"Family Life" in 4th grade?

[VeritasLuxMea]

Corki, I missed you previously reply to my post. I read the link over and I understand you a bit more now so I’ll have to get back to you on that.

 

[Corki]

I saw your post about getting back to me but I wanted to respond in case someone else was following along with this post.

It is?

The statement, again, was: “You need to approach them on your own, early and often.”

That’s only part of the statement I was referring to. The entire was:

Your kids will find out sooner or later about these sorts of things, probably from their friends. You need to approach them on your own, early and often.

And, yes, the Church teaches that we shouldn’t allow popular trends to override parental responsibility.

The exact opposite of that would be something like: “don’t approach them on your own, ever”?

The opposite of “sooner” is “later,” not “never”. The opposite of “approach it on your own” is “use Church teaching to guide you”. The Church’s teaching is that we as parents should not force sexual information on our children until we, as only their parents can, are assured that they are ready - physically, emotionally, psychologically and spiritually. The Church also teaches that protecting the innocence of our children is a grave parental responsibility. So, earlier is not better.

That’s what the Church teaches?

Yes.

Wait, what? They’re not handing out condoms and showing them how to put one on, or discussing the pro’s and con’s of masturbation. We’re only talking about super-duper basic biological facts, and they’re all being taught from a Catholic perspective. E.g., sperm and egg, life begins at conception, etc

These biological facts may or may not be appropriate for a 9 year old and that’s why it’s best left to the parents to cover this. Some 9 year olds are quite mature while others are less so. For those in the latter category, conversations of sperm and egg will be confusing at best. Others will react differently. One of my sons was subjected to this at a school (without parental notification as it wasn’t in the US) in the 4th grade. His reaction was complete mortification and anger at the teachers for putting him in such an embarrassing situation He never had respect for them again as he considered them to have acted in a cruel and immoral manner. And he was, at least partly, right. The pictures they used would be considered child pornography in any other context.

The better Catholic family life programs cover the spiritual and interpersonal aspects in class (respect for life, respect for their own bodies, respect for others, the importance of family, etc.) and provide materials to help the parents cover the biology at home at a time and place deemed best by the parents who know the child the best.

 

[Fusiontron]

I saw your post about getting back to me but I wanted to respond in case someone else was following along with this post.

That’s only part of the statement I was referring to. The entire was:

And, yes, the Church teaches that we shouldn’t allow popular trends to override parental responsibility.

The opposite of “sooner” is “later,” not “never”. The opposite of “approach it on your own” is “use Church teaching to guide you”. The Church’s teaching is that we as parents should not force sexual information on our children until we, as only their parents can, are assured that they are ready - physically, emotionally, psychologically and spiritually. The Church also teaches that protecting the innocence of our children is a grave parental responsibility. So, earlier is not better.

Yes.

These biological facts may or may not be appropriate for a 9 year old and that’s why it’s best left to the parents to cover this. Some 9 year olds are quite mature while others are less so. For those in the latter category, conversations of sperm and egg will be confusing at best. Others will react differently. One of my sons was subjected to this at a school (without parental notification as it wasn’t in the US) in the 4th grade. His reaction was complete mortification and anger at the teachers for putting him in such an embarrassing situation He never had respect for them again as he considered them to have acted in a cruel and immoral manner. And he was, at least partly, right. The pictures they used would be considered child pornography in any other context.

The better Catholic family life programs cover the spiritual and interpersonal aspects in class (respect for life, respect for their own bodies, respect for others, the importance of family, etc.) and provide materials to help the parents cover the biology at home at a time and place deemed best by the parents who know the child the best.

Well, now that you elaborated on your views, I would say that I agree with you. Sometimes I allow my personal experience with this topic to influence how others should act.

 

[Iheartcoffee]

If it is still like the Family Life classes I had in about 4th and 5th grade, it was handled in a way that allowed for a lot of parent discussions with children. This was a while back, they certainly could have changed the content since then, but I assume it is roughly the same. I still remember the whole chapter on menstruation and how I was required to read it with a female family member and discuss it. My mom was busy that day so I read it with my grandmother and I remember my grandmother commenting that she thought this was a much better way to teach it than many of the other programs that don’t require family discussions. Looking back, I feel like those discussions were handled appropriately with those books. There are tweens and teens that get into trouble sometimes because they are too naieve and they end up being talked into things or they believe things that aren’t true because there was never a good discussion about the truth at home.

To be honest, if your child grew up on a farm he or she would probably learn that kind of information VERY early just by raising animals. I had questions as a very young child when I ran to her to my mom to tell her some animals were “fighting”. My mom explained it to me somewhat (in an age appropriate way for the age I was) because she felt it was wrong to lie about it and I would probably figure it out once the baby animals start showing up. She also explained the difference between fertilized and unfertilized chicken eggs because I was worried about eating baby chickens and she didn’t want me to worry about that. I knew how cattle were artificially inseminated and I was told why. Kids do have innocent and valid questions about these things if you raise animals or live in an area where livestock are raised. Innocent questions are sometimes asked even at a young age if a child is particularly observant. Had my parents panicked and refused to answer some of those innocent questions I would have probably taken the questions to friends at school rather than continuing to ask them. I think it is better to teach them yourself than let school gossip teach them something that is totally wrong or inaccurate. The biology itself is not bad. Rather, I think the important thing is to focus on making sure children grow up knowing just as much about the morals, values, and reasons for those morals and values as they do about the actual biology. For instance, though I knew how baby chickens and calves came about, I was not allowed to watch a lot of shows and movies that depicted immoral human sexuality, nudity, sex scenes etc.

