"Family Life" in 4th grade?

[Joe_5859]

I’m with Corki. I’m not a fan of this series from Benziger. Those are not the materials I would choose to use.

My daughter is 7 right now. I cannot imagine having these conversations with her in just two years.

I’m a firm believer that the parents have the primary responsibility to approach this subject with their children. I think the ideal would be to not teach this at all in school. But, of course, many parents would not necessarily step up and so many kids would end up only learning about these matters from TV or their peers – which would be worse.

 

[Ophelia23]

I don’t think 9 or 10 is too young for this type of material whatsoever. Further, the excerpts you provided show a deep respect for human life, which is something we should instill into our children from a very young age.

 

[mommamaree]

I am surprised that several posters mentioned avoiding discussion of intercourse. My experience was that the moment the topic of pregnancy and babies and differences between boys and girls came up, the first question was “but how does it get there?”

I thought that was a perfectly normal question when my oldest asked it, so I answered her honestly. I had already drawn a simple picture of the womb with a baby and the birth canal, because she had asked about how the baby comes out “down there”, so I simply pointed out the vagina (she had already known that word for years, because we always use the formal language for private parts, as a way to teach about taking care of oneself). I told her of a special embrace between husband and wife called sexual intercourse where his body fits together with hers and that is how the sperm gets to her womb. I named the body parts involved. I explained it is an act of love reserved for marriage. When it dawned on her what I was saying, she laughed and I did, too. She said it sounds funny and I told her that everyone pretty much has that same reaction when they first learn about it. That was over a year ago now. I don’t think I did anything wrong by answering her question; at least, I hope I didn’t.

 

[Xantippe]

Mommamaree,

I’m sure you’ve done fine.

My particular 11-year-old is totally squicked out by even just the cute American Girl book on puberty, so we’ve been taking it slowly. Skin gets bad, the body starts smelling funny, bleeding starts, extra undergarments become necessary, hair starts sprouting all over as if in some sort of werewolf transformation–I suppose objectively, that does sound terrible! It was all I could do to get her to sit through a couple of page throughs of the American Girl book. She says, “I don’t want to grow up!”

 

[Joe_5859]

I am surprised that several posters mentioned avoiding discussion of intercourse. My experience was that the moment the topic of pregnancy and babies and differences between boys and girls came up, the first question was “but how does it get there?”

I thought that was a perfectly normal question when my oldest asked it, so I answered her honestly. I had already drawn a simple picture of the womb with a baby and the birth canal, because she had asked about how the baby comes out “down there”, so I simply pointed out the vagina (she had already known that word for years, because we always use the formal language for private parts, as a way to teach about taking care of oneself). I told her of a special embrace between husband and wife called sexual intercourse where his body fits together with hers and that is how the sperm gets to her womb. I named the body parts involved. I explained it is an act of love reserved for marriage. When it dawned on her what I was saying, she laughed and I did, too. She said it sounds funny and I told her that everyone pretty much has that same reaction when they first learn about it. That was over a year ago now. I don’t think I did anything wrong by answering her question; at least, I hope I didn’t.

I think that’s exactly the context this type of discussion should take place in: the parent responding to a question from the child.

I’m going to have to learn to be less squeamish about it. My daughter refers to the whole “under-region” of both boys and girls as the “butt” and I never felt the desire to correct her. Of course, my parents attempt at “the talk” was leaving an old book from 1971 on my bed one day. I was either a Senior in high school or maybe even in college by that point. We had gone through all this “family life” stuff in 5th grade. A little late, Mom!

 

[Corki]

Can you explain more as to what you would be worried about here? It’s simple biological facts without details about intercourse. That sounds age appropriate.

See the document Bookcat referenced in post #5, particularly the section beginning with paragraph 78. Prior to puberty, which is rarely reached at age 9 , introduction of those “biological facts” is mostly likely not age appropriate. In the rare case where a child is ready, it should be presented in an individualized manner (one-on-one) and preferably by a parent, not in a classroom setting and **most definitely not **in a co-ed setting (which is an offense against modesty).

 

[Xantippe]

Joe5859 said:

“Of course, my parents attempt at “the talk” was leaving an old book from 1971 on my bed one day. I was either a Senior in high school or maybe even in college by that point.”

Thread winner!

I got a Dr. Dobson book with a sunset on the cover from my Protestant mom at some point (6th grade?). It was actually a pretty good book on being a teenager, but handing over a book like that with no discussion is a parenting fail. The one thing I have to chide Dr. Dobson for in that book is that he explains that sex causes a “pleasant tingling sensation” (or some such phrasing). I understand why he didn’t say anything more enthusiastic in a book aimed at adolescents, but still…

Come to think of it, we might have even gotten the same book. As I recall, the one I had was pretty antique by the time I got it–no doubt passed on carefully from one embarrassed Protestant parent to the next.

