Families are forever -- only for Mormons?

[christianley]

I keep hearing Mormons who proclaim they are lucky because they believe families are forever assuming that other Christians and other religions don’t believe this. Truthfully, I’ve never known a Christian who didn’t believe they be together in heaven with their other saved family members and would continue to enjoy a close relationship with them. Christians may not believe they are going to continue to create new worlds with them, but they believe they’ll be closely associated with their family members in heaven.

 

[CCM08]

This may be a protestant belief, however the world to come is mystery. The notion that necular families will continue to exist is not part of Christian teaching. Christ is quite clear when he tells us that we will be like the angels and neither married nor given in marriage that such relationships will not continue to exist. As marriage is only temporal the entire notion of family is equally temporal. Truth is, like anything else in this fallen world, families have their up and down sides. At base, however, a family is exclusionary by nature and will be unneccessary in the world to come. When all live in perfect communion with God there is no need for exclusionary units of people to separate themselves off from others.

 

[Cari]

This may be a protestant belief, however the world to come is mystery. The notion that necular families will continue to exist is not part of Christian teaching. Christ is quite clear when he tells us that we will be like the angels and neither married nor given in marriage that such relationships will not continue to exist. As marriage is only temporal the entire notion of family is equally temporal. Truth is, like anything else in this fallen world, families have their up and down sides. At base, however, a family is exclusionary by nature and will be unneccessary in the world to come. When all live in perfect communion with God there is no need for exclusionary units of people to separate themselves off from others.

Since you didn’t cite any sources for this, I went digging, since it seems to paint a rather dismal picture of heaven (a place where there is no particular affection for my family, despite the “ups and downs” we suffered doesn’t much seem like heaven to me), and of families in general.

If this wasn’t your intent, please forgive me, again, this is the response I had to your post.

The Catholic Encyclopedia’s entry on heaven has this to say about the nature of family (and other) relationships in heaven:

We are created for love and friendship, for indissoluble union with our friends. At the grave of those we love our heart longs for a future reunion. This cry of nature is no delusion. A joyful and everlasting reunion awaits the just man beyond the grave.

So while I don’t think that we’ll be setting up campsites where we clearly mark out “our family” and “your family”'s territory, neither do I think it accurate to say that we can’t expect an intimate relationship with our families in heaven.

(newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm)

 

[The_Truthinator]

“Everyone who has given up…brothers or sisters or mother or father or children…, for my sake and for the Good News, will receive now in return a hundred times as many… brothers, sisters, mothers, children…—along with persecution. And in the world to come that person will have eternal life.” --Mark 10:29-30

Sounds to me like the family just gets a bit bigger …

 

[Hellisreal]

I keep hearing Mormons who proclaim they are lucky because they believe families are forever assuming that other Christians and other religions don’t believe this. Truthfully, I’ve never known a Christian who didn’t believe they be together in heaven with their other saved family members and would continue to enjoy a close relationship with them. Christians may not believe they are going to continue to create new worlds with them, but they believe they’ll be closely associated with their family members in heaven.

But how many wives will most christians see in heaven?

 

[Chris-WA]

Mormons somehow feel that other Christians have a smaller view of heaven because we don’t believe in their concept of eternal families. This has always bothered me, especially the way in which they teach this doctrine to children. Mormon children are taught that in order to be with their family in heaven, they have to be sealed in the temple. The obvious implication is that failing to be sealed in the temple will cause them to lose their families in the hereafter. This is completely rediculous, and contrary to everything God has ever revealed about heaven.

No Christian believes that we will not be together with our families in heaven. But I believe we have a larger view of heaven than the LDS because we acknowledge that our true father is God, and therefore every human being ever created is our brother and sister–as much so as our earthly siblings. Yes we will be in heaven with our family members, but our family will become far larger and more intimate in heaven as we recognize all people as the brothers and sisters they truly are.

I don’t believe in heaven we are divided into separate families as we are here on earth–we are all part one family–the family of God.

