Family and Christmas

[Xantippe]

“And that’s what it’ll be if I tell her, the next time I go down. I can’t afford my little time off to be spent dealing with that from her.”

Can you prepare an exit strategy in advance so that you don’t have to stay in the same house with your mom if the situation sours? Do you have any understanding aunts, uncles, cousins, siblings, etc. that would take you in?

Alternately, you could start talking to your mom now about your Catholicism so that by the time you get there, it will be old news. I don’t suggest any “Big Talks,” but just lots of mentions in passing. “I’m going to meet some friends at the Catholic student center.” “I’m going to a retreat at XYZ monastery. I’m going to be learning about prayer.” “I’m going to RCIA.” “I just got back from a talk by ABC, the Catholic evangelist.” If you are on the phone with her and she acts up, you can cut short the conversation. Keep repeating until she can hear you out without losing it. If, over the course of four months, she isn’t able to hear you mention your activities without freaking out, either don’t go, go for Thanksgiving or spring break, or go, but make plans to stay elsewhere. You might even just make it a really short trip and pay for a couple nights in a hotel (I know that would be expensive for you in your position).

The good thing is, you have months to prepare for this, and you do have a fairly strong hand. Your mom can’t force you to do anything.

I would also suggest that if you choose to stay at your mom’s home, that you make a stronger than normal effort to be helpful around the house and low-maintenance.

 

[quiet52]

Christmas is on a Wednesday this year. If you believe it will be absolutely impossible for you to attend Mass while you’re in your parents’ town, then tell them you will visit them and your grandparents 12/26 to 12/28.

Let the drama bounce off, no matter what. Let your mom behave how she wants to. You don’t need to respond in kind. Don’t argue, don’t explain, be forgiving and affirming when possible, and be loving. The Christmas season is a time to be joyful and at peace. Even if you’re the only person trying to be joyful and at peace, that would be a good thing. Allow yourself to pray through all difficult moments – remember that Emmanuel (“God with us”), whose birthday we celebrate during the season, is indeed with you. You can choose to be in union with Him, or not.

 

[EasterJoy]

Usually she wants me for both - the idea is to come down and spend a week there, since we don’t have the money to fly me out more than once a year.

Trouble is I’m having a hard time coming up with “other plans” to have for that time. She knows I’m out here by myself, she doesn’t think I should be going to parties, and she knows I don’t work then.

Check your calendar. If Holy Week doesn’t fall during your Spring Break, go during Spring Break, instead.

What is this “social life” you’re talking about? You’re a graduate student! You don’t have a social life!! On that account, you can tell her that sorry, graduate students have work to do outside of class time, just because classes aren’t in session for the undergraduates doesn’t mean you have nothing to do, and Spring Break is going to be a better time for you.

Also, unless you’re some super-prodigy, you’re a grown-up now. It is about time that you tell your mother that she doesn’t get to decide whether or not you go to parties or when it is a good time for you to visit. You tell her when it is or isn’t a good time, and she doesn’t get to force you to come up with reasons. You’re going to have to repeat yourself a lot, but eventually she will get that “I’m not going in to all my calculations, Mom. Spring Break is the best time, if you want to see me, and unless I can tell my research director that Grandma or Grandpa are at death’s door, that’s when I’ll be coming.” repeat repeat repeat…

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I’ve read your other threads so I am familiar with the situation regarding your mom.

I don’t think that you can win in this situation. If you go home to see the grandparents you will pay the price for it. She will harass you over your faith and everything else. I completely understand why you want to avoid that. But would you be willing to undergo this torture for the sake of seeing your grandparents and make this the last time? And then find an excuse for every single holiday in the future and spare yourself.

This is the best I can offer. And my prayers.

 

[DarkLight]

I know, there’s no magic words that’ll fix my mother. I do wish there was something I could say or do that would keep me from being the bad child to the rest of the family. I’m sick of hearing “You know, your mother was very upset by what you said.” Her being upset by it does not necessarily mean I did something wrong.

