Family fees at school - is there a better way?

[Onestepahead]

Many flat fees are charged to us, regardless of the number of kids we have in school. For instance, there’s a $250 “family fee” that we have to pay in addition to tuition, and its the same for each family, no matter how many kids. Then there’s the $80 fee that’s due for Family Faith Formation, no matter how many kids are enrolled from a particular family. Summer week-long bible camp was $40 for the first child and $5 each for any additional child from a family. And the list goes on and on.

Yes, I understand that some families wouldn’t be willing/able to participate if they had to pay hefty fees for every child, but it’s not right that parents of single children to have to pay the most each and ever time. There are several large families at school who have hefty incomes – I think it’s inaccurate to think that parents of multiple kids are always stretched thin and parents of single kids have lots of extra money. I also understand that there’s almost always tuition assistance available, and if a family sticks around long enough, they may eventually have only one child in school. My question is this – does anyone have any suggestions for a pricing schedule that’s more equitable than $40 for the first child and $5 each for any others?

 

[1ke]

I don’t think we can answer your question. We don’t know what that money pays for, what the parish kicks in to subsidize (if anything), etc. there are many factors. I suggest you talk to the pastor and the finance council and see what the expenses are, what the revenue is, and how you can come up with a more equitable solution.

In my parish religious education is free, we don’t charge.

 

[Onestepahead]

Thank you for your reply, 1ke. I was hoping that others would chime in to say how their schools/parishes price things such as summer bible camp or religious ed. That’s the kind of information I’d like to have before I approach anyone. One of my best managers taught us to never approach management with a problem without also bringing along a few possible ideas for solutions.

No, we don’t know the exact break-down of the reason something was priced that way, but just like when you go to the shoe store and get a buy-one-pair-and-get-one-free deal, you know that the price of the first pair is calculated to cover the value of BOTH pairs. The owners of the store are not giving away shoes.

I tried working some numbers using my considerable math skills (cough, cough). If a single child enrolls in my parish summer bible camp beginning in 1st grade and attends for 4 years at $40 a year, it’ll cost a total of $160.00 per child.

If a family with 3 children enrolls their oldest child that same year and the other two children successively over the next 2 years (following the pricing of $40 for the first child and $5 each for any other child), in that same four-year period, the family will spend a grand total of $185.00, or $62 per child.

If all 3 children attend for all 4 years each, the grand total paid by the family will be $270.00, or $90 per child.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It may be that there are administrative costs that are actually incurred per family, or that the parish has a licensing agreement for materials that charges per family enrolled, not per child enrolled.
You really need to get the price breakdown from the parish to find out what the rationale is for doing it this way, before you can make any meaningful argument. If the licensing fee is the big cost and the licensor charges per family then there’s not much the parish can do about it.

 

[1ke]

I’ve been working with parishes and the diocese for many years, and you are giving them entirely too much credit on any sort of mathematical formula you’ve tried to come up with. Keep in mind, the church doesn’t really run like a business, and you can only take that logic so far. Trust me on that. I work full time in business and I volunteer extensively with the church, and their non-business sense drives me bonkers, regularly.

I really suggest you ask your pastor and finance council or your religious education director for a breakdown of costs and what they collect from fees and what the parish kicks in.

And then you can suggest alternate ways to go about things depending on what you find. If you find they are paying summer camp staff, then work on a plan to have all volunteer staff. If it’s books, supplies, etc, look at fundraisers.

I don’t think you can come up with alternatives until you know the facts.

 

[jlc2k2]

It’s a tough balance. My parish charges per child with RE items and it adds up incredibly fast. There’s a discount for homeschooling or for being a catechist. This year I’m paying almost $100 to do the homeschool RE for my 3 big kids (2nd grade and 2 kindergartners).

Out of curiosity, I ran the numbers for when our 4 kids are older. Our most expensive year will be the year the twins are confirmed. Assuming we don’t have more kids that would be kindergarten aged in the next 10 years, I’ll have 3 in the teen program that I don’t intend to homeschool for, 2 in additional sacramental prep, and 1 elementary home school. Also assuming costs don’t change in the next 10 years, I’m looking at paying just over $500 for that year alone.

Fortunately, we are currently in a position where that is doable if we plan ahead but that’s not going to work for everyone.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

A per-family fee makes a lot of sense for the parish. The average American family is 2.3 kids, so the parish can reasonably expect that size. They budget off of that. Adding additional kids is really part of “doing business”. Those with smaller families than two might get the shorter end of the stick.
That said, what is “fair”? There has to be a set amount to begin with. Dividing by child is only going to create a situation where large families are priced out.
You’re operating on the basis that those with more children are getting a better bargain than you. Which is rather greedy to me. If everyone had one child regardless of the policy, would you really care?
I feel this situation is like the parable of the workers in the field. The ones who came in the morning agreed to a price, then those who came at noon, then those who came late in the afternoon. When the morning guys saw the newcomers getting the same amount they lost their minds. It seems like you are doing much the same. You are calling something unfair based on what someone else is getting…not because it’s really affecting you. (If it was, you could talk to the priest about a scholarship).

