FAO: Orthodox

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adstrinity

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Hypothetically, you have an audience with the Pope. Would you kiss his ring, yes or no?
 
I was in a similar position when I was introduced years ago to the local Latin bishop.

I decided that I should certainly show him the same courtesy I would like to see his faithful extend to my bishop.

Don’t you think this principle applies?
 
MEETING PATRIARCH

If we are suggested to kiss the ring of bishop of Rome, then if perhaps you meeting with Patriarch Aleksij I hope also catolics would make a bow to ground, or at least to waist, and ask, “Most Holy Vladyko, Bless” and then kiss his hands. When leaving presence of Patriarch to make a departure similar bow.
 
assuming that I know the proper custom/greeting, I would gladly greet an Orthodox Bishop with it. If I do not know, I would make the best effort I could to show respect.

For example, I had no idea the method until Volodymyr posted it. Now, should I meet his Patriarch, I would do that.
 
when did the bishops rings come into existence …i never read in scripture that the apostles ,when ordaining bishops they stuck a ring on there finger…:confused: 🤷
 
rad said:
when did the bishops rings come into existence …i never read in scripture that the apostles ,when ordaining bishops they stuck a ring on there finger…:confused: 🤷
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I do not know the exact dates, but I would assume that they came into existance when the Persecutions ended and the Bishops were able to use seals on their writtings. Most of the rings are a form of signant rings that carry the seal of that episcopacy.

Besides, there is not a denomination on earth that is 100% without traditions.
 
Those that exault themselves will be humbled so says the Lord
 
Hmm… I would have to chose yet another option that is both yes and no; and since it is not offered as a choice in the poll, I must abstain from voting…

Just as I would continue to make the sign of the cross from right to left, maintaining ancient tradition, I would kiss his right hand, not the ring.
 
If the ring had a cross on it ,i would kiss it…out of respect,to the Holy Cross and to the person who’ s wearing it…👍 😃
 
FollowTheWay said:
Those that exault themselves will be humbled so says the Lord
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Excelent point, for he also says those who humble themselves will be exauted. Showing proper respect for those God himself has called ot lead his flock shows humility and respect.
 
I am catholic and weather I was being introduced to the Pope ,or another Bishop of either Catholic or Orthodox faith, or to the secular head of state etc… I would ask what the is the normal and formal form of greeting so as to show the due respect to the person and office they hold.
I did not vote in the poll.
 
Question for both Catholics and Orthodox: would you kiss an Anglicans bishop’s ring? (Answer doesn’t have to be “yes” or “no”. You could also respond e.g. "It would depend on which bishop it was.)
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
I am catholic and weather I was being introduced to the Pope ,or another Bishop of either Catholic or Orthodox faith, or to the secular head of state etc… I would ask what the is the normal and formal form of greeting so as to show the due respect to the person and office they hold.
I did not vote in the poll.
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By the way, what is up with kissing of a ring? Is the ring considered more important than the hand which wears it?

For a while, the normal way to show respect to the Pope of Rome when being introduced, was for the person to kiss the Pope’s feet. Some Orthodox Bishops (possibly Patriarchs) went to a visit to Rome and were shocked that the Pope demanded them to kiss his feet - they obviously refused to kiss the Pope’s feet because they were all equal brother Bishops. Caused quite a scandle. The Pope refused to speak with them for failing to kiss his feet. Being a Bishop is to serve the flock, not to have the flock serve the Bishop. No one should be treated inhumanly.

Somehow requiring someone to kiss your feet rubs me the wrong way since Jesus said that the humble will be exalted and the exalted will be humbled.

I will be happy to show a sign of respect for a bishop or patriarch of a heretical church as I would show respect for every human being created in the Image and Likeness of our Triune God, but I will not show any sign of submission of authority to someone who has no authority over me. Kissing someone’s hand or ring, in my opinion, is showing someone that they have authority over you. I’d never do that. Because that action would be a lie. The Pope of Rome does not have authority over me, but each Sunday (& feast day) I kiss my priest’s hand because he does have authority over me, as does my spiritual father, my Bishop, my Archbishop and my Patriarch (who happens to be the Ecumenical Patriarch) - I’d have no problem kissing any of their hands.
 
Peter_J said:
Question for both Catholics and Orthodox: would you kiss an Anglicans bishop’s ring? (Answer doesn’t have to be “yes” or “no”. You could also respond e.g. "It would depend on which bishop it was.)
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I am going with the it depends on which one…😃
 
StMarina303ad said:
By the way, what is up with kissing of a ring? Is the ring considered more important than the hand which wears it?

