Family Mass issues

[cricker]

At our parish, we have the practice of doeing a ‘Family Mass’ one Sunday a month in the (Catholic) school gym especially for the benefit of the children who do not get the regular experience of going to Holy Mass (it is during our normal Religious Education time slot).

As part of the last two Masses celebrated, our Pastor had the kids who are about to make their First Holy Communion come up and crowd around the alter for most of the the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Even during the consecration (where he has them all bow). This upsets me profoundly. I teach Religious Ed, and even became a EMHC for the purpose of assisting at this type of Mass (as we don’t have the usual participants, and they were in dire need of assistance).

My dilema is this: if, even after bringing this matter to the attention of the priest in question (via the Liturgical Coordinator), he still persists … is it worse for me to not attend these masses, or to continue to participate even though I know that a grave wrong is being knowingly committed? (I strongly suspect that there will be no changes made to future litugies …)

I am really struggling with this … any insights would be most appreciated.

-Cricket

 

[Iowa_Mike]

At our parish, we have the practice of doeing a ‘Family Mass’ one Sunday a month in the (Catholic) school gym especially for the benefit of the children who do not get the regular experience of going to Holy Mass (it is during our normal Religious Education time slot).

As part of the last two Masses celebrated, our Pastor had the kids who are about to make their First Holy Communion come up and crowd around the alter for most of the the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Even during the consecration (where he has them all bow). This upsets me profoundly. I teach Religious Ed, and even became a EMHC for the purpose of assisting at this type of Mass (as we don’t have the usual participants, and they were in dire need of assistance).

My dilema is this: if, even after bringing this matter to the attention of the priest in question (via the Liturgical Coordinator), he still persists … is it worse for me to not attend these masses, or to continue to participate even though I know that a grave wrong is being knowingly committed? (I strongly suspect that there will be no changes made to future litugies …)

I am really struggling with this … any insights would be most appreciated.

-Cricket

Cricket,

Why don’t you go see the priest in person and explain what is bothering you and ask him to explain why he keeps on keeping on?

Iowa Mike

 

[cricker]

Well, I know that it has been brought up before … I was told he wants the children to have the opportunity to be ‘near Jesus’, and to feel ‘close to God’, as opposed to ‘way out there’ in the seats. He is surely doing it with good intentions (unlike a previous pastor who did this - and countless other things - in outright opposition), but that doesn’t make it right …

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Well, I know that it has been brought up before … I was told he wants the children to have the opportunity to be ‘near Jesus’, and to feel ‘close to God’, as opposed to ‘way out there’ in the seats. He is surely doing it with good intentions (unlike a previous pastor who did this - and countless other things - in outright opposition), but that doesn’t make it right …

Cricket,

Maybe I don’t understand the issue. I don’t see anything with the children coming up with witness the priest consecrating the host. Is this what you are concerned about?

Iowa Mike

 

[cricker]

Mike, I have read that this practice is strictly prohibited:

It is clear from the Congregation from Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments that the presence of laypersons in the sanctuary or presbyterium is not permissible. The following is from an official query/response session from the Congregation and which was published in Notitiae 17 (1981) 61, in the official publication of the Congregation:

QUERY: At the presentation of gifts at a Mass with congregation, persons (lay or religious) bring to the altar the bread and wine which are to be consecrated. These gifts are received by the priest celebrant. All those participating in the Mass accompany this group procession in which the gifts are brought forward. They then stand around the altar until communion time. Is this procedure in conformity with the spirit of the law and of the Roman Missal?

REPLY: Assuredly, the Eucharistic celebration is the act of the entire community, carried out by all the members of the liturgical assembly. Nevertheless, everyone must have and also must observe his or her own place and proper role: “In liturgical celebrations each one, minister or layperson, who has an office to perform, should do all of, but only, those parts which pertain to that office by the nature of the rite and the principles of liturgy.” (SC art. 29).

During the liturgy of the eucharist, only the presiding celebrant remains at the altar. The assembly of the faithful take their place in the Church outside the presbyterium, which is reserved for the celebrant or concelebrants and altar ministers.

