False Prophets the most used comeback!

  • Thread starter Thread starter tonyfish58
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Then there’s the Psalms, specifically Ps. 146:3 and Ps.118:8, which teach us about not putting our trust in princes or men.
Are you not putting your trust on the Pope, who is a man? Were all of them Saints?

When you go into confession, do you not put your entire trust on a mere man?
So, unless your One World Gov’t. is going to be composed of living saints…😛
Yes, the one world government will be composed of saints. The process of election will bring in members who have dedicated their entire lives to the selfless, sacrificial service of humankind without a speck of prejudice towards any person. Service to Jews, Christians, Muslims, atheists, black, white, yellow or red, man and woman, adult and child, rich and poor.

The members will be such people. 🙂

.
 
Did Moses, Elijah etcetc preach the Gospel? Or were they not true Prophets?

.
it would be a little hard to preach the Gospel before the birth of Christ. The Old Testament makes it pretty clear who was a true Prophet during that time.
 
it would be a little hard to preach the Gospel before the birth of Christ. The Old Testament makes it pretty clear who was a true Prophet during that time.
But dear friend, this clearly contradicts what you posted here:
A true prophet preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ and is in union with and submissive to the Catholic Church.
Can you please therefore clarify what is a true prophet?

.
 
Are you not putting your trust on the Pope, who is a man? Were all of them Saints?

When you go into confession, do you not put your entire trust on a mere man?
RCIA will explain your misunderstanding. 😃

MJ
 
I EAGERLY look forward to it Martin. I wonder if I’ll get kicked out for asking too many questions though 😛

.
You’ll be kicked out if you try to be a smart aleck. No theological games are played there.

MJ
 
You’ll be kicked out if you try to be a smart aleck. No theological games are played there.

MJ
I hope my record here proves that I do not play ANY games, its an earnest search for Truth, and I hope the fullness of Truth can aid my search 🙂

.
 
Are you not putting your trust on the Pope, who is a man? Were all of them Saints?
No, our trust is not in the MAN but in the OFFICE he holds. The Holy Spirit protects and guides the Church.
When you go into confession, do you not put your entire trust on a mere man?
No, our trust is not in the priest but in Jesus. The priest only acts ‘in persona Christi’.
Yes, the one world government will be composed of saints. The process of election will bring in members who have dedicated their entire lives to the selfless, sacrificial service of humankind without a speck of prejudice towards any person. Service to Jews, Christians, Muslims, atheists, black, white, yellow or red, man and woman, adult and child, rich and poor.
The members will be such people. 🙂
You will not find those people on earth, they are in heaven.

We will have Utopia when Christ returns at the end of the world.
 
But dear friend, this clearly contradicts what you posted here:

Can you please therefore clarify what is a true prophet?
.
OK, I’ll bite. The OT clearly identifies who were the true prophets prior to the coming of Jesus Christ.

After the death of Jesus Christ the only way to identify a true prophet would be by the way he preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ and is in union with the Catholic Church.
 
No, our trust is not in the MAN but in the OFFICE he holds. The Holy Spirit protects and guides the Church.
Yes, this is EXACTLY what is the protector and guider of the Universal House of Justice. The individuals hold no authority, the INSTITUTION is the Voice of God for mankind today 🙂
No, our trust is not in the priest but in Jesus. The priest only acts ‘in persona Christi’.
When acting in persona Christi, all forms of human frailties are often manifested and it leads to the disenchantment of the masses. It is for this reason that human beings are no longer allowed to act in persona Christi in the Baha’i era of human history.
You will not find those people on earth, they are in heaven.
We will have Utopia when Christ returns at the end of the world.
Dear friend, I am aware of Baha’i saints who live in my own city, and I am sure there are plenty going around elsewhere.

Not all saints are Catholic I hazard to put forward for your consideration 🙂

.
 
I hope my record here proves that I do not play ANY games, its an earnest search for Truth, and I hope the fullness of Truth can aid my search 🙂

.
First you will NEED to unlearn what you have learned about what you perceive is Catholicism.

For instance we don’t put trust in man. That is not why we go for confession.

And once you learn more in RCIA you don’t revert the question back to your Faith teachings which you excel in doing here at CAF. The choice is yours.

MJ
 
OK, I’ll bite. The OT clearly identifies who were the true prophets prior to the coming of Jesus Christ.