 

[CCM08]

For those that believe in necular families in heaven, then I pose the same question the Pharisee’s ask Jesus. If a woman has been married and widowed five times then in the world to come who is her husband? What happens if one spouse makes it and the other is sent to the lake of fire? Does it really sound like heaven to you if some people have this “family” but just like in this fallen world there are people not lucky enough to be part of any of these exclusive groups?

Honestly, the notion that we have families in heaven just seems like a failure to understand the all emcompassing nature of full communion with God. The family is a path to exclusion, and as your quotes notes humans were created for communion. As Christ says we will be like the angels, the angels exist for communion with God. Marriage and families do not survive the grave, what awaits is so much greater than families.

 

[PaulDupre]

I think a Christian has a much better chance than a Mormon of being united with his family in eternity. There are 3 Mormon heavens, and those consigned to the lower levels cannot go to the higher levels to visit their loved ones. Those in the highest level will be very busy copulating, raising spirit children and ruling their planets. Like Mormons on earth, they will have no time for non-Mormon relationships or activities. Those in the lower kingdoms (including Mormon family members who just weren’t quite good enough) will be left to wonder “why doesn’t he write?”. My Mormon sister-in-law informed me that I was no longer a part of their family because I would not be with them in the celestial kingdom (because I left the Mormon church). So much for eternal families.

By contrast, all saved Christians will be in the same heaven, united with the Holy Trinity and with one another in a kind of perfect transcendent intimacy that goes beyond far beyond the kinds of relationships we have on earth. Of course, those who traveled this path to salvation with us - our families and close friends - will always be especially dear to us and we will rejoice with them eternally in Christ for the journey we shared and the victory we won together (through Him, with Him and in Him!).

No separate “kingdoms”, no separation of any kind for Christians. He is the vine and we are the branches. I can’t see what Mormons are so jazzed about. I just don’t think they’ve thought it through.

So sad,
Paul

 

[heathernoel]

How would Jesus’ relationship with his mother fall into place in this discussion? In other words, she is held in the highest esteem, and IS Jesus’ mother. Since that union/bond isn’t broken, wouldn’t ours continue? I am asking this as a 33 year old who lost her mother almost 2 years ago. I desperately hope I will be reunited with her.

TIA.

 

[The_Truthinator]

I am asking this as a 33 year old who lost her mother almost 2 years ago. I desperately hope I will be reunited with her.

Was your mother a believer when she died? Are you? If so, you will be reunited … That is clear. You will be sisters, just as you were in spirit here.

I will pray for reassurance.

 

[Cari]

Honestly, the notion that we have families in heaven just seems like a failure to understand the all emcompassing nature of full communion with God. The family is a path to exclusion, and as your quotes notes humans were created for communion. As Christ says we will be like the angels, the angels exist for communion with God. Marriage and families do not survive the grave, what awaits is so much greater than families.

Please show us where any Church doctrine supports this. You keep mentioning the words “family” and “exclusion” in the same sentences in both your posts, so it makes me wonder if maybe you aren’t bringing your own biases into the OP’s question (and, hey, who isn’t? )

No one is suggesting that it’ll be a clan-situation in heaven. No one is suggesting that there’ll be a Hatfields and McCoy feud potential. What things like the Catholic Encyclopedia talk about is the reunion of loved ones in heaven.

As for the “being like angels” bit, and not being married in heaven, I have seen suggestions (and, bear in mind, ALL this is speculation on this side of the veil) that marriages will be glorified, just as our bodies will. That, in heaven, all our relationships will be stripped of the selfishness, the pettiness, and the misunderstandings that they were perhaps marked with on Earth.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that we’ll all go live in little houses in heaven, with our nuclear familes under the same roof (dear God, I hope not- I don’t want to live under my parents’ roof again! ), but I do think it is supportable and logical that a reunion of loved ones, family members included, awaits us in heaven.

Cheers,
Cari

 

[Hellisreal]

How would Jesus’ relationship with his mother fall into place in this discussion? In other words, she is held in the highest esteem, and IS Jesus’ mother. Since that union/bond isn’t broken, wouldn’t ours continue? I am asking this as a 33 year old who lost her mother almost 2 years ago. I desperately hope I will be reunited with her.

