False Prophets the most used comeback!

[IgnatianPhilo]

Nope, the Bahai teachings categorically deny a physical resurrection. There has to be a reason for this, for denying Christ His divinity is not the reason, otherwise the Virgin Birth would too, have been denied. But as you know the Virgin Birth is categorically AFFIRMED!

As I said, the glorified body is NOT a physical body, as also attested by 1Cor 14:43, and seems to have more spiritual attributes than physical attributes, so outside of that I do not know.

As I stated above, one thing I do know for sure is that Christ is very much alive!

Hope that helps dear brother

You have no understanding of what a glorified body is. But what I find amazing is that you could not just come out and say it, it has to be forced out of you. Are bahai ashamed of their doctrines or do they just not want people finding out what they believe? That is you believe in gnosticism.

 

[PRmerger]

Amen!

As long as you believe that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead, body and blood, soul and divinity, then we are good!

Yes!

YAYY!!!

Nope, this is contradicted by the words “natural body” as emphasised in 1Cor 15:43

What does “natural body” mean to you?

And how does it contradict the Catholic understanding of the Resurrection?

Absolutely

Maybe I have not been duped…

Only where you believe that this man is Divine, and where he says things that are not consonant with the Truth, given once for all, to the Church.

(p.s I still don’t know how the Spirit of Truth differs with the Holy Spirit in your understanding)
.

It is one and the same.

 

[PRmerger]

Nope, this is contradicted by the words “natural body” as emphasised in 1Cor 15:43

Also, if Jesus’ resurrected body is a new one, what happened to his old one? Was it left in the tomb?

 

[PRmerger]

Is there anything in Hebrew Scripture that indicates that God would send a prophet to UNDO the law of circumcision, or the Sabbath?

No.

The law of circumcision have been FULFILLED. As has the Sabbath.

Baha’u’llah has not “undone” anything. All of Jesus’ teachings have found fulfilment in Baha’u’llah, just has He fulfilled all of Moses’ commandments.

Except where he says things which have divorced themselves from what Christ has given us.

There are over 600 Mosaic Commandments. Do the Christians follow those Commandments today? Or have they all been “undone”

None have been undone.

 

[PRmerger]

Thankyou eddie

I appreciate your making my research more efficient for me.

I guess the aspect I wish to explore is the fact that there will not be a “heavenly” earth and a “sinful” earth when He returns.

It is the “transformation” of this earth into another one.

In like manner, I envisage that the human being transforms into a spiritual being.

Yes. There will not be a heavenly body and a sinful body when we are glorified.

It will be one body, in our perfection, as we are joined to the Eternal Godhead.

The Ascension into the clouds did not involve any physical clouds, the cloud is a symbolic representation referring to the glorified body being beyond the veil of physical sight…

If it was a cloudless day when Jesus ascended, so be it. But if there were clouds when Jesus ascended, so what?

Perhaps there were physical clouds. Perhaps not.

So what?

 

[PRmerger]

Eating and being touched contradicts the “natural body”/“spiritual body” assertions of 1Cor 15:43

Only if you believe that a glorified body can’t eat and be touched.

That’s an assumption you’ve made based on…absolutely nothing.

I genuinely believe that the concept of food and “eating” in the Bible has spiritual connotations which have relationships with the sense of “closeness” and “being touched”

It can. It just doesn’t have ONLY spiritual connotations.

We partake of His heavenly manna and we can be so close to Him that it feels as though we could reach out and touch Him.

And that’s another Bahai teaching that has divorced itself from the faith given once for all to the Church.

There is “as though we could”. We actually are truly and substantially ONE FLESH with Him.

A physical body is also unable to be at separate and distant places at pretty much the same time. These again are reflective of “spiritual qualities”

Says who?

Is there some reason you believe that the God who created ex nihilo couldn’t be physically present in 2 places and “pretty much the same time”?

I am not 100% sure what a “glorified body” is but it certainly displays more spiritual attributes than physical attributes, and 1 Cor 15 confirms that it is not a “natural body” at all…

Perhaps it is “more spiritual” than physical.

As long as you profess it’s both, then what’s not to like about your ideas here?

 

[PRmerger]

He expresses a system by which every human being will be enabled, empowered, and accompanied to “see Christ in all things”

That system already exists, and has existed for 2000 years.

Baha’u’llahs mission would be accomplished if all the peoples of the earth were to “see Christ in all things” and abided together, united by that Law .

As long as what he says is consonant with the one eternal truth proclaimed by the Church, we are good!

 

[Servant19]

What does “natural body” mean to you?

And how does it contradict the Catholic understanding of the Resurrection?

“natural body” means something that can be explored by scientific means, and occupies a definitive space and time (space and time being natural phenomena)

To say that Jesus was resurrected in “blood” contradicts the statement that we are sown a “natural body” since blood is evidently “natural”

It is one and the same.

If Spirit of Truth is the same as the Holy Spirit, then Jesus is deliberately trying to confuse us by using Holy Spirit several times, and now using Spirit of Truth to mean the same thing. Why not just say the Holy Spirit will guide us to all Truth?

Let me know what you think of the following two verses

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” - John 14:26

and :

“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, **even **the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him.” - John 14:15

The Helper is clearly the Holy Spirit, but “EVEN” the Spirit of Truth might be sent.

Clearly something different to the Holy Spirit from my humble perspective…

.

 

[Servant19]

That system already exists, and has existed for 2000 years.

