False Prophets the most used comeback!

[eddie_too]

servant 19 asks,

1. Is there anything in Hebrew Scripture that indicates that God would send a prophet to UNDO the law of circumcision, or the Sabbath?

i respond, i do not know if hebrew scripture indicates Is there anything in Hebrew Scripture that indicates that God would send a prophet to UNDO the law of circumcision, or the Sabbath. but, i would like to know what the question has to do with whether or not Jesus had two human bodies?

1. Baha’u’llah has not “undone” anything. All of Jesus’ teachings have found fulfilment in Baha’u’llah, just has He fulfilled all of Moses’ commandments.

It would be easier to identify which of the teachings of the RCC bahaullah confirms than to list the RCC’s teachings that bahaullah contradicts. bahaullah denies what the RCC teaches on the Trinity, on the Incarnation, on the Resurrection, on Apostolic Succession, on the reliability of the RCC, on the forgiveness of sins, on the nature of the afterlife, etc. etc. etc. i could go on, but these few i listed on the most fundamental teachings of the RCC and bahaullah denies them all.

1. There are over 600 Mosaic Commandments. Do the Christians follow those Commandments today? Or have they all been “undone”?

those mosaic commandments that are disciplinary in nature are not required to be followed by christians. none of them have been undone, but many of them have been discerned to be for the benefit of and ordered and healthy society and are no longer applicable to our current societal situation. the authority for discerning which of the mosaic commands are applicable to our society today resides solely in the magisterium of the RCC. again, i am not sure how this question relates to the question of whether or not Jesus ended up with two human bodies as the bahai seem to believe and teach.

Baha’u’llah has not “undone” anything. All of Jesus’ teachings have found fulfilment in Baha’u’llah, just has He fulfilled all of Moses’ commandments.

There are over 600 Mosaic Commandments. Do the Christians follow those Commandments today? Or have they all been “undone”?

 

[Servant19]

the following, from the Cathechism of the Catholic Church, is part of the RCC’s teachings on the biblical words of “new heavens and a new earth” :

“1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, “new heavens and a new earth.”632 It will be the definitive realization of God’s plan to bring under a single head “all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth.633 (671, 280, 518)”.

there are about 36 other refererences to this phrase in the catechism. it is easy to search and can be accessed on line at

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/.

as an aside, what is the relationship you seem to be trying to make between the words “new earth” and whether or not Jesus of Nazareth ended up with two human bodies?

or, what point are you trying to make with your comment about new earth?

Thankyou eddie

I appreciate your making my research more efficient for me.

I guess the aspect I wish to explore is the fact that there will not be a “heavenly” earth and a “sinful” earth when He returns.

It is the “transformation” of this earth into another one.

In like manner, I envisage that the human being transforms into a spiritual being.

The Ascension into the clouds did not involve any physical clouds, the cloud is a symbolic representation referring to the glorified body being beyond the veil of physical sight…

.

 

[eddie_too]

servanat 19 writes: "In like manner, I envisage that the human being transforms into a spiritual being.

The Ascension into the clouds did not involve any physical clouds, the cloud is a symbolic representation referring to the glorified body being beyond the veil of physical sight…"

i respond, human beings are already spiritual beings. the way you phrase this indicates you really mean that human beings transform in to bodiless beings. that is contrary to what the RCC teaches. that is contrary to the facts that Jesus resurrected body ate food and was touched by His apostles. bodiless beings could not be touched and could not consume food.

while unquestionably the Ascension of the Lord has many spiritual and theological implications, i do not know of anywhere that it is required to believe that there was NO physical Ascension. the apostles were with Jesus many times after His Resurrection. the doctrine of the Ascension is recognition by the RCC that there was a “last” time that the apostles were with Jesus (His Body and Blood, His Soul and Divinity) here on this earth. the exact nature of that “last” time is not definitively known. personally, i am more inclined to believe the physical description of what the apostles experienced that “last” time than to try and substitute some other imagery from my own imagination.

