Fast Tracking the Canonization of John Paul II

[JKirkLVNV]

Given the fact that he canonized more saints than all of his predecessors combined, we may safely assume it was a bit much. Yes, they are all in heaven. And…so? Even a man who lives a sinful life for 80 years and has a deathbed conversion ends up in heaven. Eventually. Doesn’t mean he should be held up as a model of Christian virtue.

John Paul II is an example of cult of personality run wild. What, he should be canonized because he had a kind smile? Because, in far too few instances sadly, he actually exercised the authority of his office and re-affirmed Catholic teachings? Because he knew how to play a crowd?

And what of the state of our Church at the end of his pontificate? Was it a stronger, more faithful Church? One need only check the bankruptcy filings to see that somebody’s been asleep at the switch for a good 25 years at least.

But the post-Conciliar Church may choose to run their canonization process like a new episode of American Idol if they see fit. Knock yourselves out. What those people do is rapidly losing any importance to me as the years roll by.

You offer voluminous commentary for someone who is clearly bored with the post-conciliar Church. How about answering the question I asked, rather than all the ones I didn’t? Which ones should he have NOT canonized?

 

[KMXV]

You offer voluminous commentary for someone who is clearly bored with the post-conciliar Church. How about answering the question I asked, rather than all the ones I didn’t? Which ones should he have NOT canonized?

Don’t be argumentative, Vegas. You’ll get the thread shut down.

And don’t try to build straw men. That’s not very becoming. I never said any of them should NOT have been canonized. But the sheer number cheapened the whole process.

 

[pnewton]

I never said he made a mistake. That is your word, not mine.

And Benedict’s personal opinion of his predecessor carries as much weight as mine. The pope is not God.

As you said, “your words, not mine”. Apparently you are wrong about your opinion counting as much as Pope Benedict’s. After all, we are well into the confirmation process. Also, since he personally knew the man well, his opinion is informed, as opposed to an uninformed opnion.

 

[KMXV]

An informed opinion can still be wrong.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I wish the Church would wait, like they traditionally do, so that with the passage of time, a clear perspective not clouded by the emotions of those who were close to the Pope will be brought into the process. Otherwise, there is the potential for uncertainty in the minds of those who question the reason for the hasty canonization.

 

[dulcissima]

Looking through my PM archives I found this prayer that a friend sent to me a year ago:

Prayer for Asking Graces through the Intercession of the Servant of God John Paul II

O Blessed Trinity,
We thank you for having graced the Church with Pope John Paul II
And for allowing the tenderness of your Fatherly care, the glory of the cross of Christ, and the splendor of the Holy Spirit to shine through him.
Trusting fully in Your infinite mercy and in the maternal intercession of Mary, he has given us a living image of Jesus the Good Shepherd, and has shown us that holiness is the necessary measure of ordinary Christian life and is the way of achieving eternal communion with You.
Grant us, by his intercession, and according to Your will, the graces we implore, hoping that he will soon be numbered among Your saints. Amen.

 

[dulcissima]

Looking through my PM archives I found this prayer that a friend sent to me a year ago:

Prayer for Asking Graces through the Intercession of the Servant of God John Paul II

O Blessed Trinity,
We thank you for having graced the Church with Pope John Paul II
And for allowing the tenderness of your Fatherly care, the glory of the cross of Christ, and the splendor of the Holy Spirit to shine through him.
Trusting fully in Your infinite mercy and in the maternal intercession of Mary, he has given us a living image of Jesus the Good Shepherd, and has shown us that holiness is the necessary measure of ordinary Christian life and is the way of achieving eternal communion with You.
Grant us, by his intercession, and according to Your will, the graces we implore, hoping that he will soon be numbered among Your saints. Amen.

 

[dulcissima]

Looking through my PM archives I found this prayer that a friend sent to me a year ago:

Prayer for Asking Graces through the Intercession of the Servant of God John Paul II

O Blessed Trinity,
We thank you for having graced the Church with Pope John Paul II
And for allowing the tenderness of your Fatherly care, the glory of the cross of Christ, and the splendor of the Holy Spirit to shine through him.
Trusting fully in Your infinite mercy and in the maternal intercession of Mary, he has given us a living image of Jesus the Good Shepherd, and has shown us that holiness is the necessary measure of ordinary Christian life and is the way of achieving eternal communion with You.
Grant us, by his intercession, and according to Your will, the graces we implore, hoping that he will soon be numbered among Your saints. Amen.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Don’t be argumentative, Vegas. You’ll get the thread shut down.

