Fasting - what's the point?

[in_servitude]

I guess what I would say with the ‘unbiblical’ retort is “why in the world does it matter whether or not its biblical? I’ve given you the reason why I personally want to fast. Are you telling me that since I’m a Catholic I’m not allowed to do anything unless I can cite a passage in the Bible telling me to do it? That is absolutely ridiculous. I have a reason, and a good reason at that, for wanting to fast, so why do you still have a problem with that?”

I think it will come to that point eventually. Fortunately for me, I have no problem being the odd one out. That’s probably a grace that’s been given to me for this situation.

It isn’t that everyone is like this with me - just a couple of them. And, if I can defend it better (for their sake), I would like to be able to.

I’ll continue to fast regardless what gets thrown at me.

 

[Portrait]

I prefer the discussion to be one based on a “sola-scriptura” theology. For those that are coming at Christianity from a bible-alone perspective, what is the point of fasting?

Matt Ch6 - the “when you fast” statement assumes that we will fast. Is there any point to it, other than it is prescribed to be done? Does it affect salvation in any way? Is anyone going to Heaven because of fasting? Is anyone not going to Heaven because they didn’t fast?

Wasn’t the atoning death of Christ enough?

Dear =in_servitude,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

There are, dear friend, numerous valid and ‘practical’ reasons at to why people fast. To withdraw occasionally from one’s normal intake of food and drink can enable a man to feel more alert and healthier, to sleep more soundly, to reduce weight and to gain a greater degree of self-control over the flesh. However, from a Christian standpoint fasting is chiefly a religious act which draws a man closer to God. Indeed, it is a very unique way of expressing praise, love, hope and faith in God, of keeping oneself open to His continual desire to fashion us in the image of His dear Son, Jesus Christ. As the renowned 2nd. Century theologian St. Irenaeus wrote, God shaped us and continues to do so. It is our duty to offer our Creator a heart that is soft and malleable. Let the clay be moist, says St. Irenaeus, so we do not grow hard and loose the imprint of His fingers.

Food and drink are one of the great treasures of our lives and it is undeniable that they are among those blessings which God giveth us richly to enjoy, though not to over indulge in, as is so common now in the West. One of the great motives for fasting, therefore dear friend, is the one that we find frequently presented in Sacred Scripture. It is, as it were, a way of responding to God’s persistent efforts to win our attention, of telling Him that we really are in earnest about that for which we pray for, whether it be a prayer of praise and worship, requesting some favour, giving thanks or any other intention.

We are also required to fast in expiation of our sins. St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “Let us exhibit ourselves as servants of God, in patience and fastings”. A Christian spirit of reparation says, “I indulged my senses at the expense of God’s law; I will now therefore mortify them at the expense of my own comfort”. Spiritual virtue is exercised when a man abstains from his intake of food and drink from a motive of self-denial, gratitude and obedience. We all need to fast much more often in this age of material prosperity and not merely on the special days appointed by Holy Mother Church.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[revert_jen]

By fasting from what is good while we are strong, we prepare ourselves to say no to that which is bad while we are weak.

Amen! Well said.

I might add that I assume that the Protestants with whom you are speaking think it is impoprtant to grow in virtue. If they don’t, there isn’t really any way to have a useful discussion with them about fasting. If they do, then fasting can be a valuable tool to grow in self control, which is necessary for increasing in any virtue.

Besides, it’s silly to say that all truth is found in the Bible. Someone prove to me using the Bible that New York City exists. You can’t? Then it must not exist. (Sometimes reductio ad absurdum really does have a place in argument. ) This is one benefit of fasting that can be learned by trying it and seeing what it does.

–Jen

 

[benjohnson]

Ok… I thin I get it… you want an iron-clad argument for fasting that will work on “solo scriptura” Christians.

There’s one sneaky way out - bring up Martin Luther. For some reason, a lot of my baptist friend will listen if I say “Martin Luther says do this…”

*“Of fasting I say this: it is right to fast frequently in order to subdue and control the body. For when the stomach is full, the body does not serve for preaching, for praying, for studying, or for doing anything else that is good. Under such circumstances God’s Word cannot remain. But one should not fast with a view to meriting something by it as by a good work” (What Luther Says, St. Louis: Concordia Publ. House, Vol.1, 1959, p. 506). *

 

[in_servitude]

However, from a Christian standpoint fasting is chiefly a religious act which draws a man closer to God. Indeed, it is a very unique way of expressing praise, love, hope and faith in God, of keeping oneself open to His continual desire to fashion us in the image of His dear Son, Jesus Christ. As the renowned 2nd. Century theologian St. Irenaeus wrote, God shaped us and continues to do so. It is our duty to offer our Creator a heart that is soft and malleable. Let the clay be moist, says St. Irenaeus, so we do not grow hard and loose the imprint of His fingers.

Drawing us closer to God is right. Also, “shaping us” is also correct - because I feel changes happening. I think there are a number of things that make this occur, but the fasting is one that I’ll appreciate even more so at this point.

We are also required to fast in expiation of our sins. St. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “Let us exhibit ourselves as servants of God, in patience and fastings”.

Is this from 2Cor 6:4? I see some bibles have this translation. But, the Catholic translation I have goes like this: (2 Cor 6:3-10)

3 We cause no one to stumble in anything, in order that no fault may be found with our ministry; 4 on the contrary, in everything we commend ourselves as ministers of God, through much endurance, in afflictions, hardships, constraints, 5 beatings, imprisonments, riots, labors, vigils, fasts; 6 by purity, knowledge, patience, kindness, in a holy spirit, in unfeigned love, 7in truthful speech, in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness at the right and at the left; 8 through glory and dishonor, insult and praise. We are treated as deceivers and yet are truthful; 9 as unrecognized and yet acknowledged; as dying and behold we live; as chastised and yet not put to death; 10 as sorrowful yet always rejoicing; as poor yet enriching many; as having nothing and yet possessing all things.