TIA.

Dont fall for this emotional plea.

You have the truth, and the fullness of it.

I have not followed all of your posts, but I dont understand why this is a problem or worry for you, as you know the Catholic Church does not send people to hell.

 

[Allweather]

I’ve never been able to figure out what all the foofaraw is about. There’s only one heaven, and though we don’t understand all that it encompasses, whatever it is, that’s what we’ll find there, assuming we get there.

I believe that one of the signs of a cult is that they have very elaborate constructs of what heaven is. This is all part of the pie-in-the-sky that they are selling. Catholicism, and Protestantism for that matter, are fairly boring by comparison, because we just don’t try to describe all the details of Heaven. All we know is what has been revealed by Scripture, and that isn’t much. Personally, I don’t believe that families will matter one whit to us in Heaven. We’ll probably be aware of the souls of our loved ones, and be happy to be in their presence. But the magnificence of being in the presence of almighty God, and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, will just make everything else of little consequence.

 

[Cari]

I’ve never been able to figure out what all the foofaraw is about.

Me neither. Wait a minute…what’s “foofaraw” anyway? Does it hurt?

 

[Genesis315]

Since you didn’t cite any sources for this, I went digging, since it seems to paint a rather dismal picture of heaven (a place where there is no particular affection for my family, despite the “ups and downs” we suffered doesn’t much seem like heaven to me), and of families in general.

If this wasn’t your intent, please forgive me, again, this is the response I had to your post.

The Catholic Encyclopedia’s entry on heaven has this to say about the nature of family (and other) relationships in heaven:

We are created for love and friendship, for indissoluble union with our friends. At the grave of those we love our heart longs for a future reunion. This cry of nature is no delusion. A joyful and everlasting reunion awaits the just man beyond the grave.

So while I don’t think that we’ll be setting up campsites where we clearly mark out “our family” and “your family”'s territory, neither do I think it accurate to say that we can’t expect an intimate relationship with our families in heaven.

(newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm))

We’ll have intimate relationships with all the saints in Heaven as we will all be partaking of the Divine Nature.

 

[Allweather]

Me neither. Wait a minute…what’s “foofaraw” anyway? Does it hurt?

No more than childbirth…

God bless you and your baby. Your first?

 

[GIMJ]

I think a Christian has a much better chance than a Mormon of being united with his family in eternity. There are 3 Mormon heavens, and those consigned to the lower levels cannot go to the higher levels to visit their loved ones. Those in the highest level will be very busy copulating, raising spirit children and ruling their planets. Like Mormons on earth, they will have no time for non-Mormon relationships or activities. Those in the lower kingdoms (including Mormon family members who just weren’t quite good enough) will be left to wonder “why doesn’t he write?”. My Mormon sister-in-law informed me that I was no longer a part of their family because I would not be with them in the celestial kingdom (because I left the Mormon church). So much for eternal families.

Also keep in mind that within the “highest/greatest/bestest” heaven, there are three further subdivisions. The lowest “degree” of heaven within the greatest (Celestial) heaven is for lackluster Mormons who were baptized but didn’t do too much else. The highest degree used to be reserved for those Mormons who practiced the “higher law” of polygamy. These are the Mormons who will become gods and godesses someday. The middle degree was for Mormons who were married in the temple but not polygamously. Now, of course, the Mormons reject polygamy, and so the middle degree hasn’t got any particular purpose anymore, but continues to exist anyway…

So even if you are a Mormon, depending on your committment to the LDS church, you could still not be together forever.

How would Jesus’ relationship with his mother fall into place in this discussion? In other words, she is held in the highest esteem, and IS Jesus’ mother. Since that union/bond isn’t broken, wouldn’t ours continue? I am asking this as a 33 year old who lost her mother almost 2 years ago. I desperately hope I will be reunited with her.

According to Mormon theology (if you can call it that), God the Father (who is a glorified human being) came down from heaven and had sex with Mary against her knowledge (I suppose she was sleeping or something). That’s the happy story of Jesus’s conception: his mom was raped. Only later on did Mary find out about what had happened by the angel telling her.