 

[eddie_too]

regarding pope francis’ exhortation quoted earlier and and the analysis that uses it to support the idea that the truths have not been completely revealed, i say in response that you have to have the truths before it becomes important how you express them.

if you do not have the truths, what would be the point of worrying about how you express your not having the truths?

 

[Servant19]

i respond, human beings are already spiritual beings. the way you phrase this indicates you really mean that human beings transform in to bodiless beings. that is contrary to what the RCC teaches. that is contrary to the facts that Jesus resurrected body ate food and was touched by His apostles. bodiless beings could not be touched and could not consume food.

Eating and being touched contradicts the “natural body”/“spiritual body” assertions of 1Cor 15:43

I genuinely believe that the concept of food and “eating” in the Bible has spiritual connotations which have relationships with the sense of “closeness” and “being touched”

We partake of His heavenly manna and we can be so close to Him that it feels as though we could reach out and touch Him.

A physical body is also unable to be at separate and distant places at pretty much the same time. These again are reflective of “spiritual qualities”

I am not 100% sure what a “glorified body” is but it certainly displays more spiritual attributes than physical attributes, and 1 Cor 15 confirms that it is not a “natural body” at all…

.

 

[Servant19]

regarding pope francis’ exhortation quoted earlier and and the analysis that uses it to support the idea that the truths have not been completely revealed, i say in response that you have to have the truths before it becomes important how you express them.

if you do not have the truths, what would be the point of worrying about how you express your not having the truths?

The truths are in the Bible.

I have no problem with the concept that these Truths ask us to “see Christ in all things”

Baha’u’llah has simply expressed these very Truths in a manner that will be more efficient to take it to the masses who may for whatever reason reject Christ.

He expresses a system by which every human being will be enabled, empowered, and accompanied to “see Christ in all things”

Baha’u’llahs mission would be accomplished if all the peoples of the earth were to “see Christ in all things” and abided together, united by that Law

.

 

[eddie_too]

the natural body reference is a “red herring”.

no one in the RCC teaches that Jesus body did not change upon its Resurrection.

the grave was empty. the body of the Resurrected Christ was the SAME body interred in the tomb after His death on the Cross. had it been transformed? yes. that is what the RCC means when it says it was a “glorified body”. it was no longer subject to the same physical limitations that are atttached to the non-glorified (natural?) human body.

in your speculating, how do you explain the empty tomb?

 

[Servant19]

how do you explain the empty tomb?

The body of a Manifestation of God is incredibly holy and sacred.

There are a LOT of speculations open to the tomb being empty.

In reality, if we are to be honest, we are all speculating on the historical facts around the empty tomb

.

 

[eddie_too]

a RC believes in the empty tomb. based on what bahai have written here at catholic answers, a bahai believes the body was still in the tomb.

the implications of these two contradictory beliefs are enormous. since the empty tomb is the foundation of the RC faith, denying it is denying everything that the RCC teaches.

denying everything the RCC teaches is the equivalent of attempting to destroy the RCC.

Jesus started the RCC. i cannot fathom how destroying what Jesus created is God’s will.

 

[eddie_too]

RCs are not “speculating” about the facts surrounding the empty tomb.

we have it from eye witnesses and their witness is known to be true.

the tomb was empty. Jesus appeared in the flesh to His followers after they found the tomb empty.

these facts we received from eyewitnesses.

although, it is also true that Jesus said, “you believe because you have seen, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe”.

 

[eddie_too]

the belief Jesus was referring to in my last post previous is the belief in His physical Resurrection.

the words i quoted were spoken to the apostle thomas by Jesus after thomas touched the wounds in His hands and side.

this occurred after thomas missed Jesus first appearance to the entire (save thomas) group of twelve apostles and thomas upon being told that Jesus had visited them said that thomas would not believe Jesus had risen until thomas had placed his fingers in Jesus wounds.

“blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe”.

 

[Servant19]

Baha’is never have said that the tomb was not empty

Baha’is simply do not know what happened to the body.

All I know, as a Bahai, is that Jesus lives!!



…even today dear friend

.

