False Prophets the most used comeback!

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. Pardon me good fellow, but are you suggesting that the colossal conundrums of accoutrements embedded in such idiosyncratic equilateral equations of diametrically opposed circumlocution are somehow coruscant in gasconading caricatures for proficuous remunerative sesquipedalians?

. If so, how?

😉
daler, you are just preaching to the choir my friend :eek:

😃
 
Yes you are right they are easy for me to understand because it’s like preaching to a choir.
My friend, you can understand these “basic” terms yet you cannot understand the words “reflection” and “mirror” from St. Basil :eek:

Really???

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If its a mystery, why do you believe the Creed?

Do you believe anything anyone tells you, even if its explained away with the words “its a mystery”?

I can share some good mysteries if that’s the case 😛
😃

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Yes I believe all that the Catholic Church teaches is true.
 
Servant, I see you responded to me. I haven’t had time to respond back. I’ll do so either tomorrow or the next day.
 
If its a mystery, why do you believe the Creed?

Do you believe anything anyone tells you, even if its explained away with the words “its a mystery”?

I can share some good mysteries if that’s the case 😛
😃

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Servant19, you might not know this but we say the Nicene Creed out loud everyday at church it is part of the Mass.
 
Servant19, you might not know this but we say the Nicene Creed out loud everyday at church it is part of the Mass.
Yes, of course dear friend 🙂

I’ve been to several Masses to hear it said.

How many who recite it in the congregation know what they are saying, do you think?

🙂

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If its a mystery, why do you believe the Creed?

Do you believe anything anyone tells you, even if its explained away with the words “its a mystery”?

I can share some good mysteries if that’s the case 😛
😃

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. This is the beauty of science: Whenever someone says of something: “Its a mystery”, a team of scientists apply their minds and their methods and begin to solve the mystery, ruling out what fails to stand up to scrutiny as scientifically unsound and therefore contrary to reason.
. The common translation of “Its a mystery” is actually: “Trust me…”

. That has worked for a long time, but more and more people are beginning to ask, “Why should I trust you?” especially when access to information has risen exponentially in the past 150 years or so. Have you noticed any drop in the market of snake oil lately? “Its a mystery.” The only reason its a mystery is because research has shown it doesn’t cure anything, does not answer the need, and fails to stand up to scientific scrutiny.

. I dare say, that in these times of fulfillment of the prophecies of the latter days that “Knowledge shall increase”, the traditional mysteries are being solved rapidly. Shell games are seen for what they are, illogical arguments are dethroned and replaced with new, workable paradigms and explanations which suit the taste of those who dare to challenge the age old traditions which created barrier after barrier to thinking for ourselves and not simply repeating “Its a mystery”, which in modern times has become a false commodity and little more than an empty mantra contrived to hold sway over the masses who have been discouraged from thinking for themselves, but who are continually praised for simply conforming to hierarchies established to perpetuate their hold on the gullible in order that the may be exploited,manipulated, and well controlled.

. To me, Its a mystery that people still accept “Its a mystery” as a viable answer to a very valid question which hasn’t received an adequate and honest answer and is theologically unfounded, unsound, and dodges away from alternative models well capable of explaining the mysteries logically and with coherence sufficient to pass the muster of the scientific method.

Gpd bless you Albert Einstein, wherever you are, and Darwin, and the Wright Brothers, and Lister, and Jonus Salk, and countless others who solved mystery after mystery.

When I was a kid I stared up the chimney, convinced that Santa would bring me toys on Christmas morning. As to how he could visit every home in the world with megatons of toys in one little slay pulled by flying rheindeer without a wing amongst them: Well, I was taught: “Its a mystery!” Now go back to bed or Santa won’t bring you any presents… ;-(
 
No One can understand the supernatural by using human reasoning. 😉
Physical reality IS an emanation of the supernatural my friend.

The supernatural can be deduced by observing the natural, using human reasoning…
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Physical reality IS an emanation of the supernatural my friend.

The supernatural can be deduced by observing the natural, using human reasoning…
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So, can one understand Transubstantiation by just using human reasoning ?
 
So, can one understand Transubstantiation by just using human reasoning ?
Yes - The Blood , Wine and Bread can be understood as Spiritual Realities.

The Writings of Baha’u’llah explain these issues.

God Bless and regards Tony
 
So, can one understand Transubstantiation by just using human reasoning ?
AS this is a very important subject and one which deserves fully an comprehensive answer suitable and communicated with the utmost intelligence and sound explanation, kindly forgive me for quoting a bit longer than general rules apply, for it is the most efficient and reasonable alternative explanation which has emerged in 2000 years, dispelling superstition while upholding the sacredness of the ritual and defining exactly its true purpose: please bare with me and upon sincere and thoughtful reflection, free from bias, and with original eyes, your honest replies would be most appreciated.

… THE SYMBOLISM OF THE BREAD AND THE WINE Chp 21 Some Answered Questions by Abdul Baha

Question.—The Christ said: “I am the living bread which came down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die.” What is the meaning of this utterance?

Answer.—This bread signifies the heavenly food and divine perfections. So, “If any man eateth of this bread” means if any man acquires heavenly bounty, receives the divine light, or partakes of Christ’s perfections, he thereby gains everlasting life. The blood also signifies the spirit of life and the divine perfections, the lordly splendor and eternal bounty. For all the members of the body gain vital substance from the circulation of the blood.
In the Gospel of St. John, chapter 6, verse 26, it is written: “Ye seek Me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.”