 

[John_Lilburne]

…
My dilema is this: if, even after bringing this matter to the attention of the priest in question (via the Liturgical Coordinator), he still persists … is it worse for me to not attend these masses, or to continue to participate even though I know that a grave wrong is being knowingly committed? (I strongly suspect that there will be no changes made to future litugies …)

I am really struggling with this … any insights would be most appreciated.

-Cricket

Obviously, Cricket, you know more about the situation than I do, but here are some thoughts on the decision.

Firstly, there is a person responsibility to fulfil the Sunday obligation. So if you cannot go to another Mass, go to this one.

If you can go to another Mass then that seems a reasonable decision. Your power is this situation is limited, but by going elsewhere you a conveying your dissatisfaction with this decision.

I doubt that there are many Masses where all the liturgical laws are followed. For example, at most Masses I doubt that everyone bows their head at the name of Jesus. They should: from the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“275 … a. A bow of the head is made when the three Divine Persons are named together and at the names of Jesus, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and of the Saint in whose honor Mass is being celebrated.”
So it is likely that you will go from one imperfect Mass to another imperfect Mass.

 

[cricker]

Obviously, Cricket, you know more about the situation than I do, but here are some thoughts on the decision.

Firstly, there is a person responsibility to fulfil the Sunday obligation. So if you cannot go to another Mass, go to this one.

If you can go to another Mass then that seems a reasonable decision. Your power is this situation is limited, but by going elsewhere you a conveying your dissatisfaction with this decision.

I doubt that there are many Masses where all the liturgical laws are followed. For example, at most Masses I doubt that everyone bows their head at the name of Jesus. They should: from the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“275 … a. A bow of the head is made when the three Divine Persons are named together and at the names of Jesus, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and of the Saint in whose honor Mass is being celebrated.”
So it is likely that you will go from one imperfect Mass to another imperfect Mass.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, John. It just sends (bad) chills up my spine when I see kids touching the alter during the consecration … it feels so very wrong!

I am just questioning if, morally, the better choice would be to object by chosing another Mass (which I can easily do), or to be a leader and example to my RE students by pushing aside my discomfort and attending. Which is the morally more acceptable thing to do? (And yes, we do bow at the name of Jesus at our parish … maybe not everyone, but many do)

Thanks again for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
-Cricket

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Mike, I have read that this practice is strictly prohibited:

It is clear from the Congregation from Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments that the presence of laypersons in the sanctuary or presbyterium is not permissible. The following is from an official query/response session from the Congregation and which was published in Notitiae 17 (1981) 61, in the official publication of the Congregation:

QUERY: At the presentation of gifts at a Mass with congregation, persons (lay or religious) bring to the altar the bread and wine which are to be consecrated. These gifts are received by the priest celebrant. All those participating in the Mass accompany this group procession in which the gifts are brought forward. They then stand around the altar until communion time. Is this procedure in conformity with the spirit of the law and of the Roman Missal?

REPLY: Assuredly, the Eucharistic celebration is the act of the entire community, carried out by all the members of the liturgical assembly. Nevertheless, everyone must have and also must observe his or her own place and proper role: “In liturgical celebrations each one, minister or layperson, who has an office to perform, should do all of, but only, those parts which pertain to that office by the nature of the rite and the principles of liturgy.” (SC art. 29).

During the liturgy of the eucharist, only the presiding celebrant remains at the altar. The assembly of the faithful take their place in the Church outside the presbyterium, which is reserved for the celebrant or concelebrants and altar ministers.

Cricket,

Interesting, why don’t you pose a question to one of the Apologists. I’d like to hear their point of view on what you’ve said.

Iowa Mike

 

[Corki]

At our parish, we have the practice of doeing a ‘Family Mass’ one Sunday a month in the (Catholic) school gym especially for the benefit of the children who do not get the regular experience of going to Holy Mass (it is during our normal Religious Education time slot).

Ok, I see a bigger problem here. Are you saying that the children go to RE instead of to Mass? That might be fine for the real littles but for the older ones, they need to be at Mass every Sunday – especially those preparing for First Holy Communion.