 

[EasterJoy]

I know, there’s no magic words that’ll fix my mother. I do wish there was something I could say or do that would keep me from being the bad child to the rest of the family. I’m sick of hearing “You know, your mother was very upset by what you said.” Her being upset by it does not necessarily mean I did something wrong.

Bing…bing…bing…you have it!

There are a lot of families where some people use “alliance building” to pressure others in the family to do what they want. If the group thinks you ought to do something, then by golly, you’re expected to do it. They somehow don’t realize that yes, your flesh and blood can be rightly told to quit using gossip as if they lived in a French royal court and mind their own business.

You are wise to respond by saying, “Yes, Mom let me know she was not pleased” or if she did not tell you, you can say, “Well, Mom didn’t choose to tell me that herself, so let’s assume she didn’t want me told.” And then let it drop, because you’ve let them know that you don’t owe them an explanation and don’t intend to discuss your relationship with your mother with anyone but your mother. Don’t invite the peanut gallery into the mix, that is the last thing that will help!

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

I’m a little confused. When you say, “I’ve not told HER I’m Catholic”, are you referring to your grandmother? Your mother? Is the pressure to visit a certain way coming from your parents? Is the issue that the only reason you want to visit is to be with your grandparents? Do they live with your grandparents?

Based on what I think the situation is, I don’t see how you can avoid telling them you are Catholic unless you don’t visit on a weekend. My opinion is to tell them NOW that you are Catholic, and let them take the next 5 months to get used to the idea. Have enough conversations with them between now and then that you can answer respectful questions, have a discussion or two about it, and set the ground rules for future discussions. IOW, if there is going to be abuse over your faith, they will start dishing it out over the phone, and you will be able to set boundaries when all you have to do is say goodbye and hang up. By Christmas, it will be old news, and you will have had enough interaction with them on the topic to be able to say, “I understand you disagree with me, but I’m asking you to be respectful. We’ve already been through this discussion, and for the sake of us being able to enjoy this visit, we are going to need to agree to disagree right now. Let’s talk about something else. So how about the crazy weather we’ve been having?”

Next, I would arrange to go to visit on Dec. 26th, and stay for a week. This way you are giving them a week, including New Years, and you can talk up the fact that there are 12 days of Christmas - even non-Catholics sing that song, don’t they? Just present it to them as “I’d love to come. These are the dates I am free to come.” Keep in mind, that even if you aren’t visiting them on Christmas day, there is still going to be Mass on the Sunday after Christmas, as well as the Holy Day of Obligation on New Year’s Day. So any visit is going to have to include.

Honestly, if you know that you won’t be able to take a full week, then choose a number of days that you can handle, and tell them those dates. Consider saying, “I can’t come for Christmas, but I’ll will come for New Years.” If you’ve already had a couple of arguments about being Catholic, you can even say, “because of all the tension between us about my religion, I think we will have a much nicer visit if I come after Christmas. I really want to enjoy this time with you, so I’d like to come on these dates:…”

 

[DarkLight]

I’m a little confused. When you say, “I’ve not told HER I’m Catholic”, are you referring to your grandmother? Your mother? Is the pressure to visit a certain way coming from your parents? Is the issue that the only reason you want to visit is to be with your grandparents? Do they live with your grandparents?

Based on what I think the situation is, I don’t see how you can avoid telling them you are Catholic unless you don’t visit on a weekend. My opinion is to tell them NOW that you are Catholic, and let them take the next 5 months to get used to the idea. Have enough conversations with them between now and then that you can answer respectful questions, have a discussion or two about it, and set the ground rules for future discussions. IOW, if there is going to be abuse over your faith, they will start dishing it out over the phone, and you will be able to set boundaries when all you have to do is say goodbye and hang up. By Christmas, it will be old news, and you will have had enough interaction with them on the topic to be able to say, “I understand you disagree with me, but I’m asking you to be respectful. We’ve already been through this discussion, and for the sake of us being able to enjoy this visit, we are going to need to agree to disagree right now. Let’s talk about something else. So how about the crazy weather we’ve been having?”