 

[1ke]

I wish more parishes would make an effort to provide religious education free of charge to all families. We have been doing this for 10 years now and it’s wonderful.

 

[Onestepahead]

No, Xanthippe, it’s not like the parable of the workers in the vineyard at all. It would only be similar if the vineyard owner informed the early-morning workers up front that anyone who worked that day would be paid a full-day’s wage no matter how many hours they worked.

Furthermore, you’re wrong on the mortal sin involved. It’s not greed, it’s jealousy. That is, if I can’t have the cheaper price for tuition, family fees, religious ed, summer bible camp, swimming lessons, whatever ad infinitum, I don’t want ANYONE to have it.

And 1ke, just a thought: in terms of fairness (which is why I cranked open this can of worms to begin with), providing free religious ed to all families would be the most “unfair” of all, since the cost would then be borne by the entire congregation, including childless oldsters on fixed incomes and singles who’ve never had children.

OK, ok, I’ve flogged this dead horse quite enough. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

 

[1ke]

And 1ke, just a thought: in terms of fairness (which is why I cranked open this can of worms to begin with), providing free religious ed to all families would be the most “unfair” of all, since the cost would then be borne by the entire congregation, including childless oldsters on fixed incomes and singles who’ve never had children.

It’s not about fairness. It’s about evangelization. A mission the entire church is called to accomplish.

p.s. My husband and I don’t have children.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

And they pay the full price for the first child no matter how many children they have. (and a token fee for more in some situations). For faith formation, they all owe $80 no matter how many they bring to the party, although it’s payment and not pay received.

I never said that it was a mortal sin, which I don’t think it is at all. It’s not a serious situation (unless you do something that causes those with more kids to have fewer kids). Greed and Jealousy go hand and hand. Greed is the selfish desire for something more…in this case, more money. Jealousy is also applicable. I’m sure we could find more sins if we tried.

As others pointed out, we should strive as a parish community to make evangelization–of children, youth and adults–free. We never want to give the impression that we charge for sacraments.

Personally, I do like the idea of a household fee rather than a per-person one. In my dirt-poor single years, this would have been much harder than now, financially speaking. That said, it does recognize the sanctity of marriage and the two becoming one flesh. As a parent, it also takes away any disincentive I would have to keep my children at home because I could not afford hundreds of dollars in fees.

Currently, my parish doesn’t charge for regular CCD but does for special programs like VBS–mostly because they purchase a curriculum kit, snacks and many extras that they don’t have in CCD.

Also, we should assume the best of our neighbor’s charitable giving. Those with big incomes should be assumed to be great givers unless we know otherwise. The small fees associated with parish events should be considered as a token amount that keeps people serious about attending something that extra money is spent on.

 

[TC3033]

Where my wife and kids are members, we pay for RE per child ($125 this year). With two kids it cost us $250 for Family Faith Formation this year…Don’t get us started on that, there’s quite a few parents that are wondering (and upset) why costs for RE went up but now we (in our case my wife) are the ones that need to do it (and the church is saving money on busing, snacks, etc…). We’re skeptical about this program, at best.

Sacrement years cost more here too. For example, last year was first communion for our oldest. That year cost us $175 for him, so $300 for the two kids last year. As of right now, confirmation year is slated for $300. At that point we’ll have 3 kids in RE, so that year will cost us (at this years rates) will be $550.

 

[1ke]

Where my wife and kids are members, we pay for RE per child ($125 this year). With two kids it cost us $250 for Family Faith Formation this year…Don’t get us started on that, there’s quite a few parents that are wondering (and upset) why costs for RE went up but now we (in our case my wife) are the ones that need to do it (and the church is saving money on busing, snacks, etc…). We’re skeptical about this program, at best.

Sacrement years cost more here too. For example, last year was first communion for our oldest. That year cost us $175 for him, so $300 for the two kids last year. As of right now, confirmation year is slated for $300. At that point we’ll have 3 kids in RE, so that year will cost us (at this years rates) will be $550.

That is truly unfortunate. These sorts of posts make me very sad.

I hope that you can have a productive discussion with your pastor regarding the budget for religious education and why it has become so costly and how you can get those costs under control to provide a free or very low cost religious education program.