Of course, the Mormon church doesn’t talk about this anymore, but it’s never been denied either. In fact, they still publish Mormon Doctrine (roughly similar to a catechism) with these fun little anecdotes!

But to answer your question: No, Mary is not held in esteem in the LDS church. In fact, she’s ignored for the most part. Don’t let this get you down, though. We also ignore Jesus in favor of Joseph Smith and the latest spin coming out of Salt Lake

 

[cor]

Now, of course, the Mormons reject polygamy, and so the middle degree hasn’t got any particular purpose anymore, but continues to exist anyway…

They must say something about it. They must have reworked their theology somehow to fit it in.

According to Mormon theology (if you can call it that), God the Father (who is a glorified human being) came down from heaven and had sex with Mary against her knowledge (I suppose she was sleeping or something). That’s the happy story of Jesus’s conception: his mom was raped. Only later on did Mary find out about what had happened by the angel telling her.

I was aware of the teaching that Heavenly Father had sex with Mary, but I wasn’t aware of the “against her knowledge” part. Do you have any documentation for that aspect?

But to answer your question: No, Mary is not held in esteem in the LDS church. In fact, she’s ignored for the most part. Don’t let this get you down, though. We also ignore Jesus in favor of Joseph Smith and the latest spin coming out of Salt Lake

I believe a few Mormons believe she is the Heavenly Mother. Does Mormonism teach that Heavenly Father has multiple wives? Also are women to be gods too or is it just the men that get to be gods?

 

[GIMJ]

They must say something about it. They must have reworked their theology somehow to fit it in.

No, in fact we don’t. (I am Mormon, by the way) Whenever Mormonism encounters a doctrinal controversy, it does one of three things:

1. It lies
2. It changes
3. It ignores

In the case of polygamy, the Church initially chose option 1 until the federal government got involved. Since 1890 (officially) or 1920 (actually, take your pick!) the Church has chosen option 2.

Because of the controversy this posed to the “3 Degrees of Glory” doctrine, the Church decided to select option 3.

I was aware of the teaching that Heavenly Father had sex with Mary, but I wasn’t aware of the “against her knowledge” part. Do you have any documentation for that aspect?

Yes, but I don’t want to look it up and type it up for you right now. Church leaders were preaching this view of Jesus’ conception until the 1980s. Ever since the Church hiearchy began trying to mainstream itself, this has become a thorny issue. Option 3 has been in effect on this doctrine for the past twenty years.

I believe a few Mormons believe she is the Heavenly Mother. Does Mormonism teach that Heavenly Father has multiple wives? Also are women to be gods too or is it just the men that get to be gods?

I know of no Mormon who believes that Mary is Heavenly Mother. That view is directly contrary to everything that has ever been taught about Heavenly Mother (admittedly, not much). It may be that you have heard of Mormons from denominations other than the LDS Church (the largest one, based in Salt Lake City) who believe that, but again, I find that unlikely.

Mormonism has always taught that Heavenly Father is a polygamist, until recently when they began to teach nothing on the subject at all (Option 3 again!!) The Church has never renounced that doctrine, and so it remains in force, even if no longer spoken of.

Mormon women who are married and sealed to their husbands in the temple and keep their covenants will become godesses when their husbands become gods. However, it is true that in Mormonism a god is not equal to a godess. Mormon men who become gods are equal to upper-case God, women are not. They will be equal to the Heavenly Mother(s) who are subservient to Heavenly Father. Their primary role is to be servant to Heavenly Father and to procreate spirit children for him.

 

[cor]

Mormonism has always taught that Heavenly Father is a polygamist, until recently when they began to teach nothing on the subject at all (Option 3 again!!) The Church has never renounced that doctrine, and so it remains in force, even if no longer spoken of.

Are we, according to Mormon Church teaching, all spirit children of just one of his goddess-wives or several? (IOW do we all have a common Heavenly Mother?)

Thanks for your detailed post.