 

[eddie_too]

bahai do know what happened to the body. what happened to the body is well recorded and based on the testimony of eyewitnesses.

what happened to the body is recorded in all four gospels, matthew, mark, luke and john as well as other books in the new testament.

the RCC has affirmed the truth of these eyewitnesses’ testimony since the first Pentecost Sunday. the RCC has never deviated from professing, teaching and passing on the eyewitness accounts of what happened to the body that had been interred in the now empty tomb.

 

[SteveVH]

Has the Pope, or the Catholic Church, provided a system whereby the Catholic Church creates bonds of unity and mutual support within each and every neighbourhood where a Catholic may reside?

Yes. They’re called parishes and they are in every town and village in every country in the world, with few exceptions. On the other hand, I have never, ever, seen a Baha’i institution in any neighborhood I have visited.

Does this system provide an avenue whereby “everyone” in that neighbourhood/community (whether Catholic or non-Catholic) is accompanied to walk on a journey which will advance their spiritual capacity to “see Christ in ALL things”?

Yes. All are invited to become part of the family of God, the Church. The Church reaches out to all people of the world, Christian or not, and provides not just a means for spiritual advancement but provides for their physical needs as well. The Church has been commanded to teach all nations and it has done a very good job of this, though there is still much to accomplish.

By accompanied here, I do not mean “invited”, I mean served, selflessley served, and walked with “arm-in-arm”, through their tests and trials, their crises and their victories until they become a champion of Christ?

Yes. No one has “selflessly served” mankind more than the Catholic Church, making no distinction between ethnicity or faith, but realizing Christ in each person. “When I was thirsty you gave me drink. When I was hungry you gave me to eat,…” It is called putting flesh on the words of the Gospel.

As I mentioned to Vouthon in a previous thread. Who are the Catholics in my street? Why do they have take no interest in getting to know me as a person and to “accompany” to serve God in a more fulfilling way, to see Christ in all things?

I have no idea why the Catholics in your area have not invited you to the Truth. That would be a failure on their part. On the other hand, I have never been invited to whatever the Baha’i community does. In fact, I have never even met a Baha’i in person. Where are you guys? It seems that human failure is part of all faith traditions, would you not agree? Human failure, however, does not negate the truth that exists in any faith tradition, Catholic or Baha’i.

Were it not for my family following the advice of the global community building guidelines of the Universal House of Justice, I would not even know that there were any Catholics on my street. I would not have known that George from number 54 is living alone, his wife has Alzheimers and he is often alone and loves the fact that we often pop over to share a moments prayer with him, praying for his wife, praying for him, praying for other people in similar situations. He loves our children, because they have a zeal for life!
My children love him because they are worshipping God through this act of love.

To everything that the Baha’i community does in this regard I say .

Were it not for my family knocking on every single door in our neighbourhood, we would not know that there are pre-youth kids who are aware of the massive injustices of the world, yet have no way of knowing where to start in addressing these injustices. We provide an outlet to make permanent, sustainable change, that goes far beyond the any charitable endeavours, because they see that cleaning up the litter on the streets only results in more to be cleaned up next week. So what solutions are there for a sustainable end to littering?

A transformation of the human heart which can only be accomplished through Christ, not a human government.

And all this from the Words of a false prophet that are too flowery to understand or put into practice

Does the Catholic Church have anything like this?

Would you like me to go through a personal inventory of people in my community that have been helped spiritually, physically, emotionally and financially through myself and people of my Church? I think we can dispense with the one-upmanship.

The falseness of your prophet lies in the fact that he does not recognize the Light that has come into the world and leads people away from true freedom which is found only in Christ, replacing it with an idealistic, utopian notion of perfect human governance as the answer to our salvation. He has missed the mark completely.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Baha’is never have said that the tomb was not empty

Baha’is simply do not know what happened to the body.

All I know, as a Bahai, is that Jesus lives!!



…even today dear friend

.

Are you afraid to say you believe Jesus’s body is a corpse in the ground rotten and forgotten, his true self being alive with God in heaven? Does this blasphemer have to say it for you?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

You are free to believe all this.

Consider there are other views.