I don’t like to look at any negative things in our world, but the history of the Catholic Church (Crusades, etc) seem to indicate more help and guidance was and is required from God, directly…

.

 

[Servant19]

No.

The law of circumcision have been FULFILLED. As has the Sabbath.

Except where he says things which have divorced themselves from what Christ has given us.

None have been undone.

…this post is unfair and contains double standards.

WE fulfil and YOU contradict Truth. How about both religions fulfil PR?

If we are dialoguing on unjust platforms PR, there is no dialogue.

 

[PRmerger]

…this post is unfair and contains double standards.

How would I present a situation in which there are 2 religions.

One religion fulfills the Old Laws.

The other religion provides innovations and contradictions to the Old Laws.

How would you suggest that I demonstrate this without appearing to be “unfair” and offer “double standards”?

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t like to look at any negative things in our world, but the history of the Catholic Church (Crusades, etc) seem to indicate more help and guidance was and is required from God, directly…

.

That’s because you don’t seem to have the ability to distinguish between those who follow the teachings and those who divorce themselves from the teachings given once for all to the Church.

 

[PRmerger]

“natural body” means something that can be explored by scientific means, and occupies a definitive space and time (space and time being natural phenomena)

Can something be natural and supernatural at the same time, according to your prophet?

To say that Jesus was resurrected in “blood” contradicts the statement that we are sown a “natural body” since blood is evidently “natural”

So where did his blood go upon his death?

 

[Vouthon]

That’s because you don’t seem to have the ability to distinguish between those who follow the teachings and those who divorce themselves from the teachings given once for all to the Church.

Thankfully the church does:

“…Throughout the ages the Church has kept safe and handed on the doctrine received from the Master and from the apostles. In the life of the People of God, as it has made its pilgrim way through the vicissitudes of human history, there has at times appeared a way of acting that was hardly in accord with the spirit of the Gospel or even opposed to it. Nevertheless, the doctrine of the Church that no one is to be coerced into faith has always stood firm…”

- Dignitatis Humanae (Declaration on Religious Freedom), Second Vatican Council, 1965

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651207_dignitatis-humanae_en.html

 

[PRmerger]

If Spirit of Truth is the same as the Holy Spirit, then Jesus is deliberately trying to confuse us by using Holy Spirit several times, and now using Spirit of Truth to mean the same thing. Why not just say the Holy Spirit will guide us to all Truth?

Let’s see…

Here’s 2 quotes by you:

As per the** baby **in the world of the womb analogy where the baby may not develop correct vision etc, the consequences of such things are not necessarily manifested at the time of the disability, but rather when the baby exits the world of the womb into this one.

Originally Posted by Servant19:
Baha’is DO believe that there is ABSOLUTE TRUTH, however it is revealed to us “relatively” in small drops over millennia, as we develop capacity and consciousness to UNDERSTAND…we call it spiritual evolution if you like… (just like the first milk to a** newborn** is less fatty than in 6 weeks time, the “fat” content increases relative to the capacity of the child to “bear it now”, or just like the sun “gradually” rises, to allow for the capacity of creation to withstand its magnificent forces of heat and light)

If a newborn is the same as a baby then are you deliberately trying to confuse us by using newborn sometimes, and sometimes *baby *to mean the same thing? Why not just say baby?

 

[PRmerger]

The Helper is clearly the Holy Spirit, but “EVEN” the Spirit of Truth might be sent.

Clearly something different to the Holy Spirit from my humble perspective…

Perhaps your emphasis on the word EVEN is misconstrued.

[BIBLEDRB]John 14:16[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[PRmerger]

The body of a Manifestation of God is incredibly holy and sacred.

There are a LOT of speculations open to the tomb being empty.

In reality, if we are to be honest, we are all speculating on the historical facts around the empty tomb

.

That is why we have the Church. To let speculation on certain things rest.

Otherwise, you have chaos and confusion.

That’s what happens with the paradigm that is being espoused by your prophet.

 

[Servant19]

How would I present a situation in which there are 2 religions.

One religion fulfills the Old Laws.

The other religion provides innovations and contradictions to the Old Laws.

How would you suggest that I demonstrate this without appearing to be “unfair” and offer “double standards”?

Its not how you could best demonstrate this conclusion you make, dear PR, its all about how you come to such conclusions in the first place, using objective and critical thinking?

 

[PRmerger]

Its not how you could best demonstrate this conclusion you make, dear PR, its all about how you come to such conclusions in the first place, using objective and critical thinking?

Just humor me and answer the question.

How would one present a situation like that without being unfair and offering double standards?

 

[Servant19]

That’s because you don’t seem to have the ability to distinguish between those who follow the teachings and those who divorce themselves from the teachings given once for all to the Church.

Wonderful!!

I am totally able to distinguish between teachings and those who divorce themsleves from them.

That’s not what I orinially asked though PR, if you recall?

What I asked was, how does the Catholic Church ensure measures are in place to eliminate fully the wide gap between teachings and its expression/application in real life?

How does the Catholic Church learn from the mistakes of some of its past leaders to ensure atrocities never happen again? What steps are being taken?

Whats steps are being taken to eliminate the atrocities that occur “outside” the community of Catholicism also? And by this I don’t mean to alleviate the suffering of those who suffered, I mean to eliminate the atrocity altogether…

You say a system has existed for 2000 years, what is this systme that addresses humanity’s needs as I wrote above?

.