Fatal illness and suicide

[Erik1978]

I thought I posted this before but maybe I did something wrong since it can’t be found.

OK this is a strange dilemma. If a healthy person were to be diagnosed with cancer and the person refused treatment and instead chose to let nature take it’s course and die, would that be considered suicide?

 

[ChurchSoldier]

No.

 

[Regina_Love]

healthy people don’t just give up some thing as valuable as life with out a fight! find alternate treatments, investigate. They don’t quit on life, unless they are very distressed, or depressed IMO.

 

[triumphguy]

healthy people don’t just give up some thing as valuable as life with out a fight! find alternate treatments, investigate. They don’t quit on life, unless they are very distressed, or depressed IMO.

Not necessarily: I can see that in some circumstances the person might say forget chemo and radiation I’m just going to live what life I have as best as I can.

The very aggressive Pancreatic and esophageal cancers come to mind.

 

[cornbread_r2]

This is where the margin between the RCC’s position on euthanasia and its position that people can morally refuse treatment seems to become incredibly thin. The only difference I can see is one of direct action versus an indirect one. For me, that’s not enough of a difference to justify forcing people to live longer than they want,

 

[GEddie]

This is where the margin between the RCC’s position on euthanasia and its position that people can morally refuse treatment seems to become incredibly thin. The only difference I can see is one of direct action versus an indirect one. For me, that’s not enough of a difference to justify forcing people to live longer than they want,

It’s not that thin. You can’t directly cause somebody’s death. But one is not required to take all pains necessary to remain alive. If the course of nature (ie, disease state) will lead to death, there is no obligation to keep fighting it.

ICXC NIKA

 

[cornbread_r2]

It’s not that thin. You can’t directly cause somebody’s death. But one is not required to take all pains necessary to remain alive. If the course of nature (ie, disease state) will lead to death, there is no obligation to keep fighting it.

ICXC NIKA

Two cases:

Case 1: Bob has a terminal illness and doesn’t want to expend resources to fight what is likely a losing battle. He commits suicide.

Case 2: Steve has a terminal illness and doesn’t want to expend resources to fight what is likely a losing battle. He checks into a hospice and self-administers morphine “to relieve his pain” until he dies.

The only difference I see is that Steve took longer to accomplish his goal.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Two cases:

Case 1: Bob has a terminal illness and doesn’t want to expend resources to fight what is likely a losing battle. He commits suicide.

Case 2: Steve has a terminal illness and doesn’t want to expend resources to fight what is likely a losing battle. He checks into a hospice and self-administers morphine “to relieve his pain” until he dies.

The only difference I see is that Steve took longer to accomplish his goal.

Why is “to relieve his pain” in quotes? I didn’t know you could self-administer morphine and I don’t understand, is he doing it for some other reason?

Anyway, the difference is that Bob wants to escape his suffering and take control of his dying. Steve accepts his dying and gives God a chance to work and heal or take him quickly or do whatever. He lets go. He lets God. He accepts his suffering. And believe me, even if pain is managed, dying of some cancers is a horrific experience. Took my stepmother years to get over watching my Dad die.

 

[cornbread_r2]

Why is “to relieve his pain” in quotes? I didn’t know you could self-administer morphine and I don’t understand, is he doing it for some other reason?

Anyway, the difference is that Bob wants to escape his suffering and take control of his dying. Steve accepts his dying and gives God a chance to work and heal or take him quickly or do whatever. He lets go. He lets God. He accepts his suffering. And believe me, even if pain is managed, dying of some cancers is a horrific experience. Took my stepmother years to get over watching my Dad die.

It is my understanding that once someone reaches a certain point in their illness a patient is sometimes given the option of self-administering morphine. Though doctors cannot legally allow this with the intention of assisting the patient in committing suicide, many know that, in fact, death will result. I believe the term is soft or slow-euthanasia.

My father was given that option in a Catholic hospital and he hit that button until he died. Some here might want to condemn him for that, but they wouldn’t want to do so in my presence.

