M
- Status
P
pensmama87
Guest
American Academy of Family Physicians:
That is…gross. Talk about evidence of the “culture of death” - where new life is just considered an unfair burden for parents and society to bear!
Blech.
That is…gross. Talk about evidence of the “culture of death” - where new life is just considered an unfair burden for parents and society to bear!
Z
z_0101
Guest
I think that is a very over reaching statement against a peer reviewed journal of medicine, and twisted to a very dark side.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Academy of Family Physicians
*
The most important consequence of contraceptive failure is unintended pregnancy, which is costly to the individual and to society.
*
Blech.
That is…gross. Talk about evidence of the “culture of death” - where new life is just considered an unfair burden for parents and society to bear!
If you will take a simple look at the advisory board:
aafp.org/journals/afp/about/advisory.html
You will find a very broad/diverse group of professionals that hold a diverse point of view.
Let’s take a look at the consequence of contraceptive failure in a practicing Catholic Family using NFP - myself and a close friend of mine:
For myself, given the medical conditions of my wife, we didn’t adhere to the NFP very well… the people in the “know” said that we most likely would never conceive again… with three children, two that were in the NICU for a very long time, we are already drowning in medical bills… insurance has so many loop holes, especially for NICU… we’ll most likely be on the streets in another year unless something gives. I make too much money for any government or private help. Found only one grant that paid a very small amount against the NICU bill; however, we then had to declare that as income, which pushed us into the bottom of the next tax bracket… great.
The failure (even though it was ours at root) has had a very major and costly impact upon my family. Did we ever once think about termination for our youngest… no - took on another $10K in medical debit.
For my friends… guess what… they are in that 1 - 5% where NFP doesn’t work. Years of charting only to find out that she double and sometimes triple ovulates… they just had to purchase a second larger vehicle, medically… she’s placed her own life in danger with every pregnancy, they are $100K’s (I don’t know how many $100k’s however just about everyone of the 8 kids has spent a least a week in NICU and most of them have had to be on this special formula that can be obtained only by prescription at about $300 per small can that lasts about a week)
So, you tell me how the statement “The most important consequence …” is strictly, solely, and exclusivelyfrom a culture of death? It is a true statement even for those of us that are practicing Catholics.
S
skippley
Guest
The most abbreviated NFP user manual (simple question-answer format), Natural Family Planning: The Complete Approach, written by the Kippleys, is easily available online at www.NFPandmore.org for a suggested donation of $10 and it is free for the truly poor. Free charts are available for anyone at this website by NFP International. NFPI also provides an online Home Study Course for way less than most NFP organizations. A few rare couples have completed this course in two weeks. NFPI evangelizes with regard to Church teaching, teaches all the fertility signs and rules plus teaches exclusive and ecological breastfeeding. Practice areas are given after a concept or rule is taught. NFPI offers all the options and lets the couples decide their use of NFP. The manual is 156 pages and has been downloaded by folks in over 115 countries.
Sheila Kippley
Sheila Kippley
P
pensmama87
Guest
I am sorry for your struggles and that of your friend.
I don’t deny that an unintended pregnancy can bring hardship. What bugs me is the idea that somehow that hardship is the major aspect of it, and that babies are to be viewed primarily as costly to families and societies, instead of blessings, and what enables our society to continue. The statement does not even reflect that unintended pregnancy results in a human person.
The way the statement was worded came across as dehumanizing to the baby, and that really rubbed me the wrong way - and is evidence to me of the “culture of death” view that children (as well as the elderly, disabled, and anyone else less than “perfect”) are liabilities that need to be avoided and extinguished, rather than lives to celebrate as gifts from God.
The “most important consequence” of any pregnancy is a new human life, NOT the costs associated with it.
Z
z_0101
Guest
- Thank You for your empathy - a Prayer or dozen would be greatly appreciated, the teenage years are coming
None-the-less, clothing, food, schooling… there is simply very little left to pay the mortgage, the car payment, insurance, etc… and having a night out with the wife (?) that was rare… however, with the oldest now at babysitting age, there’s a MC-D and the the dollar menu every so often. Clothing… there’s a group of 10 or so families that swap clothing between us… usually in fairly good condition for the infants - just not really worn that much, the older kids it’s harder because they are rougher… but we make do… and it is an economic choice and we’re blessed with a close Catholic Community. When we came home from the NICU - the house was cleaned (baseboards everything!) the fridge and freezer were stocked with full meals and snacks, the cribs were setup… and Fr. had been by to re-bless the house - we could have cried.
- I can certainly see how the statement can be interpreted to disregard the importance of human life. Please understand, scientific papers are often written in what should be a neutral position and the conclusions are usually what the author perceives as the root/final cause or effect. With that said, the costs associated with new life simply cannot be disregarded; the point of fact is, that the little-one requires resources to grow, learn, and live and that often these resources are scarce in impoverished areas of the world and even in more affluent areas many will find it difficult to provide the required economic support… the cross can be heavy. This economic fact shouldn’t in anyway diminish the value of human life and I don’t get the impression that such was the intent of the author. Then again, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and I have read hundreds of such journals so I also tend to read for more positives - but that’s just me.
