Families not going to Mass... CCD classes good enough?

[jeaniemarie]

]… puzzleannie had a good one: if you don’t attend Mass you are NOT a candidate for the sacraments.

I think this is against canon law. As I recall someone told me that you can not withold the sacraments.

I don’t think it is right to punish the children for the failure of the parents.

 

[Little_Mary]

I’m sure that’s not the intent. More of an attention getter for the parents…

 

[puzzleannie]

A law specifically stating that you cannot require mass attendance as part of formal religious formation?

I’m
Sounds like a law needs to be changed.

no, I said the law prohibits taking attendance at Mass using tickets, signed bulletins, envelopes etc. Mass attendance is required for reception of sacraments, but we are not allowed to take attendance. dont blame me check out the synod legislation on the diocesan website cdob.org

 

[Dauphin]

Our parish started something like this at the beginning of this year. All the school families were sent letters last fall stating that if they were not attending mass on Sunday’s they would no longer be considered active parishioners and their children would no longer be eligible for the reduced tuition rate.

Attendance at the weekend liturgies has sky-rocketed.

It’s extremely sad that financial inducements are necessary to get people to Mass…

People just don’t know what they have in the Eucharist. We’re so blind…

 

[HouseArrest]

no, I said the law prohibits taking attendance at Mass using tickets, signed bulletins, envelopes etc. Mass attendance is required for reception of sacraments, but we are not allowed to take attendance. dont blame me check out the synod legislation on the diocesan website cdob.org

How are you supposed to require Mass attendance and then not take attendance? It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[EasterJoy]

I taught in a Catholic school where less than half of my students went to Mass on Sundays. I also told my students they needed to attend Church on Sundays, and regularly added it to my school–home letters.
When I brought my concern up at a staff meeting, a co-worker said, “We can’t be telling the parents how they should raise their children.”
:bigyikes:
Oh, really? Isn’t that WHY they spend the big bucks to send their kids to Catholic schools?

I have heard a pastor directly telling kids at his parish school at a school Mass to ASK their parents to take them to Mass on Sundays. I think it breaks his heart that he has to do it, but not as much as the situation that forces him into it.

There are not a few parents who want what the school provides in the way of discipline, order, and educational standards, but not what the faith provides.

Still, if a family goes to Mass the next town over every weekend, so they can have more time to visit their failing grandmother…well, the Mass exists a lot of places. You can’t automatically assume that because people aren’t at their parish Mass that they’re not at Mass. You can’t tether them to the one church building.

Imagine, too, if you are between two parishes, one with a reverent liturgy and one with actual room in their parish school. Where are you going to want to send your kids to school? Where are you going to want to take them to Mass each Sunday? It is different if you are taking the place of a family that actually attends that parish faithfully, but if you participate fully in the fundraisers at the parish school and service projects and whatnot, just attending Mass somewhere else, does that sad situation make you dishonest? Since we’re the same faith, that’s a tough one for me.

 

[EasterJoy]

How are you supposed to require Mass attendance and then not take attendance? It doesn’t make any sense.

It’s called the honor system. It does work on some people.

 

[HouseArrest]

It’s called the honor system. It does work on some people.

Have people actually reported they hadn’t been to Mass and therefore were opting out of the sacrament for the year? Then what do they do, change their ways and do sacrament prep the next year? I can’t even imagine.

I suppose I’m thrown by the word “require”. Usually that word is not used if there isn’t going to be any checking. Because then it isn’t really required, just advised.

 

[puzzleannie]

How are you supposed to require Mass attendance and then not take attendance? It doesn’t make any sense.

as I said, don’t ask me, ask those responsible for writing the synodal legislation.

 

[DiZent]

When I first joined my parish when my kids were young, CCD was on Sundays and people did drop off their kids while they went to Mass. One of the things I did to help me get out of that habit was to volunteer to help with CCD. My son’s class was also during the time when many parishes had reversed the order of sacraments, so he made his First Communion before making his first Reconciliation and made his Confirmation in the 8th grade. My daughter’s class was under a different DRE, and she moved CCD to week nights, and got the sacraments back in the proper sequence. I had difficulty one year - her grade had class on a night I worked, and I couldn’t find other transportation, so opted for CCD home teaching for my daughter that year. I had problems again with my daughter’s Confirmation class, which had been restructured into a 2 year program 9th & 10th grade - again because of work schedules and lack of alternative transportation. Home teaching was not an option for Sacrament preparation, so I had to ask permission for her to attend this at a neighboring parish. Father gave me a lecture, but did grant the permission, and she was confirmed. We did attend Mass more often as a family, but CCD enrollment must have dropped because the next DRE moved it back to Sunday, but Sacrament preparation involves additional evening classes. My grandson is in CCD this year. On the attendance sheet is a place for the parent to check off if the child has attended (or will attend) Mass that day - honor system. Over the course of the school/CCD year, there are several “Mass only” Sundays when the children attend Mass with their class. It’s not a perfect solution, but was implemented because of the “drop off” problem.