After the death of Jesus Christ the only way to identify a true prophet would be by the way he preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ and is in union with the Catholic Church.
Ok thanks, and who decided this, and by what authority?

Is there any scriptural basis for this?

.
 
First you will NEED to unlearn what you have learned about what you perceive is Catholicism.

For instance we don’t put trust in man. That is not why we go for confession.

And once you learn more in RCIA you don’t revert the question back to your Faith teachings which you excel in doing here at CAF. The choice is yours.

MJ
So you think that the Holy Spirit can act upon the office of a person, yet you think it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to act upon the office of an Institution, comprised of people each filled with the Holy Spirit?

.
 
I never thought that the Bahai Faith has an official response to anything in the NT. But it is good to know that the Bahai Faith sees the NT as ‘conjecture’. It does mean dialog is impossible since there is no common ground on which to base a discussion.
No dear friend, there is no conjecture at all. The NT was ALL TRUTH for the age in which it was given.

Just like milk is ALL FOOD for a the age of a baby, it can still gain nourishment from the milk, but solid foods are where fulfilment is found.

Just like the NT was the fulfilment of the OT
I can accept that. It does mean we can’t discuss this topic on an equal basis though.
Of course we can, dear friend. 🙂

But be patient with Baha’is, it is a young religion, an extensively HUGE Revelation of Sacred Scripture and because of this some of us are unaware of the way to explain the Biblical verses some of you ask for, and in these situations, some Baha’is may not respond to each and every point you raise. Some posters simply do not have the time to respond incredibly extensively to every point raised…

I pray for your patience dear friend…
What aspects of OT scripture were not fully addressed by Christ? Please, name one because I’m not sure what you mean by this and an example would clarify things. Jesus did not come to ‘explain’ the OT but to ‘fulfill’ it. Perhaps we are dealing with a language barrier here. The fact that some Jews, both past and present, did not accept Jesus doesn’t negate the truth of who he is.
I think you nailed it on the head here vse 🙂

What is the difference between “fulfilling” and “explaining”?

Baha’u’llah, just like Jesus “fulfilled”, He does not explain the meaning behind every verse of the Bible.
I had never even heard of Bahai till this thread. Can you point me to a current, well respected theologian who has written extensively on the validity of The Bab and Bah’u’llah’s claims? Someone on the same level as say, GK Chesterton?
Excuse my ignorance, but I do not know who GK Chesterton is :eek:
(but thank you for the name for it gives me some study material)

Some Christian scholars who have become Baha’i that I know of are:

Robert Stockman (rsmd.net)

Michael Sours (you can find his books here: amazon.co.uk/Books/s?ie=UTF8&field-author=Michael%20W.%20Sours&page=1&rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_27%3AMichael%20W.%20Sours)

…I’m sure other Baha’is can chip in with others if you wish to hear about more 🙂
I never once acted upset. So I don’t know how I can be uncharitable or even unChristian. I see nothing wrong with asking for an explanation of how someone comes to certain conclusions. However it has been my experience that when a person feels backed into a corner they will cease to deal with the argument and attack the person presenting the argument.
But I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that as your religion is very new it is very hard to carry on a cogent argument with a religion that has 2000 years of thought behind it.
Dear, beloved friend in Christ. My references to being uncharitable and unChristian was in no way directed at you, it was actually towards PeaceInChrist who ridiculed, laughed, and rolled his eyes at the Baha’i perspectives several times, which I think is quite hurtful. You can disagree with a kindly tongue and be disciplined in your fervent defines of Catholicism without needing to resort to playground mockery 🙂

You never went to that level vse, you can go back and read the thread and you will realise that I was referring to PeaceInChristnot your dear self 🙂

In terms of “dealing with any argument” Bahai’s would be delighted to deal with anything hurled our way, we will not mock, are humble enough to acknowledge it if we don’t know and will always look for an answer for anyone when reminded that we may have forgotten to address an important point 🙂

Hope that helps?

God bless you!

🙂

.
 
A true prophet preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ and is in union with and submissive to the Catholic Church.
Dear vsedriver,
. Please allow me to enter into your dialogue, and hopefully you will accept from me that I perceive you to be quite sincere in your beliefs and understanding.

. The aforementioned statement discounts the “true prophets” prior to the coming Jesus, the Christ. (at least on face value) Hence, one is led to ask, Were there no true prophets prior to Him?