 

[Kamaduck]

I don’t think it’s too young. Heck, my mom gave me a book called “How Babies Are Made” when I was 3 and a half years old when she became pregnant with my brother. She explained it to me. I was too young to get weirded out. It was a fact of life.

And as a result, I’ve always associated sex with babies, never buying into the cultural lie of completely separating the two because “obviously babies are what it’s for!”

I learned about biology as a toddler, too, though the context was learning about anatomy in general. My first exposure to sexual morality was being handed a book at my friend’s church in fourth grade that spoke about the dangers of pornography and how casual sex led to sympathizing with rapists. It didn’t actually mention marriage at all. The OP’s program sounds significantly less destructive.

I think it’s important that children be taught about the proper use of sex before they learn about deviations from it, so that the moral way seems “normal”. It might be unwise to talk to nine-year-olds about sex itself in a school setting, since every child will be at a different stage of knowledge. But nine is definitely old enough for the OP to start discussing these concepts (particularly puberty) with her daughter at home, provided they have a fairly trusting relationship. It’s better for her to hear it from her parents than from people who may not understand where she’s coming from.

Plus, discussing puberty before it happens generally helps to prevent the “oh no I’m bleeding I’m going to die” stage. (Unfortunately, my knowledge of biology did not prepare me for the reality of periods. )

 

[Gwendolen]

Conversation between my teen daughter, and her annoying little brother:

daughter “stop that! you should be nice to me! you are only here because I wanted a brother or sister” (not a nice thing to say, but in her defense he was being super annoying)

son “babies don’t come because you wish for them. I think God just send babies to people who are married.”

Daughter (after reflecting on this for a minute), “well, no that’s not exactly, no…wait, yes, that IS how OUR parents got babies!”

son “told ya.”

 

[Kraftster]

Thank you all for your responses, they were very helpful. My biggest concern was the allowing her to take part in this in the classroom setting, because I know the conversations could get a bit more in detail quickly.

I did go and speak with the teacher and she assured me that they really don’t get into any detail past the mention of sperm and egg at this point. She said she doesn’t let the conversation get advanced and really the kids hear “sperm and egg” in science related to plants and things, so they generally don’t bat an eye. She also requires that there be parent discussion after each chapter and parents even have to sign that they discussed it with their child. So I feel a bit better about this now…

Also, I have read the reviews on this Benziger “Family Life” series on several sights, including EWTN. I believe those reviews are from a much older version. I cannot find any of the examples they speak of in the book we have, which I believe was updated in 2011.

I think that the OP’s daughter probably already knows all about sex and the “mechanics” and she learned all about it (probably with inaccuracies!) from her peers. Kids know about sex at very young ages nowadays, and it’s hard to figure out exactly how they learn so much so early. The only way we can prevent this from happening is to never, ever allow our children to associate with any other children, even their own siblings! Obviously that’s not realistic.

Cat,
Actually…I am quite sure my daughter doesn’t know “all about sex and the mechanics of it”. I started talking with her the other night about just the basic idea of changes with her body as she continues to grow up. Based on our talk that night, which lasted almost an hour, she has NO idea. She asked me about a few things, including how a baby gets out…but nothing about how it gets in. She was a bit grossed out about the idea of growing hair under her arms and other places, and I never even got fully to menstration because I just felt what we talked about was enough for her that night. There are plenty of nights to continue the conversation! At least now we have opened the door to continue.

I have the book “The Joyful Mysteries of Life”, which while we were talking I read from because it’s in a nice story form and was a good lead in for more conversation with her.

I plan on talking with her more over the next few days/weeks so that she hears these things first from me instead of in the classroom. Can I guarantee I will beat some kid giving her the info…no. But I am not going to force it on her either. I’m going to go at a pace I feel is appropriate based on how she is responding when we talk, and the rest I will trust God with.


Michelle

 

[Xantippe]

Sounds good!

It may be a good idea to talk up the bonuses of adulthood (from the kid’s point of view). My 11-year-old is also grossed out by the physical changes and thinks growing up is TERRIBLE, but she’s recently started thinking about having a horse of her own when she grows up and that’s makes it a little better.

 

[Joe_5859]

Also, I have read the reviews on this Benziger “Family Life” series on several sights, including EWTN. I believe those reviews are from a much older version. I cannot find any of the examples they speak of in the book we have, which I believe was updated in 2011.

Ah yes, much can change from one edition to the next. The 2011 edition does appear on the US Bishop’s list of textbooks in conformity with the Catechism. So hopefully that means they have addressed the deficiencies from previous versions. I have not seen the 2011 edition myself. On the whole, most Catholic textbooks have improved significantly since the bishops started that Conformity list back in the late 90’s.

 

[RACJ]

I think that this information should come from YOU, at the right time. A 9yo cannot fully understand sexual attraction, and intercourse seems positively repulsive. But, if you leave it to the schools or classmates, it’s a cinch that moral values will not be imparted to your children in the process. Rob