Next, I would arrange to go to visit on Dec. 26th, and stay for a week. This way you are giving them a week, including New Years, and you can talk up the fact that there are 12 days of Christmas - even non-Catholics sing that song, don’t they? Just present it to them as “I’d love to come. These are the dates I am free to come.” Keep in mind, that even if you aren’t visiting them on Christmas day, there is still going to be Mass on the Sunday after Christmas, as well as the Holy Day of Obligation on New Year’s Day. So any visit is going to have to include.

Honestly, if you know that you won’t be able to take a full week, then choose a number of days that you can handle, and tell them those dates. Consider saying, “I can’t come for Christmas, but I’ll will come for New Years.” If you’ve already had a couple of arguments about being Catholic, you can even say, “because of all the tension between us about my religion, I think we will have a much nicer visit if I come after Christmas. I really want to enjoy this time with you, so I’d like to come on these dates:…”

I think the issue isn’t that we have arguments about being Catholic. I haven’t told anyone in my family that. The issue is that my mother wants to argue with me about EVERYTHING! She really is still stuck in the mindset that I’m just a stupid rebellious teenager who could have a perfect life if I would just do everything her way. Believe me telling her in advance will not help the situation - it won’t get her used to it, it’ll just give her time to hoard up more reasons why I’m bad. Oh yeah, did I mention refusing to talk about it is “disrespectful”?

I only want to visit so I can see my grandparents. If they weren’t in the picture I honestly would say “I’m not doing this until you treat me with some respect.” I can’t afford to get myself out there however. My parents typically pay for me to come out to their place and then we drive down to my grandparents’ place. I don’t even own a car and I’m struggling just to make ends meet on my own.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Believe me telling her in advance will not help the situation - it won’t get her used to it, it’ll just give her time to hoard up more reasons why I’m bad. Oh yeah, did I mention refusing to talk about it is “disrespectful”?

What I mean by that, is that you won’t be springing new information on her by then. She will already have had time to digest what you have done. And true she will also have had time to think of more things to argue about, but I’m sure she would come up with something to argue about even if you sprung it on her. My point is that it is better to have the initial conversations with someone like her when you are on the phone, so you are not tied to her location. And then several months later, when you are in person, you can say, “We’ve already discussed it, and we’re not going to change each other’s minds. I am not going to talk about this anymore,” and you will know that you gave her a fair chance to understand and digest the information, and that it is not unfair of you to want to stop talking about it (rather than springing such big news on someone and expecting them to have zero questions whatsoever). She is not likely to change, so you will just have to set boundaries. She can think you are bad and disrespectful all she wants, that doesn’t mean you HAVE to talk to her about the topic. And you may not be able to drive away, but you can leave the room, or leave the building for a couple of hours. And you can say, “if this is the way you are going to treat me when I visit, I’m not going to visit as much (or at all - depending on your stance)” I agree with you that it is a difficult situation to rely on their help to get you there. Can you afford bus fare? Can you stay with your grandparents? Can you go for a couple of days only? Can you find a way to make/save enough money over the next several months to pay for a night at a motel and bus fare? I guess you do have to decide if putting up with your parents is worth it to visit your grandparents. You have to weigh how important it is to see them against how bad you think the rest of the visit will be.

 

[Xantippe]

Dark Light,

Where is your dad in all of this? Tiptoeing around mom?

I would suggest being pleasant and helpful at home and retiring as early as decently possible to bed every night. You can take nice long, healthy walks outside during the day (even if it’s 20 below), sight-seeing, bird-watching, lunch with an auntie or uncle or cousin, etc. Obviously, the goal is to limit your time with your mom, but not be obvious about it. Don’t forget, you’re in school. You probably have some tough classes coming up or some major exam. Take a pile of books (or other props) and study. You should probably make a big deal about making some time just to see your mom by herself (lunch or a walk or a cooking project or something), while dodging her the rest of the visit. Try to make some plans and to work up some sort of schedule for the holiday so that there isn’t a lot of just-hanging-around-the-house-arguing time. Also (speaking as a mom), try not to let your mom see you hanging around the house on the computer or playing XBox or whatever–in this situation, that is a big no-no. Your mom will be more or less killing herself putting together the Christmas festivities, which will tend to make her more volatile, especially if she sees you goofing off.