. For the moment I will assume that this was not what you intended, as I think that you recognize the numerous Old Testament Prophets as “true prophets”, i.e., Noah, Abraham, Moses, as well as the Lesser Prophets, such as Daniel, Jeremiah, Micah, etc., none of whom preached the Gospel of Christ, which had yet to be revealed long after Their days.

. For the sake of argument (but not in an argumentative spirit, mind you), let us suppose that our conversation took place 2500 years ago, well before the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and the establishment of the Catholic Church, which means no one could be submissive to it. Then we must have an entirely different criteria than the above statement for determining the test of prophethood…

. Now that we have established that a “true prophet” can be other than conditioned by the standards proposed, allow us to frame it not only in the past, but in the future, at or following the time of the Return of the Lord. Also, let us consider that as true prophets existed prior to the Catholic Church and the definition thusly does not hinge upon it, again in the future, upon the coming of the promised Lord, Who is submissive not to the Church, but to God, even as Jesus was not submissive to the Pharisees and Sadducees of the Jewish religion, but only to God.

. The result of His not being submissive to the Jewish leaders was sufficient to reject His claim to prophethood as invalid in their eyes, the penalty for which was crucifixion, which they employed as a means of silencing the truths He spoke, to which they had no possible argument. Being bested on their own turf, through rational proofs, they resorted to torture and execution.

. The same means were employed against the Bab beginning in the year 1260 AH, as prophesied in the Books of Daniel and Revelation, by the religious authorities and learned divines of His age. As they could not refute a single word from His lofty utterances and were unable to produce a single line of revelation, no matter how painstakingly they tried, and were immensely embarrassed at their own impotence before Him, they resorted to torture, imprisonment in far away places, such as Chiriq and Mah-Ku, and finally public execution in Tabriz.

. As this thread addresses the topic of labeling as False Prophets anyone who even makes a claim to Prophethood, rest assured that while Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah have been rejected for lack of understanding the basis of Their claims, so too was Jesus labelled as a False Prophet by the Jews, and Moses by the Pharaoh, and Abraham by the idolators of His city, and Noah before Him.

. May I suggest that rather than the simple repetition of “False Prophet… False Prophet…” as a mantra, some serious and unbiased research be established as the first criteria to be fulfilled before qualifying oneself to in any position to say Yea or Nay on the matter.

. Briefly, a careful study of the Quran, from cover to cover, would at least acquaint you with what is said to be a Revelation from God revealed through Prophet Muhammad.
. As to the Bab, availing oneself to Selections from the Writings of the Bab would suffice to exit the forests of ignorance and enter the meadow of knowledge and understanding of that which was revealed by Him.
. Again, for Baha’u’llah, begin by reading the Kitab-i-Iqan (Book of Certitude), which unseals all that which remained “sealed” to Daniel and John the Revelator. Another suggestion of something shorter would be the HIdden Words of Baha’u’llah, which begins:

. "HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES

.This is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of Divine virtue."

. Upon even a rudimentary reading and familiarization of the verses will then qualify one to express intelligibly an opinion, whether for or against, without resorting to lynch mob mentality, which resulted as well in the crucifixion of our Lord, Jesus Christ, and the execution of the Bab, and forty years of exile and imprisonment of the Lord of Hosts, Baha’u’llah, and so many of their followers who, rather than recant their beliefs, accepted torture, imprisonment, and martyrdom in the same pattern as did the early believers in Christ.

. Please forgive me if this post was long.
Thank you for your serious consideration of that which has been said.
God Bless you
 
So you think that the Holy Spirit can act upon the office of a person, yet you think it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to act upon the office of an Institution, comprised of people each filled with the Holy Spirit?

.
First you need to learn about the Holy Spirit and who He is to even start thinking about it.

MJ
 
First you need to learn about the Holy Spirit and who He is to even start thinking about it.

MJ
That’s a pretty week apologetic Martin…I expect more please 🙂

Why is the Holy Spirit exclusive to ONLY Catholicism?

(p.s you do know that the Holy Spirit was written of BEFORE Jesus, right?)

.
 
The circular arguments, non-answers, appeals to Mirza’s writings, rejection of history, and emotional appeals continue. And not one of my points was answered. Thank God the Bahai have come to enlighten us.
 
The circular arguments, non-answers, appeals to Mirza’s writings, rejection of history, and emotional appeals continue. And not one of my points was answered. Thank God the Bahai have come to enlighten us.
Which post of yours has not been answered?

I will try …

.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top