Family teachings

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billcu1

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I hope this is the right forum. Has anything been decided or drawn up into official doctrines and such for our family beliefs by the Synod? It’s been what two months now and I haven’t heard anything. Is this going to change the Catechism or Cannon law?
 
billcu1 said:
I hope this is the right forum. Has anything been decided or drawn up into official doctrines and such for our family beliefs by the Synod? It’s been what two months now and I haven’t heard anything. Is this going to change the Catechism or Cannon law?
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It appears to be all quiet on the Western Front.
 
Has anything been decided or drawn up into official doctrines and such for our family beliefs by the Synod? It’s been what two months now and I haven’t heard anything. Is this going to change the Catechism or Cannon law?
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Let us talk terminology briefly. Doctrine cannot change. The teachings of Christ cannot be changed. Disciplines and canon (not “cannon”) laws can be changed.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
Let us talk terminology briefly. Doctrine cannot change. The teachings of Christ cannot be changed. Disciplines and canon (not “cannon”) laws can be changed.
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OK so then is it discipline that can change in this case?
 
Thomas_White said:
Yes.
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Ok I am still a little confused. Obviously the Holy Father thinks some things need to be looked at so he has created this synod. I’m still not totally sure what’s going on but I would like to know if anything has been said. Maybe because of changes in homosexuality and marriage in some places. 🤷 What is “discipline” in this manner? What exactly is expected to change if anyone knows? Will there be an announcement soon?
 
billcu1 said:
Ok I am still a little confused. Obviously the Holy Father thinks some things need to be looked at so he has created this synod. I’m still not totally sure what’s going on but I would like to know if anything has been said. Maybe because of changes in homosexuality and marriage in some places. 🤷 What is “discipline” in this manner? What exactly is expected to change if anyone knows? Will there be an announcement soon?
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Well, the synod ended in October and a final report with its recommendations was presented to Pope Francis at that time. As far as I know, nothing further has occurred. I don’t believe any substantial change was recommended re: homosexuality, and no one seems certain as to what might be done concerning the divorced and remarried who have not obtained an annullment, if anything. This is all for Pope Francis to decide.

“Discipline” is mainly pastoral practice and any change does not involve a change in doctrine.

As far as I know, the timing of any announcement is not known.
 
Thomas_White said:
Well, the synod ended in October and a final report with its recommendations was presented to Pope Francis at that time. As far as I know, nothing further has occurred. I don’t believe any substantial change was recommended re: homosexuality, and no one seems certain as to what might be done concerning the divorced and remarried who have not obtained an annullment, if anything. This is all for Pope Francis to decide.

“Discipline” is mainly pastoral practice and any change does not involve a change in doctrine.

As far as I know, the timing of any announcement is not known.
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Divorced and remarried? As I understand it that can’t take part in the sacraments. What’s the concern there?
 
billcu1 said:
I hope this is the right forum. Has anything been decided or drawn up into official doctrines and such for our family beliefs by the Synod? It’s been what two months now and I haven’t heard anything. Is this going to change the Catechism or Cannon law?
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Church doctrine has never changed and never will change.

Anyone in a state of mortal sin may not receive Communion. That is an infallible teaching.
A divorced Catholic who remarries without an annulment is in a state of mortal sin and may not receive Communion.

Before anyone jumps in and says mortal sin requires three conditions to be satisfied I know that. However, I do not believe any Catholic does not know that divorce and remarrying without an annulment is a sin of grave matter.
 
I was always taught in Catholic school that dogma cannot change, doctrine can develop but not change, discipline can change as can canon law.

That was always my understanding, but school was in the 60’s…
 
thistle said:
Church doctrine has never changed and never will change.

Anyone in a state of mortal sin may not receive Communion. That is an infallible teaching.
A divorced Catholic who remarries without an annulment is in a state of mortal sin and may not receive Communion.