 

[boppaid]

I’m not sure I understand how a church could deny a parent the opportunity to home school their child in a sacrament year. I am going to be asking this for my daughter when she makes her first communion in 2 years, as they have CCD between 4:30 and 5:30, and I am at work until 5:15. My daughter and son go to latchkey at their elementary school. I hope they wouldn’t deny my children the sacrament?!?!

When I first joined my parish when my kids were young, CCD was on Sundays and people did drop off their kids while they went to Mass. One of the things I did to help me get out of that habit was to volunteer to help with CCD. My son’s class was also during the time when many parishes had reversed the order of sacraments, so he made his First Communion before making his first Reconciliation and made his Confirmation in the 8th grade. My daughter’s class was under a different DRE, and she moved CCD to week nights, and got the sacraments back in the proper sequence. I had difficulty one year - her grade had class on a night I worked, and I couldn’t find other transportation, so opted for CCD home teaching for my daughter that year. I had problems again with my daughter’s Confirmation class, which had been restructured into a 2 year program 9th & 10th grade - again because of work schedules and lack of alternative transportation. Home teaching was not an option for Sacrament preparation, so I had to ask permission for her to attend this at a neighboring parish. Father gave me a lecture, but did grant the permission, and she was confirmed. We did attend Mass more often as a family, but CCD enrollment must have dropped because the next DRE moved it back to Sunday, but Sacrament preparation involves additional evening classes. My grandson is in CCD this year. On the attendance sheet is a place for the parent to check off if the child has attended (or will attend) Mass that day - honor system. Over the course of the school/CCD year, there are several “Mass only” Sundays when the children attend Mass with their class. It’s not a perfect solution, but was implemented because of the “drop off” problem.

 

[DiZent]

I’m not sure I understand how a church could deny a parent the opportunity to home school their child in a sacrament year. I am going to be asking this for my daughter when she makes her first communion in 2 years, as they have CCD between 4:30 and 5:30, and I am at work until 5:15. My daughter and son go to latchkey at their elementary school. I hope they wouldn’t deny my children the sacrament?!?!

I believe the DRE will work with families on an individual basis, but Home Teaching was discouraged for Sacrament preparation. Reconciliation & Eucharist includes the regular 2nd grade Sunday CCD plus several special meetings that parents needed to attend with their child, and a two Saturday morning retreats. The Confirmation preparation program had 15 weeks of evening classes, service projects and a weekend retreat - they dropped the 2 year program.

 

[HouseArrest]

I don’t think our parish allows home schooling in a sacrament year either. Our kids go to Catholic grade school right now so that is why I don’t know for sure. What I find odd is that parents are not allowed to homeschool, yet during our daughter’s First Reconciliation meeting they handed us the book and then told us to teach it. That was fine with me - I like to do it - but I know that her teacher taught it too. What I don’t understand is that the CCD kids’ parents DID have to teach most of it to their kids. Most of the CCD classes at our parish are spent going to Holy Day masses, participating in the living rosary, cleaning up trash, going to confession, etc. etc. So I think it odd that you’re not allowed to do the thing they are asking the parents to do!

Is this common? I am interested because if our kids wind up at public high school and I have to deal with Confirmation - I am not sure I am ok with our parish’s CCD program.

 

[NReily]

Just shows the whole system could use one big overhaul.

My Ideas:

1. Standardize and Certify one Cirriculum- By each individual Diocese that is approved by Rome before use. (there has to be some beurecratic body that looks at Religious education stuff.) All parishes should conform to this approved cirricculum with some changes allowed for parishes different needs.
2. Standardize qualifications and training for Catechists- Anyone teaching the Faith in a capacity such as this should have some certification (not necessarily a college degree in theology, but have successfully gone through some training process in their diocese that shows their competent in matters of the faith.)
3. Evaluations- After each year, all catechists should have to go some form of evaluation by both the diocese observing them in class, and by their students (essentially some form of examination or survey to see what they actually learned and if it’s actually impacting their lives) Passing this evaluation would allow them to be recertified for the next year, with every 3 or so years having to have taking a certain number of classes on the faith and/ or retaking the certification examination by the diocese.

 

[EasterJoy]

Have people actually reported they hadn’t been to Mass and therefore were opting out of the sacrament for the year? Then what do they do, change their ways and do sacrament prep the next year? I can’t even imagine.

I suppose I’m thrown by the word “require”. Usually that word is not used if there isn’t going to be any checking. Because then it isn’t really required, just advised.