This may or may not be the last time you see your grandparents. I’m in my late 30s and I still have one set of grandparents (very late 80s/very early 90s). At this point, any visit really may be the last one, but you never know. Brace yourself for the fact that you may be making this yearly trip for quite a number of years. If you can eventually have a little bit of money for a couple nights in a hotel and a car rental, this trip can eventually be done in much greater comfort.

 

[Xantippe]

“I’m sure she would come up with something to argue about even if you sprung it on her.”

Right.

 

[DarkLight]

Dark Light,

Where is your dad in all of this? Tiptoeing around mom?

I would suggest being pleasant and helpful at home and retiring as early as decently possible to bed every night. You can take nice long, healthy walks outside during the day (even if it’s 20 below), sight-seeing, bird-watching, lunch with an auntie or uncle or cousin, etc. Obviously, the goal is to limit your time with your mom, but not be obvious about it. Don’t forget, you’re in school. You probably have some tough classes coming up or some major exam. Take a pile of books (or other props) and study. You should probably make a big deal about making some time just to see your mom by herself (lunch or a walk or a cooking project or something), while dodging her the rest of the visit. Try to make some plans and to work up some sort of schedule for the holiday so that there isn’t a lot of just-hanging-around-the-house-arguing time. Also (speaking as a mom), try not to let your mom see you hanging around the house on the computer or playing XBox or whatever–in this situation, that is a big no-no. Your mom will be more or less killing herself putting together the Christmas festivities, which will tend to make her more volatile, especially if she sees you goofing off.

This may or may not be the last time you see your grandparents. I’m in my late 30s and I still have one set of grandparents (very late 80s/very early 90s). At this point, any visit really may be the last one, but you never know. Brace yourself for the fact that you may be making this yearly trip for quite a number of years. If you can eventually have a little bit of money for a couple nights in a hotel and a car rental, this trip can eventually be done in much greater comfort.

“Tiptoeing around mom” is right - plus my Dad tries to play the peacemaker in unhelpful ways. He’ll push me to make it up to her whenever something I do makes her upset or angry. It makes it a lot harder because I have little other family than my parents and grandparents (his side only), and I’m being labelled the bad one for Mom’s bad behavior.

I do expect I won’t be this broke for more than another year. My current program is exceptionally bad for keeping its students at poverty line even for single adults. And once I’m less broke and more mentally stable I’ll be better able to seek a more permanent solution.

 

[EasterJoy]

“Tiptoeing around mom” is right - plus my Dad tries to play the peacemaker in unhelpful ways. He’ll push me to make it up to her whenever something I do makes her upset or angry. It makes it a lot harder because I have little other family than my parents and grandparents (his side only), and I’m being labelled the bad one for Mom’s bad behavior.

I do expect I won’t be this broke for more than another year. My current program is exceptionally bad for keeping its students at poverty line even for single adults. And once I’m less broke and more mentally stable I’ll be better able to seek a more permanent solution.

Your dad has tried the strategy of “give her what she wants, and you’ll have peace.” That does not work, though, does it? What you get is a somewhat lower level of drama, but also a big quiet knot in your gut. You can choose that, but if you do, then choose it!

If you decide to go for Christmas break and go to Mass, you will survive the disapproval and scenes and all the rest. If you decide that the only way you’re going to be able to go to Mass on Christmas and the Solemnity of Mary is to stay where you are, then you will survive the disapproval of that and you will survive being away from home for that Christmas. The thing is to think through the various things you can do and what the worst repercussions that will come from them, and choose your poison.

