also true of the “false” prophet.

anyone who is teaching contrary to the teachings of the RCC is exercising the ministry of a false prophet and vice versa.

 

[Servant19]

So when, in Acts 3, it is said

"For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. "

It is talking about nearly all Catholics?

.

 

[PRmerger]

You would accept Satan?

I need to know what is Truth, test what is being said, and accept it if it is true and deny it if it is false.

That is what we are commanded to do, Servant.

Surely even looking at ANYTHING outside the canon is Satan no?

That is why you are here, Servant. So you can be corrected of all of your peculiar ideas of Catholicism.

You seem to have some very strange misapprehensions about our faith.

So let me correct you: this is not a correct explication of CAtholicism–“even looking at ANYTHING outside the canon is Satan”

Why would you even need to look anywhere else?

I look at what you write and where you profess what is true I give it a

Where it is peculiar or wrong, I correct it.

Why? Use your mind on a more thorough understanding of the canon. EVERYTHING else is not worthy of testing. But I don’t read that from John…

That’s why you need to be corrected here.

No, its actually saying that only mathematicians that say 1+2=3 are true mathematicians. All other mathematicians are actually just plumbers…

When a plumber says, “1+1 = 2” Catholics say, “You have professed the truth, ma’am!”

Come on PR, I am only asking you to not bother testing anything else, and just look at the canon only, obviously with a bit of tongue in cheek and humour.

There are many here on the CAFs who aren’t as indulgent as I am with you, Servant.

So I suggest you tailor your responses back a bit so you can dialogue for longer.

But its still not testing. To truly test, you bring the fruit tree home .

I don’t even know what that means.

 

[PRmerger]

So Jesus gave the Apostles the Trinity, then told them that they can’t bear it now, only to give it to them again through the Spirit of Truth???

Yep. He gave them the seeds. The fruit came later.

Not sure why that is hard for you to accept.

I’m seriously confused by your posts PR

That’s why you need to stay and dialogue, if you can. But perhaps you cannot bear it yet.

I dunno.

 

[PRmerger]

So when, in Acts 3, it is said

"For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. "

It is talking about nearly all Catholics?

It is talking about Christ and His Church.

 

[Vouthon]

Thankyou brother Vouthon.

I want to acknowledge your post and commend you for sharing your thoughts.

Would you say any prophets exist today in the CC?
If so, which are true and which are false?
.

I would say first, as a cautionary detail, that man has an orientation towards divine truth, innate within his being. Therefore, the Holy Spirit can speak through anyone. Even a person who has a ‘false prophecy’ on occasion can speak truth. False is a rather catch-all term. A more accurate definition would perhaps be “”, rather than an absence of any truth. Gnostic ‘prophets’ were ‘false’ but not everything they said was in error. God placed seeds of truth in Gnosticism as well, such as detachment from the world (even if for the wrong reasons!).

 

[Vouthon]

It is talking about nearly all Catholics?

.

Nope but Joel was:

“…And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions…"

Joel 2: 28

The NT interprets this as the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the apostles at Pentecost.

All baptized Christians (not just Catholics) share in the prophetic ministry of Jesus. From the Catechism:

Participation in Christ’s prophetic office

904 "Christ . . . fulfills this prophetic office, not only by the hierarchy . . . but also by the laity. He accordingly both establishes them as witnesses and provides them with the sense of the faith [sensus fidei] and the grace of the word"438

To teach in order to lead others to faith is the task of every preacher and of each believer.439

905 Lay people also fulfill their prophetic mission by evangelization, “that is, the proclamation of Christ by word and the testimony of life.” For lay people, "this evangelization . . . acquires a specific property and peculiar efficacy because it is accomplished in the ordinary circumstances of the world."440

This witness of life, however, is not the sole element in the apostolate; the true apostle is on the lookout for occasions of announcing Christ by word, either to unbelievers . . . or to the faithful.441

906 Lay people who are capable and trained may also collaborate in catechetical formation, in teaching the sacred sciences, and in use of the communications media.442

907 "In accord with the knowledge, competence, and preeminence which they possess, [lay people] have the right and even at times a duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church, and they have a right to make their opinion known to the other Christian faithful, with due regard to the integrity of faith and morals and reverence toward their pastors, and with consideration for the common good and the dignity of persons."443

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p4.htm

However prophetic “gifts”, narrowly so named, are given as the Holy Spirit sees fit. Some are called for a specifically prophetic mission in life.