 

[thistle]

Two cases:

Case 1: Bob has a terminal illness and doesn’t want to expend resources to fight what is likely a losing battle. He commits suicide.

Case 2: Steve has a terminal illness and doesn’t want to expend resources to fight what is likely a losing battle. He checks into a hospice and self-administers morphine “to relieve his pain” until he dies.

The only difference I see is that Steve took longer to accomplish his goal.

Both of these are suicide and a grave sin.

 

[cornbread_r2]

Both of these are suicide and a grave sin.

Sorry for not being clearer with my example. It was not Steve’s intention to commit suicide. It was his intention to relieve his pain, but everyone, including Steve, knows that there is a better than even chance that he will also die as a result of his actions. Seems like a classic case of double effect to me.

 

[Erik1978]

OK thistle, you’re going to have to explain to me why it is suicide and a grave sin. The person didn’t cause the disease to happen. But I can’t find it anywhere in church teaching that one MUST get treatment for an illness.

 

[thistle]

OK thistle, you’re going to have to explain to me why it is suicide and a grave sin. The person didn’t cause the disease to happen. But I can’t find it anywhere in church teaching that one MUST get treatment for an illness.

I, and I think others, assumed that by self-administering “to relieve the pain” in quotation marks meant the patient was in fact killing himself by overdosing.
However, the poster has now clarified that the patient was only relieving pain. If that is the case, of course it is not suicide.
However, I have to say it seems odd that the patient is the one controlling drug intake.

 

[GEddie]

I, and I think others, assumed that by self-administering “to relieve the pain” in quotation marks meant the patient was in fact killing himself by overdosing.
However, the poster has now clarified that the patient was only relieving pain. If that is the case, of course it is not suicide.
However, I have to say it seems odd that the patient is the one controlling drug intake.

Not so odd, if there is no hope of recovery and mitigating pain is the only goal. Only the patient is primarily aware of the pain.

It’s not as though there were much chance of him developing an addiction at that stage.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Rence]

I, and I think others, assumed that by self-administering “to relieve the pain” in quotation marks meant the patient was in fact killing himself by overdosing.
However, the poster has now clarified that the patient was only relieving pain. If that is the case, of course it is not suicide.
However, I have to say it seems odd that the patient is the one controlling drug intake.

It’s not odd, and it’s not always hospice patients who administer their own pain medications. Patient Controlled Administration pumps (PCA pumps) are set up so that the patient can administer their own pain medication by pressing a button. Many different types of patients can have them. They can have continuous medications along with that dose on demand, or they can have only on-demand. They can be set up with a lockout time or without one.

Sometimes patients can be too ill to even have an intravenous access, so they can get their medication orally under their tongue. Morphine also comes in a liquid that is put under the tongue (Roxanol) and is use a lot for hospice patients. Ativan melts nicely under the tongue. The two together can help hospice patients a lot. The patient can be taught to administer it until they can’t, and then their family can do it for them.

If you think about it, all of us self administer our own medications, even pain medications, unless we are in the hospital, and have to be monitore as part of the care plan.

 

[Julia_Mae]

It is my understanding that once someone reaches a certain point in their illness a patient is sometimes given the option of self-administering morphine. Though doctors cannot legally allow this with the intention of assisting the patient in committing suicide, many know that, in fact, death will result. I believe the term is soft or slow-euthanasia.

My father was given that option in a Catholic hospital and he hit that button until he died. Some here might want to condemn him for that, but they wouldn’t want to do so in my presence.

I read the article which doesn’t sound like what was going on with your dad. Sounds like what happened with my mom, where they have a button, but the machine will only dispense a certain amount to keep the patient from overdosing. After a certain number of hits, the patient is pressing the button, but no more medication is being delivered. In the slow-euthanasia scenario, the patient is in a coma and couldn’t push any buttons, anyway.

I’m sorry for your loss.