 

[SpidersfromMars]

I know of a family member that started menstruating at 9.

My mum had a friend who started at 8. And another who started at 16. So the two extremes I guess.

Apparently children are reaching puberty earlier these days, due to better diet, etc than what many of their ancestors had. For this reason I think they probably do need to know about those changes in their body by 4th grade if not before. I can’t imagine anything more terrifying than getting a period and not knowing what is.

 

[Joe_5859]

Joe5859 said:

“Of course, my parents attempt at “the talk” was leaving an old book from 1971 on my bed one day. I was either a Senior in high school or maybe even in college by that point.”

Thread winner!

I got a Dr. Dobson book with a sunset on the cover from my Protestant mom at some point (6th grade?). It was actually a pretty good book on being a teenager, but handing over a book like that with no discussion is a parenting fail. The one thing I have to chide Dr. Dobson for in that book is that he explains that sex causes a “pleasant tingling sensation” (or some such phrasing). I understand why he didn’t say anything more enthusiastic in a book aimed at adolescents, but still…

Come to think of it, we might have even gotten the same book. As I recall, the one I had was pretty antique by the time I got it–no doubt passed on carefully from one embarrassed Protestant parent to the next.

No, mine wasn’t by Dr. Dobson. I don’t think my Mom reviewed it very carefully because – even though it was published pre- Roe v. Wade – it actually spoke favorably about abortion. I know my Mom is definitely not pro-choice. I didn’t have the heart to tell her the book wasn’t even good at what it was supposed to be doing.

Come to think of it, I had to be in college by that point. I’m pretty sure it was after my conversion experience because I noticed those deficiencies in the book. It was probably the summer after my sophomore year of college, which would have made me 20 years old.

 

[laircy]

I don’t think it’s too young. Heck, my mom gave me a book called “How Babies Are Made” when I was 3 and a half years old when she became pregnant with my brother. She explained it to me. I was too young to get weirded out. It was a fact of life.

And as a result, I’ve always associated sex with babies, never buying into the cultural lie of completely separating the two because “obviously babies are what it’s for!”

 

[Lorelei12]

I am surprised that several posters mentioned avoiding discussion of intercourse. My experience was that the moment the topic of pregnancy and babies and differences between boys and girls came up, the first question was “but how does it get there?”

I thought that was a perfectly normal question when my oldest asked it, so I answered her honestly. I had already drawn a simple picture of the womb with a baby and the birth canal, because she had asked about how the baby comes out “down there”, so I simply pointed out the vagina (she had already known that word for years, because we always use the formal language for private parts, as a way to teach about taking care of oneself). I told her of a special embrace between husband and wife called sexual intercourse where his body fits together with hers and that is how the sperm gets to her womb. I named the body parts involved. I explained it is an act of love reserved for marriage. When it dawned on her what I was saying, she laughed and I did, too. She said it sounds funny and I told her that everyone pretty much has that same reaction when they first learn about it. That was over a year ago now. I don’t think I did anything wrong by answering her question; at least, I hope I didn’t.

I hope that I am able to handle the subject as gracefully and appropriately as you have! It does seem logical that questions of “how it gets there” would follow from a discussion about an egg and sperm. I also like what you said in a previous post, about “protecting their innocence, but not keeping them ignorant”. There has to be some kind of balance, and it appears that you have been able to find a good way to approach the issue.

OP, I do not think anything you described sounds inappropriate for your daughter’s age. In fact it sounds like exactly what I will want my children to know at that point in time. I don’t really think a child’s innocence is “lost” simply because he or she understands the way the human body functions. Perhaps I feel this way because of my own upbringing, which involved one single “talk” and nothing about it ever again. No discussions about dating, appropriate affection while dating, self-respect, chastity, purity, nothing. All I got was a very brief biology lesson and was left with the impression that sex was some kind of necessary evil if you wanted children, not something to be enjoyed in the proper context. I very much doubt that it was my mother’s intention for me to feel that way, but that’s how I took it because I was made to feel as though it wasn’t something natural and normal, that it was a big secret that you’d figure out when you were married and any further discussion or questions were inappropriate. This was damaging to me, since I had nowhere to go and no one to talk to except for my friends.

I think trying to put so much emphasis on a child’s “innocence” can sometimes come at the expense of the “ignorance” that mommamaree wrote of. I’d rather that my kids are equipped with a healthy understanding of sexuality and married love, rather than hoping that the less they know, the less they’ll do. I don’t think that works.

