Family drama

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migurl

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Ok, so cliff notes of my situation-my sister in law is a fallen away catholic in a relationship with a Non-catholic Christian. She has a son from another man. She just moved back to the area from Texas where she was living with her current boyfriend. NOw that she is back she is looking for a place to live with said BF. My problem is that she invited my family to a b-day party for her son. Its at a local pizza joint and I think it is fine to go for our nephew, but my hubby disagrees. He says that if we go we are condoning her choice to live in sin and that if we continue to allow her to come over to our home, attend family events etc-basically like have life like it was before, that she will never change because she will have no motivation to. I do not want to punish our nephew but I can’t condone her co-habitating either. I have 4 kids, the oldest of which is 5 and hubby and I are concerned that he might ask questions as he will not be addressing her bf as Uncle…he is old enough to wonder about these things and that is a concern for us at this time. I really need some advice because I do NOT want to fight with my hubby about this but the catechism doesn’t seem to have anything to answer this specific question.
 
While you shouldn’t agree with your sister’s choosing cohabitation, I do agree that foregoing all family events would do nothing to change her ways. By doing so, it is quite possible that you could be, in the long run, severing an important relationship. I don’t see a problem with attending a birthday party outside her home. I do, however, agree that you should not attend all family events. If the party were being held in her home, where it is obvious they are living together, it would expose your children to unnecessary scandal. I would not attend such an event.

As for calling her boyfriend an uncle, I don’t see that as a problem, either. He only needs to addressed as a “friend” of your sister’s. At 5 years of age and younger, that is sufficient explanation, without being dishonest. He is not an uncle, and will not be until he’s wearing the ring to prove it. If he takes offence, that’s not your problem!
 
If spending time with family members who sin is condoning their sinning, then your husband might as well just stay home alone, because we all sin.
 
What your dh is describing sounds more like shunning than providing motivation. And shunning is not a Catholic practice. If he refuses any contact with her as long as she commits this particular sin, I think she will write him off, and she will definitely choose her life over a relationship with him.

While I wouldn’t want to bring my children to her house, where her sins would become obvious and would cause scandal, she is not asking you to a house, but to a pizza place. And she is not asking you to celebrate her relationship, but the existence of your nephew. This is the time to go and show her that you love her and you love your nephew. Then when she does ask you to support something wrong or to scandalize your kids, you can say no from a position of someone who cares about her, rather than someone who would rather cast her off.
 
If my family boycotted my child’s birthday because I was “living in sin” it would not motivate me to change, it would just show me who I can really count on in life and who I should really consider family.

Same with not welcoming me to family events or not wanting me in their home.
 
So, are they living together at the pizza joint?

Is the idea if the sin is observable by others then they should not be included in family life?

Or if they sin they should not be included in family life.
 
migurl said:
My problem is that she invited my family to a b-day party for her son. Its at a local pizza joint and I think it is fine to go for our nephew, but my hubby disagrees. .
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What strikes me is that she is back and this issue will come up again and again. This is one of these things that can lead to real tension in your own marriage. My advice, since you and you DH need to come to terms and make decisions not just about this but the future, is to make an appointment with, or invite to dinner, your Pastor. Our parish priests are really supposed to be there for us in just these kinds of situations. He can best advise you on the spiritual aspects, has experience seeing how families are affected by these family dramas, and you and your DH can choose to defer to him in this and not fight with one another. Or at least in discussion have a reference to sound spiritual counselling.
 
Wow, thank God some people still are offended by co-habitation. None of my parents cared when I or my sister or my step-sister did it.

Thanks for at least having some concern. I would, however, go to the party… they are not able to co-habitate at a pizza restaurant and odds are there’s many others in the pizza place doing the same but we cannot always escape the evils around us, we can only accept people and do our best, and try to avoid sinning ourselves. This is tougher as our faith increases because we live in really morally-low times.

Lily
 
Heres what I would do and its only an opinion.

It doesn’t sound like they are staunch atheists and will probably want to have the usual Christmas fun times and other possible theme potentials.

So I would explain to them that as far as I’m concerned, you guys are married, thats what we are telling the children, you married each other in the witness & translation of God that you understand, representing all that is known and thus perceived in your own way, at this time. …its their consequence in the whole thing, they are the ones subject to a failed commitment…it could also be money related or something

And then tell them…hey you guys split and as far as we are concerned and the children, another failed marriage…so the family will know it as marriage- failure. That way and as well you gotta say things nicely…they are important to you, and you want to have them all in your lives…you can’t be a good influence on people away from you This is my opinion and I’m sure some will have their opinion but notice I’m not interjecting…an assortment of opinions is best and what getting opinions is all about, good luck and I hope you all can be very happy
 
Being new to Catholicism and, well… moral standards… I think I have some insight. Some of the best witnesses to Christianity to me were the ones that accepted to me, while not accepting my lifestyle. I was treated well and with compassion. That did more to woo me over than any word of evangelism.