 

[TC3033]

That is truly unfortunate. These sorts of posts make me very sad.

I hope that you can have a productive discussion with your pastor regarding the budget for religious education and why it has become so costly and how you can get those costs under control to provide a free or very low cost religious education program.

I don’t know that anyone every really thought about why the cost was so high until this year. In the past we just figured we were paying for the convenience of it all. They used to bus the public school kids over after school, give them a short play break and snack before class. After class there is always a meal with free will donation.

Now with Family Faith Formation, that’s all gone now (outside of the meal since they still have the older kids coming in for their evening class).

For the most part, they kind of have a monopoly. They’re the only Parish in our town of almost 7,000 people. We decided to give the new program (and the high cost) a year. If we don’t like the direction my wife and kids are looking at switching back out to her home Parish in the country 10-15 min away. Out there it’s only $70-$80 a kid. Downside is it’s early in the morning on Sunday.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

That seems to border on usury. Have you spoken to your priest to see if there is any way to defray the cost. That’s crazy.

 

[1ke]

I don’t know that anyone every really thought about why the cost was so high until this year. In the past we just figured we were paying for the convenience of it all.

Certainly buses cost money, but now that isn’t even a factor anymore.

What program materials does the parish use? A book, handouts? Do you know the name of it?

We don’t use consumables. We use a book that is a classroom set. When we purchased new books I wrote a grant for some of it and the ladies’ society kicked in money. Either the ladies, the parish, or some grant money (I’ve written grants for books, DVDs, etc) pay for everything. Parents haven’t paid a fee in 10 years.

I coordinate RE as a volunteer and all catechists are volunteer.

 

[TC3033]

TC3033:

I don’t know that anyone every really thought about why the cost was so high until this year. In the past we just figured we were paying for the convenience of it all.

Certainly buses cost money, but now that isn’t even a factor anymore.

What program materials does the parish use? A book, handouts? Do you know the name of it?

We don’t use consumables. We use a book that is a classroom set. When we purchased new books I wrote a grant for some of it and the ladies’ society kicked in money. Either the ladies, the parish, or some grant money (I’ve written grants for books, DVDs, etc) pay for everything. Parents haven’t paid a fee in 10 years.

I coordinate RE as a volunteer and all catechists are volunteer.

From what I can tell, the program is the one their going with in the link below.

Shop - Sophia Teachers

 

[pianistclare]

In our former parish, the priest was quite frank that the tuition helps to pay for the books, the rental of the CAtholic school for the classrooms and the DRE’s salary.
For PSR it is $70 per student and goes down per additional child, $75 for EDGE, and $100 for LifeTeen. No Sacramental fees at all.

In my current parish (new full time job, not a DRE anymore) the DRE makes far less $$$, but uses the same books, does not subscribe to LT curriculums, and relies on volunteers. However, I have to say, no one is making sure the catechists are certified, offering continuing ed for them, or watching terribly closely. For ex, the children who need the Sacrament of initiation are just tossed in the regular classes. He’s a nice guy but overwhelmed.
You get what you pay for sometimes.

 

[1ke]

From what I can tell, the program is the one their going with in the link below.

Well that raises more questions than it answers regarding the $$ you are paying! The parent book is probably $13 (I assume the parish is ordering more than 10). Volume 1 seems to cover years 1 and 2. Volume 2 covers years 3 and 4. So at most that’s $26 over 4 years. The kid book is the same. Vol 1 and Vol 2 should last 4 years per kid @ $13/book or $26/kid. Leader Guides are also Vol 1 and Vol 2 format as well, so $26 per catechist, and I would think the parish should cover that.

The Parent and Leader books should be checked out and returned and are reusable. The only consumable I see is the kid books.

I don’t get why you’d be paying over $100 a year!

 

[TC3033]

TC3033:

From what I can tell, the program is the one their going with in the link below.

Well that raises more questions than it answers regarding the $$ you are paying! The parent book is probably $13 (I assume the parish is ordering more than 10). Volume 1 seems to cover years 1 and 2. Volume 2 covers years 3 and 4. So at most that’s $26 over 4 years. The kid book is the same. Vol 1 and Vol 2 should last 4 years per kid @ $13/book or $26/kid. Leader Guides are also Vol 1 and Vol 2 format as well, so $26 per catechist, and I would think the parish should cover that.

The Parent and Leader books should be checked out and returned and are reusable. The only consumable I see is the kid books.

I don’t get why you’d be paying over $100 a year!

Ya, we have no idea. Our first meeting regarding this at all is tomorrow night. I think there may be some questions about where the money goes, especially with the raise in price and cutting busing, snacks, etc… I know when the change was announced there were some pretty upset parents.