 

[Cat]

Joe5859 said:

“Of course, my parents attempt at “the talk” was leaving an old book from 1971 on my bed one day. I was either a Senior in high school or maybe even in college by that point.”

Thread winner!

I got a Dr. Dobson book with a sunset on the cover from my Protestant mom at some point (6th grade?). It was actually a pretty good book on being a teenager, but handing over a book like that with no discussion is a parenting fail. The one thing I have to chide Dr. Dobson for in that book is that he explains that sex causes a “pleasant tingling sensation” (or some such phrasing). I understand why he didn’t say anything more enthusiastic in a book aimed at adolescents, but still…

Come to think of it, we might have even gotten the same book. As I recall, the one I had was pretty antique by the time I got it–no doubt passed on carefully from one embarrassed Protestant parent to the next.

Just want to make it clear that Dr. James Dobson does not advocate handing kids a book about sex.

He suggests that before a child reaches puberty, the parent of the same sex (mom for daughters, dad for sons) or a trusted stand-in (uncle/aunt, grandparent, etc.) should take the child on a special “growing up” weekend, and along with fun activities, hotel stay or camping out (or whatever), the parent will spend the weekend describing what will be happening to the child over the next few years and preparing the child to face all these changes with a positive attitude and a sense of wonder over God’s amazing creation of the human body and sexuality.

I think it’s a good plan, although I don’t think it would work nowadays as so many families and children spend so much time online with iphones and other computers that I think this kind of intense one-on-one verbal communication weekend would be uncomfortable for both parent and child.

I also think that for some reason, many many children, especially boys, are being diagnosed on the autism spectrum, and would be incapable of sitting and chatting with their parents one-on-one about sex and their bodies. My oldest nephew is 11, old enough for this “growing up weekend,” but he has been diagnosed with Aspberger’s, and I frankly cannot imagine his father (whom he fears and distrusts) sitting down with him and discussing “man subjects.” The boy’s only interest seems to be video games, and he has screaming crying tantrums when he is not able to play these games. I know quite a few children who have the same traits–again, I can’t imagine a parent taking a child like this away for a weekend and just talking.

Times have changed so much since Dr. Dobson wrote that suggestion back in the 1970s and 1980s. I haven’t kept up with Dobson’s radio program (although I know his organization is one of the ones who has a lawsuit pending regarding Obamacare and the contraception requirements of the insurance plans). I don’t know if Dr. Dobson has a new suggestion for parents to explain puberty.

We never did Dr. Dobson’s “weekend away” because we “gradually” taught our daughters about their bodies and sex as they grew up, and there was never a time when they had one big presentation.

I agree with others on this thread that the presentation that the described by the OP sounds age-appropriate. In the hospital where I work, we see 10-year old girls giving birth. Girls are undergoing puberty much earlier now, and even at age 8 and 9, girls’ bodies are beginning to change, and girls are aware of this and it concerns and sometimes frightens them. Knowledge is a good thing when it comes to our bodies.

Also, I think that knowledge of sex can help a child to filter all the massive amount of sexual material that somehow comes into their lives. Even in the strictest of homes, where parents do not allow their children to have any contact with any media other than the ancient translations of the Bible, kids somehow, inexplicably, get exposed to sexual things. It’s mind-boggling.

I think that the OP’s daughter probably already knows all about sex and the “mechanics” and she learned all about it (probably with inaccuracies!) from her peers. Kids know about sex at very young ages nowadays, and it’s hard to figure out exactly how they learn so much so early. The only way we can prevent this from happening is to never, ever allow our children to associate with any other children, even their own siblings! Obviously that’s not realistic.

 

[Ophelia23]

I do agree that these conversations should take place with the parent and child rather than in a classroom setting, though… And personally, I am of the opinion that children should learn about human dignity and intimacy throughout their lives by witnessing their parents. I don’t mean that they should witness the act itself, of course, but gradually throughout their lives we can introduce them to these ideas at age appropriate levels. For instance, my daughter will soon be 4. She knows that a baby is a human life from the very beginning, and she knows that a baby is created with both a husband and a wife, not just the mommy. I just remember my mom talking to us about sex and sexuality off and on throughout our lives as opposed to having “the talk”.

 

[Corki]

I don’t think it’s too young. Heck, my mom gave me a book called “How Babies Are Made” when I was 3 and a half years old when she became pregnant with my brother. She explained it to me. I was too young to get weirded out. It was a fact of life.

And as a result, I’ve always associated sex with babies, never buying into the cultural lie of completely separating the two because “obviously babies are what it’s for!”