I truly believe that shunning her, which is what your husband is asking, would have the worst effect. Please consider who Jesus Himself ate with.
 
First off I want to say that I appreciate everyone (name removed by moderator)ut.
I also want to say that I will not lie to my children. Granted, they may not care that Mommy and Daddy fibbed a bit on when they got married, but my husband and I agree that to lie about something like that is to damage the trust our children have in us and while it is a small lie and not something that is likely to bite us in the butt the fact that it COULD cause trust issues in the future is enough of a reason not to do it. Also, being Catholic, divorce is not an option so if they broke up and she moved on how would we explain another “marriage”?

The situation has become even more complicated! I ended up having a LONG talk with her the other night and she outright said she would not be coming back to the Catholic faith. She accepts the Bible but not the cathecism and has real issues with specific church teachings-like how only Catholics go to heaven, original sin (how can a baby have sin she asks) and the fact that if she does not have a catholic ceremony her family cannot attend and that is not fair. I know that some of her problems stem from Daddy issues-her father kinda rammed religion down everyone’s throat and he puts off at times the idea that he is holier-than-thou KWIM? Anyways, I am so stressed about it because she is family and I believe that the only way to maybe bring her back to the faith is to be an example to her as opposed to turning our backs on her. Her guy is not catholic and I fear that avoiding her and him together will turn him completely off to Catholicism as well. So far our of DH’s family his older sister is still practicing and married a practicing catholic, DH and I are as well, but one other sister married a non-catholic and as far as we know does not go to church anymore, this sister we are discussing and now another sister of his is engaged to a non-catholic who allegedly will not agree to raise his kids catholic and now she is on the fence as to whether or not she will stay catholic! :eek: So that is 3 so far that are not 100% on board. Sorry for the long post, it was a long weekend of conversations and being totally blindsided by additional information:(
 
I agree with many of the posters here (and for the record, i have 4 children from ages 3 to 7, so I can relate to what they might wonder about).

I think the best way that you can have a positive influence on your sister and her boyfriend is to keep them in your life. Living your life as an example - a beacon - for them may someday pay off. I also think that if you chose to cut off communication, you would more likely solidify their stance.

Now, with your own children. What we do when confronted with lifestyles that we don’t want our children to emulate - everything is a chance for us to reaffirm what we believe and why.

A question may pop up -
“Are Aunt K and Bill married?”
“No”
“How can they be living together?”

That might be the kind of conversation my kids would start. I would answer it honestly.

“I believe it would be better if they were married for a lot of reasons - but mainly because God has told us that. But God has also given each of us free will to do anything - even disobey. I wish Aunt K and Bill were married, and I hope they do get married.”

and then I would wait for some kind of response and deal with that.

There are a lot of activities that our kids are exposed to that I do not particularly like - smoking, drinking, swearing, drugs. Some of these are even done by people who the kids respect. But each one is an opportunity for us to talk to them and ask them what they are going to do when confronted with it.

By all means, keep your sister in your life. Pray that you can help her along her journey. If you feel that her lifestyle choices are having an adverse affect on your children - then re-evaluate.
 
shainski said:
I agree with many of the posters here (and for the record, i have 4 children from ages 3 to 7, so I can relate to what they might wonder about).

I think the best way that you can have a positive influence on your sister and her boyfriend is to keep them in your life. Living your life as an example - a beacon - for them may someday pay off. I also think that if you chose to cut off communication, you would more likely solidify their stance.

Now, with your own children. What we do when confronted with lifestyles that we don’t want our children to emulate - everything is a chance for us to reaffirm what we believe and why.

A question may pop up -
“Are Aunt K and Bill married?”
“No”
“How can they be living together?”

That might be the kind of conversation my kids would start. I would answer it honestly.

“I believe it would be better if they were married for a lot of reasons - but mainly because God has told us that. But God has also given each of us free will to do anything - even disobey. I wish Aunt K and Bill were married, and I hope they do get married.”

and then I would wait for some kind of response and deal with that.

There are a lot of activities that our kids are exposed to that I do not particularly like - smoking, drinking, swearing, drugs. Some of these are even done by people who the kids respect. But each one is an opportunity for us to talk to them and ask them what they are going to do when confronted with it.

By all means, keep your sister in your life. Pray that you can help her along her journey. If you feel that her lifestyle choices are having an adverse affect on your children - then re-evaluate.
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Thats a great answer.
 