Examples would be St. Francis of Assisi, St. Catherine of Sienna and St. Hildegard of Bingen. They were both Catholic ‘prophets’.

ie see this descriptions by Pope Benedict XVI of Hildegard:

Today I would like to take up and continue my Reflection on St Hildegard of Bingen, an important female figure of the Middle Ages who was distinguished for her spiritual wisdom and the holiness of her life. Hildegard’s mystical visions resemble those of the Old Testament prophets: expressing herself in the cultural and religious categories of her time, she interpreted the Sacred Scriptures in the light of God, applying them to the various circumstances of life. Thus all those who heard her felt the need to live a consistent and committed Christian lifestyle. In a letter to St Bernard the mystic from the Rhineland confesses: “The vision fascinates my whole being: I do not see with the eyes of the body but it appears to me in the spirit of the mysteries… I recognize the deep meaning of what is expounded on in the Psalter, in the Gospels and in other books, which have been shown to me in the vision. This vision burns like a flame in my breast and in my soul and teaches me to understand the text profoundly” (Epistolarium pars prima I-XC: CCCM 91)…

The popularity that surrounded Hildegard impelled many people to seek her advice. It is for this reason that we have so many of her letters at our disposal. Many male and female monastic communities turned to her, as well as Bishops and Abbots. And many of her answers still apply for us. For instance, Hildegard wrote these words to a community of women religious: “The spiritual life must be tended with great dedication. At first the effort is burdensome because it demands the renunciation of caprices of the pleasures of the flesh and of other such things. But if she lets herself be enthralled by holiness a holy soul will find even contempt for the world sweet and lovable. All that is needed is to take care that the soul does not shrivel” (E. Gronau, Hildegard. Vita di una donna profetica alle origini dell’età moderna, Milan 1996, p. 402). And when the Emperor Frederic Barbarossa caused a schism in the Church by supporting at least three anti-popes against Alexander iii, the legitimate Pope, Hildegard did not hesitate, inspired by her visions, to remind him that even he, the Emperor, was subject to God’s judgement. With fearlessness, a feature of every prophet, she wrote to the Emperor these words as spoken by God: “You will be sorry for this wicked conduct of the godless who despise me! Listen, O King, if you wish to live! Otherwise my sword will pierce you!” (ibid., p. 412).

With the spiritual authority with which she was endowed, in the last years of her life Hildegard set out on journeys, despite her advanced age and the uncomfortable conditions of travel, in order to speak to the people of God. They all listened willingly, even when she spoke severely: they considered her a messenger sent by God. She called above all the monastic communities and the clergy to a life in conformity with their vocation…

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20100908_en.html

St. Hildegard of Bingen is an archetypical Catholic “prophet”.

 

[Vouthon]

See this too.

A “light for her people and her time”: in these words Blessed John Paul II, my Venerable Predecessor, described Saint Hildegard of Bingen in 1979, on the occasion of the eight-hundredth anniversary of the death of this German mystic. This great woman truly stands out crystal clear against the horizon of history for her holiness of life and the originality of her teaching. And, as with every authentic human and theological experience, her authority reaches far beyond the confines of a single epoch or society; despite the distance of time and culture, her thought has proven to be of lasting relevance…

With acute wisdom-filled and prophetic sensitivity, Hildegard focused her attention on the event of revelation.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_letters/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apl_20121007_ildegarda-bingen_en.html

 

[Servant19]

Yep, I must be a fruit-picker then too Cardinal Newman evidently was too, describing the church thus:

Well dear friends (Vouthon and PR), if we are all fruit-pickers (and by fruit, we are talking about teachings) would you both mind divulging which of the teachings of Baha’u’llah are worthy of his falsehood?

.

 

[tonyfish58]

I will offer other another summary of the discussion so far. I think the last 20 or so posts would attest to this following observation;

In reality it appears to come down to only judgement, that is, if you are not of the Catholic Faith you are not on the right path thus a False Prophet.

I personally think the Bible is more open to truths other than this conclusion, as are many other followers of Christ in thousands of different offshoots of Christianity.

What is amazing is that other religious scriptures of the world also tell of the promised day of God, it is not a Biblical only Truth Thus to impute that all these Scriptures all come from False Prophets, is rather presumptuous, could it not be said:shrug:

It may be wise for all to think about Faith for themselves and do it with the mind of a child, that is without per-conceived ideas! Or not…as each have to make their own choice

I know the direction I hope to follow, that is Gods Love is for all Mankind. God left no one alone and sent His messengers to all of us. Each came with an Important message to enable us at the time of Resurrection to see God with our Own Eyes and Know of our Own Knowledge. Thus to be joined as One Human Race under the Love of the One and only True God.