The thing is that “too young” for a parent to have a loving conversation with their own child is a very different concept than “too young” for a child to get this information from a stranger in a room that is far removed from home.

The document linked in post 5 specifically says that the most ideal way to start the conversation is when a family is expecting a new child. That’s a wonderful context for the discussion - a context that doesn’t exist in the classroom.

 

[Fusiontron]

Advice to the OP: Your kids will find out sooner or later about these sorts of things, probably from their friends. You need to approach them on your own, early and often. My parents refused to talk to me about sexual health at all. I ended up with a highly distorted view as I got information from my peers. This distorted view of human sexuality caused me great anxiety for years. I am now 22 and only in the past 3-4 years have I become OK again. You should tell your children the correct and truthful teachings on human sexuality before their friends go and mess up their brains.

 

[Xantippe]

Cat,

It was actually a really good book. I’m almost wondering if I can track down a copy, as the stuff on the emotional life of the teenager was pretty good.

Unfortunately, my mom’s only commentary on it was to mention, “Dr. Dobson says that there is disagreement about whether or not masturbation is wrong. We’re against it.” Me (in my head): What’s masturbation?

“My oldest nephew is 11, old enough for this “growing up weekend,” but he has been diagnosed with Aspberger’s, and I frankly cannot imagine his father (whom he fears and distrusts) sitting down with him and discussing “man subjects.””

I read a secular blogger (oilf.blogspot.com) with a fairly autistic teenage son, and she’s shelved the idea of sex education for her son at the moment, as he’s very mischievous, and she thinks it would just give him new ways of getting into trouble at school.

“Times have changed so much since Dr. Dobson wrote that suggestion back in the 1970s and 1980s.”

I heard about an updated version from a Protestant neighbor a few years back. They had some sort of audiobook and she and her daughter were going to take a long road trip together and listen to the book on the way. That sounds like a pretty good idea, actually.

But, as you say, first you’d need to unplug their iPods, video players, and other electronics.

“Also, I think that knowledge of sex can help a child to filter all the massive amount of sexual material that somehow comes into their lives.”

Yes! And to help them figure out what unsavory older children or adults are up to.

Looking back, I’m realizing that one of the deficiencies of my public health sex education was that it was all anatomy and diseases, and pretty nothing at all about the legal dimensions of sex (age of consent, rape, statutory rape, etc.). And there was nothing about consent and the various issues caused by the proximity of alcohol and sex. I think that that’s an area where things may actually be improving a lot, or are about to improve a lot.

 

[Corki]

Advice to the OP: Your kids will find out sooner or later about these sorts of things, probably from their friends. You need to approach them on your own, early and often.

This is exactly opposite of what the Church teaches about a parent’s duty regarding teaching human sexuality to our children.

My parents refused to talk to me about sexual health at all. I ended up with a highly distorted view as I got information from my peers. This distorted view of human sexuality caused me great anxiety for years. I am now 22 and only in the past 3-4 years have I become OK again. You should tell your children the correct and truthful teachings on human sexuality before their friends go and mess up their brains

I am sorry for your bad experience. But your experience doesn’t mean that schools or parents are justified in their attempts to force sexual topics and sexualization on younger and younger children.

 

[Fusiontron]

This is exactly opposite of what the Church teaches about a parent’s duty regarding teaching human sexuality to our children.

I am sorry for your bad experience. But your experience doesn’t mean that schools or parents are justified in their attempts to force sexual topics and sexualization on younger and younger children.

If the children are old enough to ask, they are old to know. I should have made that qualification in my statement. I routinely asked and was given a hand waving explanation. Eventually, I asked my friends and was told a variety of messed up and incorrect things. If you look in the thread there are several cases of people refusing to answer their children’s questions. If the child doesn’t ask, then no I agree don’t just tell them whatever. And only answer the question very specifically, don’t add more details than needed.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

This is exactly opposite of what the Church teaches about a parent’s duty regarding teaching human sexuality to our children.

It is?

The statement, again, was: “You need to approach them on your own, early and often.”

The exact opposite of that would be something like: “don’t approach them on your own, ever”?

That’s what the Church teaches?

I am sorry for your bad experience. But your experience doesn’t mean that schools or parents are justified in their attempts to force sexual topics and sexualization on younger and younger children.

Wait, what? They’re not handing out condoms and showing them how to put one on, or discussing the pro’s and con’s of masturbation. We’re only talking about super-duper basic biological facts, and they’re all being taught from a Catholic perspective. E.g., sperm and egg, life begins at conception, etc.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Yip. Misinformed

Not sure what posting my join date is supposed to prove.