If this odd situation was a rarity in the children’s experience of Mass, that would be one thing and easier to explain to the children. But if they only get to see and experience Mass this way, they are missing out on several important elements of what is really happening at Mass by doing this.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Ok, I see a bigger problem here. Are you saying that the children go to RE instead of to Mass? That might be fine for the real littles but for the older ones, they need to be at Mass every Sunday – especially those preparing for First Holy Communion.

If this odd situation was a rarity in the children’s experience of Mass, that would be one thing and easier to explain to the children. But if they only get to see and experience Mass this way, they are missing out on several important elements of what is really happening at Mass by doing this.

This is my problem with it, as well. The kids should be going to Mass and going to RE.

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

Thanks for taking the time to respond, John. It just sends (bad) chills up my spine when I see kids touching the alter during the consecration … it feels so very wrong!

I am just questioning if, morally, the better choice would be to object by chosing another Mass (which I can easily do), or to be a leader and example to my RE students by pushing aside my discomfort and attending. Which is the morally more acceptable thing to do? (And yes, we do bow at the name of Jesus at our parish … maybe not everyone, but many do)

Thanks again for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
-Cricket

I don’t doubt that your expression of the two options is genuine, but I wonder how attending the family Mass leads and sets an example for your students - your simply being there could actually give them the wrong impression, i.e. cricker goes and doesn’t say anything so this must be a perfectly okay way to celebrate Mass. If you made a point of explaining to the children that the priest was strongly abusing the Mass but you were going only to show your support for the idea of a family Mass properly celebrated this might set a certain sort of example, but seems a bit complicated to present to students, especially because it involves making them aware of the priest’s scandalous behavior.

I would say choosing a different Mass to attend (one with less or less serious abuse) would be the clearly morally superior option.

 

[cricker]

Cricket,

Interesting, why don’t you pose a question to one of the Apologists. I’d like to hear their point of view on what you’ve said.

Iowa Mike

Mike-
I actually did, and will post the reply in this thread when it comes through…
-Cricket

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Mike-
I actually did, and will post the reply in this thread when it comes through…
-Cricket

Perfect Cricket, perfect.

Thanks for pursuing this…we Catholics have an obligation to do our best to correct error instead of running from the problems.

I’ll be watching for your post.

Iowa Mike

 

[cricker]

Ok, I see a bigger problem here. Are you saying that the children go to RE instead of to Mass? That might be fine for the real littles but for the older ones, they need to be at Mass every Sunday – especially those preparing for First Holy Communion.

If this odd situation was a rarity in the children’s experience of Mass, that would be one thing and easier to explain to the children. But if they only get to see and experience Mass this way, they are missing out on several important elements of what is really happening at Mass by doing this.

Oops, sorry - not what I meant. We have RE on Sundays at 10am, conveniently following the 8:30 mass. Some parents chose to drop off their kids at RE, and then attend the 10:30 Mass - thus depriving their children of the opportunity to go to Mass. Others simply drop their kids off at RE and take the time to go to breakfast. The children in the last two categories tragically rarely (if ever) have an opportunity to experience Holy Mass, so we cancel the RE classes once a month and instead hold a ‘family mass’ in the school instead (during that same time slot). Sadly, most “non-Mass” parents see this as a total day off, but a FEW kids get the opportunity to experience Mass (as it is) in the school gym. This is where the situation takes place.

I teach very young children (6,7,8), and I do not want to say anything bad about the Mass or about the Priest. He is a bit older, and tries very hard to connect with them (though not very successfully). I think this ‘move’ is one way he is attempting to do just that. Since he arrived about 4 years ago, he has put to end many of the abuses that our previous pastor instituted (with this exception, and the washing of the feet of women and children on Holy Thursday). So he is a HUGE improvement … one that I spent years praying for on my knees. So I do not want to sound uncharitable, or not greatful (as you can imagine, he has met with a LOT of resistance to many of his changes).

Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I have submitted this question to the Apologist (specifically asking what my moral obligations are in such a situation), and I will post their response when it comes. I truely appreciate this community, and the help and support it offers its members. I feel truely blessed!

Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world!

-Cricket