I really appreciate your answers. My husband is going to sit down and talk to his sister about her situation and explain his concerns etc. and we will go from there. He wants to find some middle ground between going too far with avoiding her and then being so wishy washy that she feels that everyone is okay with her situation. I will pass your suggestions on to my hubby and hopefully this will all get settled soon!
 
I’m glad he is talking to her. I think that is the best way to deal with it is to be loving and honest. The kinds of things that I would want to communicate to her would be:
—that I love her, and want a relationship with her
—that while I disagree with her choices, I respect her right to make them
—that I DO follow the Church faithfully, and that is my fervent belief that I have a responsibility to transmit this faith to my children. This will mean that at times, I might not be able to celebrate everything she celebrates (ie. a housewarming for co-habitation), and it means that I might avoid some situations that I believe will make it more difficult for me to pass on my faith to my children. None of this is about my love for my sister, but instead for my responsibility to my children to raise them with the faith that I have chosen for them.
—that just as I respect her right to make her own choices, I expect that she will respect my right to make MINE.
—that if she would ever like to talk to me about my beliefs, I would be happy to share what I have learned over the years, but that I don’t intend to preach at her, nor do I want to argue about it.

And then, I would leave it at that. Emphasizing your love for her, and your respect for her right to make her own choices, but insist that you are given the same respect. Don’t avoid her at all costs, but don’t be afraid to respectfully decline to attend situations that go against your conscience. Don’t gossip about it, or make judgments to everyone else in the family, but just be an example of a family who quietly follows your own conscience. I would not try to convince her to change her mind right now. Keep a relationship with her, and conversations about the specifics of faith can come later. Better yet, show her an example of Christian love, and perhaps some day she will come around.
 
I have a friend who approaches this situation in this way: she and her late husband would invite the couple to their home and explain to them that they will not attend functions in THEIR home until they are married. They would explain that it is not that they do not love them but it is because they do love them and that they do not want to expose their children to the situation. Their children were taught to address adults as ‘sir’ or ‘ma’am’, Miss, Mrs. or Mr.

If there was a birthday party at a public place, they would attend and treat the bf or gf as just that - a bf or gf…their children would address the person as Mr. Whoever or Miss SusieQ.

They would also add to the couple, “How can we help you two achieve your goal of being a happy family?”.

I always admired that approach - I have never had the guts to do that with my brother who has lived in sin with two different women since he walked out on his wife over ten years ago. Both of those women, btw, were described to me as his ‘soul mate’.

:rolleyes:
 
I lived with my now husband before we were married. We lived together for 2 years. (We have been married for 21 years.)

When we were living together, and we went to my parent’s house, we did not spend the night together. We slept in different rooms. When we went to my Aunt’s house, same thing. I never mentioned it, we just, out of respect for my parents and Aunt, slept apart. 🤷

Recently, my nephew mentioned bringing his live in girl friend to my house and staying for a long weekend. We welcome them as visitors, but like us, they will sleep apart. No, I don’t hold to the, “well you did it too.” I have no problem knowing I sinned and repented, and holding others to higher standards then I met.

I think you and your husband should be straight forward. No, your children can’t spend the night at her house, if she has a boyfriend living there. Yes, you will attend functions with her, but located somewhere other than her house. Just lay it all out.
 
Please talk to a priest. I see pretty often on this site that you shouldn’t attend invalid weddings, that you shouldn’t go to the home of a cohabiting couple, that you should constantly make your disapproval known. CAF actually struck quite a bit of fear in to my heart regarding my own wedding. But not once has anyone in my or my fiance’s family been encouraged by their clergyman (protestant or catholic) to respond with a cold shoulder.

I am getting ready to marry a man who was baptized catholic but rejected the faith and now identifies as an atheist in a secular wedding. His extremely catholic family has been encouraged to be as loving and supportive as possible. His cloistered nun sister is even writing a speech to be read at our reception. Her mother superior and priest encouraged this and even helped her write it.

We frequently host both of our families overnight in the townhouse that we share. We go to family functions together, we are welcomed at special occasions and we know that if anything ever happens we have family to lean on.

If they shunned us, refused to attend our child’s birthday party (we don’t have kids), and didn’t want us in their home or around at holidays, not only would it be clear that those people were not the type we would want associated with our new family (even if we some day converted we wouldn’t want them around us or our kids), but it would make it almost impossible for us to ever trust or feel comfortable around catholics.

And for the record it was made clear that they don’t like the cohabitation or secular wedding, but that they respect us and the decisions we are making for our family. (And they really appreciate that we were upfront about it). But differences can always be overcome with time and understanding. They can never be overcome if the love and communication has been turned off.
 
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