And don’t try to build straw men. That’s not very becoming. I never said any of them should NOT have been canonized. But the sheer number cheapened the whole process.

Well, I really don’t think any objective person would say that **I **was the one building strawmen. It seems to me that I asked which ones should Pope John Paul II NOT have canonized and you’re the one who trotted off in several different directions (the state of the Church, the cult of personality, etc.). Any rate…

So there’s none of them that shouldn’t have been canonized?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Otherwise, there is the potential for uncertainty in the minds of those who question the reason for the hasty canonization.

There shouldn’t be any reason for uncertainty. Canonization is an infallible act.

 

[paramedicgirl]

There shouldn’t be any reason for uncertainty. Canonization is an infallible act.

No, I mean the process of fast tracking can create unhealthy controversy among those who object to it. What is the harm in waiting? I see none, but I do see harm in hurrying.

 

[Cor_Jesu]

There shouldn’t be any reason for uncertainty. Canonization is an infallible act.

Let’s just hold our horses and see if there is a canonization…you never know, there could be some sort of divine intervention showing God’s displeasure with JP2 being canonized. I would not be suprised at all if some freak tornado or earthquake hit Rome on the day JP2 is supposed to be beatified/canonized.

And canonization is only infallible insofar as the person canonized is certainly in heaven. It doesn’t mean it is prudent to canonize them.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

No, I mean the process of fast tracking can create unhealthy controversy among those who object to it. What is the harm in waiting? I see none, but I do see harm in hurrying.

Why don’t we simply trust God and the Church?

 

[paramedicgirl]

Why don’t we simply trust God and the Church?

That’s a question you should be asking all the people who are pushing for a speedy canonization.

 

[Cor_Jesu]

Why don’t we simply trust God and the Church?

Hmm…the Church had some pretty reasonable steps in place for the process of canonization…until JP2 came along and did away with it in order to crank out as many saints as possible.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Let’s just hold our horses and see if there is a canonization…you never know, there could be some sort of divine intervention showing God’s displeasure with JP2 being canonized. And canonization is only infallible insofar as the person canonized is certainly in heaven. It doesn’t mean it is prudent to canonize them.

A) All I’ve been doing is holding my horses (and praying for the canonization of the Servant of God, John Paul II, as I was bidden to do by the Vicar of Christ on earth).

B) The Church’s will, in the end, will be the only measure of prudence that matters.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Hmm…the Church had some pretty reasonable steps in place for the process of canonization…until JP2 came along and did away with it in order to crank out as many saints as possible.

Yes, I know, I know, “change.” Bad, bad, bad. I mean, the way we’d been doing it up until he came along fell out out of the sky…with the Tridentine missal.

 

[Cor_Jesu]

A) All I’ve been doing is holding my horses (and praying for the canonization of the Servant of God, John Paul II, as I was bidden to do by the Vicar of Christ on earth).

B) The Church’s will, in the end, will be the only measure of prudence that matters.

It would be an interesting irony of both John Paul II and Archbishop Lefebvre (may he rest in peace) are both canonized, as I’m sure Lefebvre will someday be. If John Paul II IS ever canonized and is in heaven, I guess he FINALLY knows that his “excommunication” of Lefebvre was invalid!

 

[Cor_Jesu]

A) All I’ve been doing is holding my horses (and praying for the canonization of the Servant of God, John Paul II, as I was bidden to do by the Vicar of Christ on earth).

B) The Church’s will, in the end, will be the only measure of prudence that matters.

It would be an interesting irony of both John Paul II and Archbishop Lefebvre (may he rest in peace) are both canonized, as I’m sure Lefebvre will someday be. If John Paul II IS ever canonized and is in heaven, I guess he FINALLY knows that his “excommunication” of Lefebvre was invalid! That and that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

That’s a question you should be asking all the people who are pushing for a speedy canonization.

I don’t feel the need to worry about it one way or the other. You know, most of the saints, at least of the last century or so, have had people pulling for their canonization. This is no different.