For a while, the normal way to show respect to the Pope of Rome when being introduced, was for the person to kiss the Pope’s feet. Some Orthodox Bishops (possibly Patriarchs) went to a visit to Rome and were shocked that the Pope demanded them to kiss his feet - they obviously refused to kiss the Pope’s feet because they were all equal brother Bishops. Caused quite a scandle. The Pope refused to speak with them for failing to kiss his feet. Being a Bishop is to serve the flock, not to have the flock serve the Bishop. No one should be treated inhumanly.

Somehow requiring someone to kiss your feet rubs me the wrong way since Jesus said that the humble will be exalted and the exalted will be humbled.

I will be happy to show a sign of respect for a bishop or patriarch of a heretical church as I would show respect for every human being created in the Image and Likeness of our Triune God, but I will not show any sign of submission of authority to someone who has no authority over me. Kissing someone’s hand or ring, in my opinion, is showing someone that they have authority over you. I’d never do that. Because that action would be a lie. The Pope of Rome does not have authority over me, but each Sunday (& feast day) I kiss my priest’s hand because he does have authority over me, as does my spiritual father, my Bishop, my Archbishop and my Patriarch (who happens to be the Ecumenical Patriarch) - I’d have no problem kissing any of their hands.
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Do you have a source for the foot-kissing incedent?
 
ralphinal said:
Do you have a source for the foot-kissing incedent?
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This is not my source, but something I just found on-line at: newadvent.org/cathen/08663a.htm

Kissing of the feet
The veneration shown in the kissing of a person’s hand or the hem of his garment is accentuated in the kissing of the feet. This is probably implied by the phrase of Isaias (49:23): “Kings…shall lick up the dust of Thy feet.” Under the influence, no doubt, of the ceremonial of king-worship, as manifested in the cultus of the Roman emperors, this particular mark of veneration came to prevail at an early date among the usages of the papal court (see Lattey, “Ancient King-Worship”, Lond., 1909 C. T. S. pamhlet). We read of it in the first “Ordo Romanus” belonging to the seventh century, but even earlier than this the “Liber Pontificalis” attests that the Emperor Justin paid this mark of respect to Pope John I (523-26), as later on Justinian II also did to Pope Constantine. At the election of Leo IV (847) the custom of so kissing the pope’s foot was spoken of as an ancient one. It is not, therefore, wonderful that a practice supported by so early a tradition should still be observed. It is observed liturgically in a solemn papal Mass by the Latin and Greek subdeacons, and quasi-liturgically in the “adoration” of the pope by the cardinals after his election. It is also the normal salutation which papal etiquette prescribes for those of the faithful who are presented to the pope in a private audience.
(My bolding)
 
StMarina303ad said:
This is not my source, but something I just found on-line at: newadvent.org/cathen/08663a.htm

Kissing of the feet
The veneration shown in the kissing of a person’s hand or the hem of his garment is accentuated in the kissing of the feet. This is probably implied by the phrase of Isaias (49:23): “Kings…shall lick up the dust of Thy feet.” Under the influence, no doubt, of the ceremonial of king-worship, as manifested in the cultus of the Roman emperors, this particular mark of veneration came to prevail at an early date among the usages of the papal court (see Lattey, “Ancient King-Worship”, Lond., 1909 C. T. S. pamhlet). We read of it in the first “Ordo Romanus” belonging to the seventh century, but even earlier than this the “Liber Pontificalis” attests that the Emperor Justin paid this mark of respect to Pope John I (523-26), as later on Justinian II also did to Pope Constantine. At the election of Leo IV (847) the custom of so kissing the pope’s foot was spoken of as an ancient one. It is not, therefore, wonderful that a practice supported by so early a tradition should still be observed. It is observed liturgically in a solemn papal Mass by the Latin and Greek subdeacons, and quasi-liturgically in the “adoration” of the pope by the cardinals after his election. It is also the normal salutation which papal etiquette prescribes for those of the faithful who are presented to the pope in a private audience.
(My bolding)
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Thanks. I had never seen that.

I did find it interesting that you cut the article off before this sentence.
In his “De altaris mysterio” (VI, 6) Innocent III explains that this ceremony indicates “the very great reverence due to the Supreme Pontiff as the Vicar of Him whose feet” were kissed by the woman who was a sinner.
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This says to me that it is more about him representing Jesus than him being over anyone…
 
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