In this case, the obligation in question is binding on all Catholics, all of their lives, so you can’t say that it is just “advised”, either.

I guess you have to say, “Since this is the obligation binding on all Catholics from the time they are ready to study to receive the Sacraments, it is particularly important that families in which a member is preparing for First Reconciliation and First Communion observe it. Attendance at catechism classes does not satisfy this obligation.”

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m not sure I understand how a church could deny a parent the opportunity to home school their child in a sacrament year. I am going to be asking this for my daughter when she makes her first communion in 2 years, as they have CCD between 4:30 and 5:30, and I am at work until 5:15. My daughter and son go to latchkey at their elementary school. I hope they wouldn’t deny my children the sacrament?!?!

I think they’ll work with you. For instance, children in the parish school and the RE program typically prepare separately, but join together for retreats and a few other meetings. If you have a valid reason you cannot attend CCD–e.g., your job, rather than a hobby of your child’s–then most DREs will work with you.

The sooner you work this out, though, the better. He or she may need to schedule some mandatory meetings at a time you can attend, or else figure out how to get you that information privately. If you need to ask a DRE to go out of his or her way, try to do it so that they can plan for you, and have the least disruption in their program.

 

[HouseArrest]

In this case, the obligation in question is binding on all Catholics, all of their lives, so you can’t say that it is just “advised”, either.

I guess you have to say, “Since this is the obligation binding on all Catholics from the time they are ready to study to receive the Sacraments, it is particularly important that families in which a member is preparing for First Reconciliation and First Communion observe it. Attendance at catechism classes does not satisfy this obligation.”

Yes, when you look at the bigger picture, it’s kind of ridiculous to even have to say you require attendance at Mass for sacraments, but Mass attendance is required for life! ARGGGHHH!

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I like the way my parish does CCD.
CCD is between the 845am and 1115am masses. The kiddos go to CCD and the parents go to BIble/Catechism study. There is a “wee” version of CCD for the small ones so the parents can have a little parent time and get into some good discussions.
I have noticed that the Mass attendance is HUGE and that many parents attend the study. I think it works well.

 

[Larowyn]

I was an altar boy at my parish for 13 years, and the last 5 or 6 years was the period of my service in which I was “aware.” I encouraged the altar servers to keep going to Mass after they got Confirmed and also to consider vocations, but I learned quickly that many parents of the servers had a hair trigger attitude about Church in general, as if they were waiting for one little thing to come up to alienate them away from Church.

For me the most recent issue was when I told two girls serving with me to stop gabbing to each other before Mass because they could be heard in the nave. One of their mothers complained to the coordinator of the servers that I was being too harsh on them by expecting them to speak only when necessary and that I didn’t know what it was like to be 13 and a girl. The coordinator must have had to do some slick selling because both girls continued serving as irregularly as before and the mother who complained wouldn’t even make eye contact with me after that for a while.

So anyway remember that if you push Mass attendance too hard the parents will use it as an excuse for not going to Church. They’ll justify themselves by saying that the priests were too cold or the CCD teachers were disciplinarians, and once they convince themselves that their lies are the truth they will never come around.

 

[HouseArrest]

I was an altar boy at my parish for 13 years, and the last 5 or 6 years was the period of my service in which I was “aware.” I encouraged the altar servers to keep going to Mass after they got Confirmed and also to consider vocations, but I learned quickly that many parents of the servers had a hair trigger attitude about Church in general, as if they were waiting for one little thing to come up to alienate them away from Church.

For me the most recent issue was when I told two girls serving with me to stop gabbing to each other before Mass because they could be heard in the nave. One of their mothers complained to the coordinator of the servers that I was being too harsh on them by expecting them to speak only when necessary and that I didn’t know what it was like to be 13 and a girl. The coordinator must have had to do some slick selling because both girls continued serving as irregularly as before and the mother who complained wouldn’t even make eye contact with me after that for a while.

So anyway remember that if you push Mass attendance too hard the parents will use it as an excuse for not going to Church. They’ll justify themselves by saying that the priests were too cold or the CCD teachers were disciplinarians, and once they convince themselves that their lies are the truth they will never come around.

How long can you keep that up? If they are looking for a “way out” you can dance around for years and have it all fall to pieces for some petty instance in which you’ve irritated the parents. I realize you are doing it to keep the kids around, but after awhile people have to be responsible for themselves and for their kids. I’ve also been in the crowd when our pastor “thanked” everyone for coming to Mass and it was confusing. As many people that kept coming because he has resorted to (almost) begging, probably as many read his remarks as they didn’t HAVE to go to Mass, he just preferred it. I think it’s dangerous to not expect the best.