Before anyone jumps in and says mortal sin requires three conditions to be satisfied I know that. However, I do not believe any Catholic does not know that divorce and remarrying without an annulment is a sin of grave matter.
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Given that only somewhere between 20% and 30% of Catholics attend mass on a regular basis, and catechesis pretty much went into the toilet (and then it flushed) about 2 generations ago, I would be a little less enthusiastic about proclaiming how many Catholics (as in, baptized, and not having renounced the Faith) know what the Catholic Church teaches about any given subject.

Some of these folks wander into a church on a random basis (and wander out again) with almost no other contact. They are primarily “cultural Catholics” in that they may respond “yes” to a survey, but they are essentially non-participatory.

Some of them undoubtedly do know what the Church teaches, at least in part. But I wouldn’t be putting good money on a bet about what they know about marriage, divorce, and Church rules.
 
otjm said:
Given that only somewhere between 20% and 30% of Catholics attend mass on a regular basis, and catechesis pretty much went into the toilet (and then it flushed) about 2 generations ago, I would be a little less enthusiastic about proclaiming how many Catholics (as in, baptized, and not having renounced the Faith) know what the Catholic Church teaches about any given subject.

Some of these folks wander into a church on a random basis (and wander out again) with almost no other contact. They are primarily “cultural Catholics” in that they may respond “yes” to a survey, but they are essentially non-participatory.

Some of them undoubtedly do know what the Church teaches, at least in part. But I wouldn’t be putting good money on a bet about what they know about marriage, divorce, and Church rules.
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There are what are called “cradle Catholics”. They were raised Catholic and didn’t stay with the faith or weren’t taught like those in RCIA.
 
billcu1 said:
There are what are called “cradle Catholics”. They were raised Catholic and didn’t stay with the faith or weren’t taught like those in RCIA.
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I define cradle Catholics as those who were baptized as infants. That, therefore, includes those who have stayed in the Faith, those who have strayed; those who were catechized, and those who weren’t.

Cultural Catholics are those who, whether they were baptized as infants, children, or adults, were generally poorly catechized or not catechized at all, but still identify themselves as Catholic; however, have little or nothing to do with the Church (such as very irregular attendance at Mass).

And I generally group another set as cafeteria Catholics; often they were catechized properly, but have since decided to pick and choose what teachings of the Church they will honor, and what they will not honor. There are a number of them who attend Mass regularly or fairly regularly.
 
otjm said:
I define cradle Catholics as those who were baptized as infants. That, therefore, includes those who have stayed in the Faith, those who have strayed; those who were catechized, and those who weren’t.

Cultural Catholics are those who, whether they were baptized as infants, children, or adults, were generally poorly catechized or not catechized at all, but still identify themselves as Catholic; however, have little or nothing to do with the Church (such as very irregular attendance at Mass).

And I generally group another set as cafeteria Catholics; often they were catechized properly, but have since decided to pick and choose what teachings of the Church they will honor, and what they will not honor. There are a number of them who attend Mass regularly or fairly regularly.
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Oh yes the cafeteria Catholics. And there’s a “Christmas Catholic” too. Come to Mass on Christmas and that’s it. Not even some, on Easter.
 
billcu1 said:
Oh yes the cafeteria Catholics. And there’s a “Christmas Catholic” too. Come to Mass on Christmas and that’s it. Not even some, on Easter.
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I pretty much lump the CE’s (Christmas and Easter) under the cultural Catholics.

One of the problems we have (we being the US, and potentially Europe) is that polls are taken stating “Catholics believe (or do) x,y,z” when there is no distinguishing between cultural, cafeteria, and faithful Catholics (cradle or otherwise). Not that the secular press could even begin to distinguish, but it makes for less than accurate results.
 
I praise God for the Catholics who come to Church for Christmas and Easter. Their candle still flickers and when our Choir sings we sing praise of gratitude that they are here and hopefully we can gently fan a new fire in their hearts.

I have no, none, zilch use for the constant self righteous attitude of some (not all and perhaps only a very few) people who sit in the pews and congratulate themselves on their attendance.
 
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