Christ be With You
-z
X
Xantippe
Guest
I wouldn’t recommend a calendar approach to a newbie who may be experiencing weird cycles due to wedding stress.… the hardship for us is the money… not the children. Neither my friends nor my wife and I would ever think of giving up these kids… not without a tooth-n-toenail fight
- Thank You for your empathy - a Prayer or dozen would be greatly appreciated, the teenage years are coming
None-the-less, clothing, food, schooling… there is simply very little left to pay the mortgage, the car payment, insurance, etc… and having a night out with the wife (?) that was rare… however, with the oldest now at babysitting age, there’s a MC-D and the the dollar menu every so often. Clothing… there’s a group of 10 or so families that swap clothing between us… usually in fairly good condition for the infants - just not really worn that much, the older kids it’s harder because they are rougher… but we make do… and it is an economic choice and we’re blessed with a close Catholic Community. When we came home from the NICU - the house was cleaned (baseboards everything!) the fridge and freezer were stocked with full meals and snacks, the cribs were setup… and Fr. had been by to re-bless the house - we could have cried.
IN any case, the thread is supposed to be on a fast way to learn NFP. Given the time frame for OP, the more conservative and easy to learn is the one I gave about abstaining between day 6 and day 19 until she could find better materials and (IMHO) a good class.
- I can certainly see how the statement can be interpreted to disregard the importance of human life. Please understand, scientific papers are often written in what should be a neutral position and the conclusions are usually what the author perceives as the root/final cause or effect. With that said, the costs associated with new life simply cannot be disregarded; the point of fact is, that the little-one requires resources to grow, learn, and live and that often these resources are scarce in impoverished areas of the world and even in more affluent areas many will find it difficult to provide the required economic support… the cross can be heavy. This economic fact shouldn’t in anyway diminish the value of human life and I don’t get the impression that such was the intent of the author. Then again, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and I have read hundreds of such journals so I also tend to read for more positives - but that’s just me.
Christ be With You
-z
L
Lorelei12
Guest
I agree- not a good suggestion. Plenty of people on this thread and others have demonstrated that it’s possible to self-teach a reliable method of NFP. No need to resort to ineffective shortcuts.
M
maryjk
Guest
In fact, in a recent poll here on CAF, it was found that only 20% learned from an instructor.
Z
z_0101
Guest
and that is what happens when people either don’t remember what was said, take things out of context, or simply fail to read the entire thread; therefore, please read my first post: [ wherein I point out that the cycle needs to be “like clockwork”
{sigh}](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12101823&postcount=8)
Z
z_0101
Guest
Unless you have a different poll, (please provide the link - will happily go read thru the data and the thread
In fact, in a recent poll here on CAF, it was found that only 20% learned from an instructor.
)the most recent one I found on CAF
Non-scientific poll.
Violates the basic principals of statistical analysis
Results fail to show the null-hypothesis
The question posed was/is leading in nature
Raw results were not reviled
The status of the population was not validated to fit within the parameters of the null-hypothesis.
I’m an Analytical Chemist, Chemistry, Mathematics, and Statistical Analysis are my bread-n-butter… there are strict criteria to be met before any poll can be considered to be anything more than possibly indicative of the need for more formalized study.
J
jlc2k2
Guest
I think the problem is that there haven’t been any scientific studies that really answer this question or at least I haven’t found them. I don’t think the question of whether an instructer is required or common for the successful use of NFP was fully addressed in the studies you cited. Yet you still stated your opinion that maryjk is an “exception to the rule” for learning NFP without an instructor as if it was a fact.Unless you have a different poll, (please provide the link - will happily go read thru the data and the thread
the most recent one I found on CAF
Non-scientific poll.
Violates the basic principals of statistical analysis
Results fail to show the null-hypothesis
The question posed was/is leading in nature
Raw results were not reviled
The status of the population was not validated to fit within the parameters of the null-hypothesis.
I’m an Analytical Chemist, Chemistry, Mathematics, and Statistical Analysis are my bread-n-butter… there are strict criteria to be met before any poll can be considered to be anything more than possibly indicative of the need for more formalized study.
I am also an analyst by trade.
M
maryjk
Guest
If I really cared what you thought of the poll, I would find another.
But I don’t.
I simply wanted to show the OP that it was not unusual to learn NFP on your own. That an organized class isn’t required.
I did that. So I am satisfied.
L
Lorelei12
Guest
X
Xantippe
Guest
Yes. One can almost expect cycle weirdness at certain times–wedding stress, major exams, whatever.
Also, it’s really important that if the couple is just starting out with NFP that they have some initial success, especially if one member of the couple is not feeling enthusiastic as in the OP’s case. As I recall, she is feeling somewhat resentful about NFP. Add in one or two “surprise” babies right off, and she’s going to be (at the very minimum) really ticked off.
Again, if one can deal with the abstinence involved, probably the safest way to go is to start out with Phase 3 relations and then add in some Phase 1 as one has more and more data and experience.
It’s also nice to have a realistic end date in mind for when they can ease up (when I get done with school, when my husband gets a job, after we move back to the US, etc.).
K
ktranamber
Guest
I was searching for answers too and one of the post suggested app to help track bbt.
I started using the Kindara app about a year ago. They have a vast amount of knowledge base and their app is so easy to use and so simple to read. Not only am I tracking to avoid pregnancy, but it has empowered me to understand my body in so many ways.
They just launch a new wireless thermometer to make it even easier.
More info here with $10 off - kindara.com/r/aSeBOhiJS
I started using the Kindara app about a year ago. They have a vast amount of knowledge base and their app is so easy to use and so simple to read. Not only am I tracking to avoid pregnancy, but it has empowered me to understand my body in so many ways.
They just launch a new wireless thermometer to make it even easier.
More info here with $10 off - kindara.com/r/aSeBOhiJS
- Status