This seems like “the point” of fasting is so that someone wouldn’t come along and knock Paul for being a false teacher. It would be an interesting scripture to present to someone trying to understand the point of fasting.

A Christian spirit of reparation says, “I indulged my senses at the expense of God’s law; I will now therefore mortify them at the expense of my own comfort”. Spiritual virtue is exercised when a man abstains from his intake of food and drink from a motive of self-denial, gratitude and obedience. We all need to fast much more often in this age of material prosperity and not merely on the special days appointed by Holy Mother Church.

Well, as I was looking for the reference in this quote, I happened upon the “Celldoor Bible: Radio Replies” website that seems to have much of this text word-for-word. But, my googling didn’t find the bible quote where this comes from. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!!!

 

[in_servitude]

Ok… I thin I get it… you want an iron-clad argument for fasting that will work on “solo scriptura” Christians.

There’s one sneaky way out - bring up Martin Luther. For some reason, a lot of my baptist friend will listen if I say “Martin Luther says do this…”

*“Of fasting I say this: it is right to fast frequently in order to subdue and control the body. For when the stomach is full, the body does not serve for preaching, for praying, for studying, or for doing anything else that is good. Under such circumstances God’s Word cannot remain. But one should not fast with a view to meriting something by it as by a good work” (What Luther Says, St. Louis: Concordia Publ. House, Vol.1, 1959, p. 506). *

I’ll try it. But, I’d be surprised if they’d be willing to listen to anything outside the bible. Which is weird, because the bible is a product of tradition - but that also is a discussion ending statement.

 

[57Bill]

I could say that to my co-workers, but the conversation goes nowhere. Maybe that’s the right answer. I’m not so sure.

I fast.

Fasting can be as simple a joy as sharing your lunch with someone who forgot their own.

I don’t get the sola angle, sorry.

I also agree the bible is a product of tradition. Maybe that’s where I’m misunderstanding.

 

[thewanderer]

I fast.

Fasting can be as simple a joy as sharing your lunch with someone who forgot their own.

I don’t get the sola angle, sorry.

I think its that he’s not just looking for a way to get them off his back, he has a back out plan that he will resort to if he can’t find anything better, but that out of charity he wants to find a way to convince them, if possible, that it is a good and christian thing to do. They won’t listen to anything but sola scriptura, so he’s looking for an argument from scripture to show them that fasting is a good thing. Its out of charity for his friends.

 

[Portrait]

Is this from 2Cor 6:4? I see some bibles have this translation. But, the Catholic translation I have goes like this: (2 Cor 6:3-10)

This seems like “the point” of fasting is so that someone wouldn’t come along and knock Paul for being a false teacher. It would be an interesting scripture to present to someone trying to understand the point of fasting.

Well, as I was looking for the reference in this quote, I happened upon the “Celldoor Bible: Radio Replies” website that seems to have much of this text word-for-word. But, my googling didn’t find the bible quote where this comes from. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!!!

Dear in_ servitude,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.

In the II Corinthians 6 passage St. Paul insists that one of the primary concerns of his ministry is to avoid giving anyone the opportunity of making his conduct as an apostle a ground for rejecting the Gospel. In verses 4 and 5, dear friend, you have an eloquent description of the ways in which St. Paul commended himself, which evinces most plainly that no man could accuse him of preaching from unworthy motives, or of not having suffered for the holy doctrine which he proclaimed. One of these ways was “fastings” (A.V.) “hunger” (RSV - Second Catholic Ed.). Now this could have reference to voluntary fasts as a means of disciplining the body (cf. Acts 13: 2), or it could mean long periods of hunger as a result of poverty (cf. II Cor. 11: 27). Whatever the exact meaning, the former interpretation cannot be ruled out and is a legitimate elucidation of the sacred text.

The citation from Radio Replies is not a bible quotation, dear friend, but rather an example of the manner in which a Christian would reason within himself, based upon the duty of mortification of the flesh, which most certainly is biblical teaching. Thus St. Paul says “Put to death (or mortify) therefore what is earthly in you: immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming” (Col. 3: 5,6). Fasting is a spiritual aid towards this goal and therefore helps us in our struggle against “what is earthly in (us)”. Clearly, dear friend, if fallen human nature is to be sanctified, then many of its natural inclinations must needs be mortified. The body in so far as it becomes earth-bound is to be dealt with radically. Thus any activity or tendency of the body which makes it subject to our fallen nature calls for mortification in the sense of a determined refusal to yeild to its appeal. It is here that earnest prayer and fasting are indispensable as a means to the pursuit of holiness.

God bless and hope that is of some help, dear friend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[in_servitude]

I fast.

What is the point of your fasting? Or, why do you fast?

Fasting can be as simple a joy as sharing your lunch with someone who forgot their own.

Yes. Going without hot water for a day might also be a fast. Eating something served that you dislike could also be a fast. The options are limitless.

I don’t get the sola angle, sorry.

I also agree the bible is a product of tradition. Maybe that’s where I’m misunderstanding.

The sola angle is not my angle, it’s the angle that I deal with here at times.

 

[in_servitude]

I think its that he’s not just looking for a way to get them off his back, he has a back out plan that he will resort to if he can’t find anything better, but that out of charity he wants to find a way to convince them, if possible, that it is a good and christian thing to do. They won’t listen to anything but sola scriptura, so he’s looking for an argument from scripture to show them that fasting is a good thing. Its out of charity for his friends.

You said it better than I could. Thanks!!!