I think the way to handle this is the imagine that instead of them being the adult and you the child, you imagine that you are the adult and they are the child. How would you describe their tactics in that case? Kind of all the tricks that kids normally try, right–tantrums, name-calling, shows of withdrawal of love, trying to turn other people against you, the whole nine yards. Now, you know as well as I do that a parent cannot give in to these tactics, or they will have a spoiled brat. You also know that a parent who refuses these tactics has to simply hold firm and ride them out. They do not believe all the stuff their kids spew out in order to manipulate them. They know that is the desire to manipulate talking, right? Even if the kid throws a tantrum in a grocery store, the parent has to remain firm and not care what conclusions other people are going to jump to. They do not believe that a child who holds her breath until she gets what she wants is actually going to die. They let her try it, they let her fail, and no one dies.

This is where you are. No matter what you do, you are going to get the tactics of manipulation tried on you. The best way to extinguish those is to cut off all reward for them and do not relent–no infrequent rewards, nothing! You have to draw your boundaries and make it very clear that resistance is futile. If some relative level of respect for your boundaries can be won, that is the way. If not, well, you still have to enforce them. The only other alternative is that weight on your shoulders, that awful knot in your gut, and that band of steel around your chest that won’t let you breathe.

Choose what you want and accept the consequences that others will throw at you. It is the best way to serenity. From what you’re saying, I think I’d choose to let my mom know "I’m coming home, but don’t plan on me for Christmas morning, because I’m going to Mass. I’m also going on New Year’s morning. " Don’t discuss it, don’t defend it, just announce that this is your plan. “I’m sorry you feel that way, but that is my plan. If that is going to upset you too much, I don’t have to come home, but I am going to observe the holy days, and I’m not missing that for anything. I’d rather come home and see you and Dad and Grandma and Grandpa, though.” Then I’d batten down the hatches and know that you’ll survive whatever tactics she throws at you.

If that is too much, then you can stay home, but I think that if you firmly and peaceably start drawing your boundaries and standing by them, you’re going to feel good about it. I think that between now and December you can be ready for your first big exercise in letting your mom know you love her but make your own decisions. I think when you start doing that, it will feel good, even if she goes ballistic and throw everything at you at first. You’ll be ready for her blitzkrieg, you won’t let it work, she’ll live, and you’ll have a better relationship. Still, you have to choose your own way, not mine.

 

[Razanir]

Or visit for New Years day.

I was going to suggest it. Then I remembered the Solemnity of Mary is on New Year’s. Advice: If you’re worried about them accusing you of worshiping statues, same that one for a different conversation.

Check your calendar. If Holy Week doesn’t fall during your Spring Break, go during Spring Break, instead.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! I can almost entirely guarantee that’ll work for 2014. Easter’s not until 4/20. I highly doubt anyone has Spring Break near the end of April.

 

[EasterJoy]

I was going to suggest it. Then I remembered the Solemnity of Mary is on New Year’s. Advice: If you’re worried about them accusing you of worshiping statues, same that one for a different conversation.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! I can almost entirely guarantee that’ll work for 2014. Easter’s not until 4/20. I highly doubt anyone has Spring Break near the end of April.

Oh, goodness you don’t have to tell them it is the Solemnity of Mary! You only have to tell them that you’re going to Mass either on New Year’s Eve or on New Year’s Day, and that it is not negotiable. What an adult does out of religious obligation and what is done out of personal religious ardor is the business of that adult. You can’t lie, but you certainly don’t have to run the reasons for your choices by people who at best will decide not to argue with you.

I’ve found that giving reasons for what I do to argumentative people is just an invitation to argue. The reason “because I’ve decided I’m doing this and I’m not changing my mind, so it is pointless to discuss my reasons” is reason enough. If there is a zero percent chance that your reasons are going to satisfy someone, then there is zero reason to disclose them. Nothing good can come of it, so don’t do it. I’m not shy about saying so: “Why won’t you tell me the reason?” “Because when I give you my reasons, you don’t take them as information. You take them as an invitation to debate. Since I have no intention of debating, I see no reason to give you my reasons. When that changes, then you’ll find I’ll be more forthcoming. Until then, my reasons are my reasons, sorry.”