May our lives be a sacrifice for all of the Prophets and May One Planet One People Please be realized as Christ Foretold

Matthew 6:10 King James Version (KJV)

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

Dear friends, would anyone mind answering the question I posed earlier please?

Would you say any prophets exist today in the CC?
If so, which are true and which are false?

Is there anyone who has been entitled a “prophet” whose name is not recorded in the Bible, since it was compiled?

.

 

[Servant19]

Yep. He gave them the seeds. The fruit came later.

Not sure why that is hard for you to accept.

That’s why you need to stay and dialogue, if you can. But perhaps you cannot bear it yet.

I dunno.

So, here you are basically saying that Jesus is the Spirit of Truth PR.

This basically makes what Jesus said in John 16 seem self-contradicting. “He will glorify Me” (??)

Jesus is clearly talking about another Being.

.

 

[Servant19]

It is talking about Christ and His Church.

So when prophet is mentioned in the Bible, is it referring to Jesus and/or other Biblical Prophets or, the as yet to be determined, prophets of the Catholic Church?

.

 

[Servant19]

I need to know what is Truth, test what is being said, and accept it if it is true and deny it if it is false.

That is what we are commanded to do, Servant.

Dear PR. If God has spoken to you, and you KNOW that it is God, why are you looking at other canons and Gospels? The only reason why I would even submit to listening to anyone outside the Baha’i Writings is if Baha’u’llah had comanded me to do so, and He had, so I do.

But you are telling me that there is no other Truth outside Catholic Truth, so what are you looking for?

Baha’u’llah TELLS me that the foundation of His religion LIES in the religious texts of all global religions, and that is why I MUST read those Texts, but you are telling me that Jesus has said the contrary…

But I believe that Jesus actually has opened the door to further revelation from Beings not necessarily affiliated to the Church by membership. Why?

Because in 1 John, it says that “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God”

What does that mean? It means that this verse is talking about a Person, not a teaching. It means that the Person cannot be in the Church (for all Church members confess that Jesus has come in the flesh anyway) and it means that HIS Spirit must be tested.

That is why you are here, Servant. So you can be corrected of all of your peculiar ideas of Catholicism.

You seem to have some very strange misapprehensions about our faith.

Please tell me how so dear friend. I feel I can read the Scriptures with precision, but if I am being imprecise, I wish to learn where and how

Please do not mistake my line of questioning with an unwillingness to dialogue in a humble posture of learning. I would be delighted to learn when the light of reason is shone on a passage

So let me correct you: this is not a correct explication of CAtholicism–“even looking at ANYTHING outside the canon is Satan”

How so? You said that Pope Francis proclaims the Spirit of Truth

I say that contradicts John 16, purely because the Spirit if Truth is clearly a Person, not a proclamation…

When a plumber says, “1+1 = 2” Catholics say, “You have professed the truth, ma’am!”

But we are talking about the mathematicians here, not a plumber.

My humble understanding of 1John 4 is that we should test all mathematician-claimants (Prophet claimants) to see if they are really mathematicians (True Prophets), meaning that there will be some true mathematicians in the future, otherwise why test for them?

You say there is only one mathematician, and thats it.
This understanding contradicts the clear message in 1John 4

.

 

[PRmerger]

Well dear friends (Vouthon and PR), if we are all fruit-pickers (and by fruit, we are talking about teachings) would you both mind divulging which of the teachings of Baha’u’llah are worthy of his falsehood?

.

The most egregious one is claiming to be divine.

Another one is claiming that Jesus is a “manifestation” of God.

And another is claiming that all religions are ONE.

And yet another is proclaiming that Jesus’ resurrection was not a physical resurrection.

 

[PRmerger]

Is there anyone who has been entitled a “prophet” whose name is not recorded in the Bible, since it was compiled?

Given the** title** by the Church? No.

But all baptized Christians are called to proclaim the Word of God, and thus, we all share in the prophetic ministry of The Prophet, Jesus Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

What is amazing is that other religious scriptures of the world also tell of the promised day of God, it is not a Biblical only Truth Thus to impute that all these Scriptures all come from False Prophets, is rather presumptuous, could it not be said:shrug:

Where these false prophets get it correct, we say, Everything that comes from the lips of man need not be false, tony.

 

[PRmerger]

So, here you are basically saying that Jesus is the Spirit of Truth PR.

Yep.

This basically makes what Jesus said in John 16 seem self-contradicting. “He will glorify Me” (??)

Jesus is clearly talking about another Being. .

Another Person, yes.