I’m sorry tony their is only one view that was present with Jesus when Jesus revealed Truth in Himself. Recorded history has the Catholic Church’s apostolic successors received the biblical interpretations from the eye witnesses of Jesus apostles.

Your tablet or prophet got it all wrong for the fact that Jesus already gave the promised Holy Spirit, advocate, Paraclete to His mystical body the Catholic Church on earth upon the apostles. Which proves your tablet or prophet teaches a different Jesus and doctrine that contradicts The teachings and revelations from Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The following scriptures proves your tablet to be outside the full deposit of Truth of Jesus already revealed and ALREADY GIVEN, we do not expect another prophet with another new revelation to give the world. Jesus will do this when He returns and make all things new. I know your tablet does not make all things new.

Luke 24;45-49 Then He (Jesus) opened their minds to understand the scriptures, and said to them (apostles)…You are witnesses of these things. And behold , I send the promise of my Father UPON YOU…

Luke 24;27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets He interpreted to them in ALL the scriptures…

John19;21-23 Jesus said to them… As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. ( Jesus sends His Church with and in/the power of the Holy Spirit not your tablet in the following) And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them , “Receive the HOLY SPIRIT. IF YOU FORGIVE THE SINS OF ANY, THEY ARE FORGIVEN; if you retain the sins of any , they are retained”…

I don’t understand why anyone would need your tablet or prophet, when Christ established His Kingdom on earth with power and authority in the Holy Spirit to forgive sins and retain them?

Does your tablet or prophet posses on earth the power and authority from God to forgive sin and retain another’s sin? If so how?

What does your tablet or prophet bring or give to the world?, other than what Jesus Christ has already given to humanity on earth for all ages, forgiveness of sins.

God knowledge embraces all mankind,
God Bless and regards Tony

I have a problem with your statement of God’s knowledge? No one knows the Father except the Son, and No one knows this Son except the Father, and No one has seen the Father except the Son. Yet you can say God’s knowledge embraces all mankind? Do you know this? Or are you revealing something new about what God knows that only you have knowledge of? You see that is what your tablet translates confusion, to me a simple Christian

 

[Servant19]

bahai do know what happened to the body. what happened to the body is well recorded and based on the testimony of eyewitnesses.

what happened to the body is recorded in all four gospels, matthew, mark, luke and john as well as other books in the new testament.

the RCC has affirmed the truth of these eyewitnesses’ testimony since the first Pentecost Sunday. the RCC has never deviated from professing, teaching and passing on the eyewitness accounts of what happened to the body that had been interred in the now empty tomb.

May I ask you please eddie, who were the “two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning”?

Thanks

.

 

[Servant19]

Are you afraid to say you believe Jesus’s body is a corpse in the ground rotten and forgotten, his true self being alive with God in heaven? Does this blasphemer have to say it for you?

I’m not afraid to say anything when I know what I am saying is truth. I don’t think anyone can categorically and undeniably say what happened to Jesus’ body, whether it died or forsake its “natural” properties to become a glorified body is anyones guess.

So no, I am not afraid dear friend

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I’m not afraid to say anything when I know what I am saying is truth. I don’t think anyone can categorically and undeniably say what happened to Jesus’ body, whether it died or forsake its “natural” properties to become a glorified body is anyones guess.

So no, I am not afraid dear friend

.

Its an option for bahai to believe a body can be eternally sanctified, free from death and literally physically ressurected? Please quote your prophet and your theologians who said this.

 

[Servant19]

Its an option for bahai to believe a body can be eternally sanctified, free from death and literally physically ressurected? Please quote your prophet and your theologians who said this.

Nope, the Bahai teachings categorically deny a physical resurrection. There has to be a reason for this, for denying Christ His divinity is not the reason, otherwise the Virgin Birth would too, have been denied. But as you know the Virgin Birth is categorically AFFIRMED!

As I said, the glorified body is NOT a physical body, as also attested by 1Cor 14:43, and seems to have more spiritual attributes than physical attributes, so outside of that I do not know.

As I stated above, one thing I do know for sure is that Christ is very much alive!

Hope that helps dear brother