. It is evident that the bread of which the disciples ate and were filled was the heavenly bounty; for in verse 33 of the same chapter it is said: “For the bread of God is He which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.” It is clear that the body of Christ did not descend from heaven, but it came from the womb of Mary; and that which descended from the heaven of God was the spirit of Christ. As the Jews thought that Christ spoke of His body, they made objections, for it is said in the 42nd verse of the same chapter: “And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?”
Reflect how clear it is that what Christ meant by the heavenly bread was His spirit, His bounties, His perfections and His teachings; for it is said in the 63rd verse: “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing.”

. Therefore, it is evident that the spirit of Christ is a heavenly grace which descends from heaven; whosoever receives light from that spirit in abundance—that is to say, the heavenly teachings—finds everlasting life. That is why it is said in the 35th verse: “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to Me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on Me shall never thirst.”

. Notice that “coming to Him” He expresses as eating, and “belief in Him” as drinking. Then it is evident and established that the celestial food is the divine bounties, the spiritual splendors, the heavenly teachings, the universal meaning of Christ. To eat is to draw near to Him, and to drink is to believe in Him. For Christ had an elemental body and a celestial form. The elemental body was crucified, but the heavenly form is living and eternal, and the cause of everlasting life; the first was the human nature, and the second is the divine nature. It is thought by some that the Eucharist is the reality of Christ, and that the Divinity and the Holy Spirit descend into and exist in it. Now when once the Eucharist is taken, after a few moments it is simply disintegrated and entirely transformed. Therefore, how can such a thought be conceived? God forbid! Certainly it is an absolute fantasy.

. To conclude: through the manifestation of Christ, the divine teachings, which are an eternal bounty, were spread abroad, the light of guidance shone forth, and the spirit of life was conferred on man. Whoever found guidance became living; whoever remained lost was seized by enduring death. This bread which came down from heaven was the divine body of Christ, His spiritual elements, which the disciples ate, and through which they gained eternal life.

. The disciples had taken many meals from the hand of Christ; why was the last supper distinguished from the others? It is evident that the heavenly bread did not signify this material bread, but rather the divine nourishment of the spiritual body of Christ, the divine graces and heavenly perfections of which His disciples partook, and with which they became filled.

. In the same way, reflect that when Christ blessed the bread and gave it to His disciples, saying, “This is My body,” and gave grace to them, He was with them in person, in presence, and form. He was not transformed into bread and wine; if He had been turned into bread and wine, He could not have remained with the disciples in body, in person and in presence.

. Then it is clear that the bread and wine were symbols which signified: I have given you My bounties and perfections, and when you have received this bounty, you have gained eternal life and have partaken of your share and your portion of the heavenly nourishment."

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Yes - The Blood , Wine and Bread can be understood as Spiritual Realities.

The Writings of Baha’u’llah explain these issues.

God Bless and regards Tony
Well according to Jesus(John 63) the Flesh(Human reasoning) can not understand Spiritual Realities.New International Version
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you–they are full of the Spirit and life.

New Living Translation
The Spirit alone gives eternal life. Human effort accomplishes nothing. And the very words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

English Standard Version
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

New American Standard Bible
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

King James Bible
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The Spirit is the One who gives life. The flesh doesn’t help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

International Standard Version
It’s the Spirit who gives life; the flesh accomplishes nothing. The words that I’ve spoken to you are spirit and life.

NET Bible
The Spirit is the one who gives life; human nature is of no help! The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“The Spirit is The Life Giver; the body does not benefit anything. The words that I speak with you are spirit and life.”

GOD’S WORD® Translation
Life is spiritual. Your physical existence doesn’t contribute to that life. The words that I have spoken to you are spiritual. They are life.

Jubilee Bible 2000
The Spirit is he that gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken unto you, they are Spirit and they are life.

King James 2000 Bible
It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

American King James Version
It is the spirit that vivifies; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life.

American Standard Version
It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.

Douay-Rheims Bible
It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life.

Darby Bible Translation
It is the Spirit which quickens, the flesh profits nothing: the words which I have spoken unto you are spirit and are life.

English Revised Version
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.

Webster’s Bible Translation
It is the spirit that reviveth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak to you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Weymouth New Testament
It is the spirit which gives Life. The flesh confers no benefit whatever. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and are Life.

World English Bible
It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.

Young’s Literal Translation
the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
 
Well according to Jesus(John 63) the Flesh(Human reasoning) can not understand Spiritual Realities.New International Version
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you–they are full of the Spirit and life."
Techno2000 - That too has been answered.

That is why Baha’u’llah has come as promised, these things are explained.

If man can not understand the Spiritual Concepts to which God has Created Him, then dear friend we may as all just give up right now, there is little point in life 🤷

Do you not know what it means when Christ Said let the Dead Bury the Dead? (The Spiritually Dead man Bury the Physically Dead man)

What about you must be Born again, that is Born into the Material World then Love Christ to be Born again into the Spirit. Christ says who achieves this Death can not overtake them.

Faith is nothing but Spiritual Realities 😉

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
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