Fate of Unbaptized Infants

[Shin]

I think many people are unfamiliar with the full concept of being born, ‘children of wrath’ (Ephesians 2:3) under the domain and authority of the devil due to the choice of Adam and Eve to side with Satan against God originally.

The Roman Ritual has as part of the ‘Baptism for Children’ ritual, an extensive exorcism before the baptism. It is well worth reading.

Excerpts:

The priest thrice breathes softly in the face of the child (each one singly), and follows up the gesture with these words:

Depart from him (her), unclean spirit, and give place to the Holy Spirit, the Advocate.

*With his thumb the priest traces the sign of the cross on the brow and on the breast of the child, saying (to each): *

Receive the sign of the cross on your + brow and on your + heart. Put your whole trust in the heavenly teachings. And lead a life that will truly fit you to be a dwelling place for God.

. . .
Almighty, everlasting God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, look with favor on your servant, N., whom it has pleased you to call to this first step in the faith. Rid him (her) of all inward blindness. Sever all snares of Satan which heretofore bound him (her). Open wide for him (her), Lord, the door to your fatherly love. May the seal of your wisdom so penetrate him (her) as to cast out all tainted and foul inclinations, and let in the fragrance of your lofty teachings. Thus shall he (she) serve you gladly in your Church and grow daily more perfect; through Christ our Lord.

. . .

I cast you out, unclean spirit, in the name of the Father, + and of the Son, + and of the Holy + Spirit. Depart and stay far away from this servant (these servants) of God, N. (N. and N.). For it is the Lord Himself who commands you, accursed and doomed spirit, He who walked on the sea and reached out His hand to Peter as he was sinking. So then, foul fiend, recall the curse that decided your fate once for all. Indeed, pay homage to the living and true God, pay homage to Jesus Christ, His Son, and to the Holy Spirit. Keep far from this servant (these servants) of God, N. (N. and N.), for Jesus Christ, our Lord and God, has freely called him (her) (them) to His holy grace and blessed way and to the waters of baptism.

{Under seal of the cross the child is now given over to the custody of Christ. We recall here the words of the Apocalypse: “Then I saw another angel rising out of the East, carrying the seal of the living God; and he called aloud to the four angels who had been given the power to ravage land and sea: ‘Do no damage to sea or land or trees until we have set the seal of our God upon the foreheads of His servants’” (7.2-3).}

*Now the priest traces the sign of the cross upon the brow of the child (on each one), saying as he does so:
*
Never dare, accursed fiend, to desecrate this seal of the holy + cross which we imprint upon his (her) brow; through Christ our Lord.

All: Amen.

 

[Bix]

Shin~

I believe I understand the point you’re making, but I have misinterpreted posts in the past…

Can you please clarify by giving your thoughts or position in regards to the OPs question? I realize how stupid this makes me appear, however I would rather appear stupid now than assume something. I do understand what you have posted above and the reasons behind the excerpts you posted. Thank you kindly.

God Bless~

 

[Cristiano]

or

They go to hell.

They were conceived in sin and never made a single choice for good and our Lord is just.

---

Of course, we have no idea. I prefer to drop back 10 yards and punt. But if I had to make a guess, I would say, some to heaven, some to hell, just like everybody else.

I think that your logic is quite week. How can you affirm that they were conceived in sin? How can you affirm that they never made a single choice for good?

 

[KateKimmer]

My belief is that they go to Limbo.
Thomas Aquinas was smarter than I am.
Let’s not forget…all humans have original sin on his/her soul.

BUT
this does not mean Hell for an innocent child.
Limbo…happy place, but not quite heaven.

 

[BrJuniper]

It is Dogma that each person is dignified from conception. It is also Dogma that God desires ALL to be United in Love.

There is no Sacrament conferred by The Church which can not be conferred by God on God’s authority. In high school theology this might be termed baptism of blood. (see thief on cross). It is also doctrine that one may, in an emergency, receive the fullness of Grace through intention. Also, if, through no willful action of one’s own, another acts upon you to terminate your life one immediately may become a martyr, even if the killed is unaware of the reason they are being killed.

It is doctrine, and perhaps dogma, that we must always error on the side of Mercy. All these things considered, aborted persons are in heaven, embraced by the love of God. It is also the case that we must Love the mothers of those saints.

 

[TrueLight]

. Also, if, through no willful action of one’s own, another acts upon you to terminate your life one immediately may become a martyr, even if the killed is unaware of the reason they are being killed.
.

Are you still referring to babies or are you saying anyone who is murdered goes to heaven, even if they are not killed for their Christian beliefs? I hope that is not what you are saying. Even as a baby in Catholicism, I KNOW that is not Catholic doctrine.

I think leaving babies to God’s mercy is a safe bet.

 

[Vico]

My belief is that they go to Limbo.
Thomas Aquinas was smarter than I am.
Let’s not forget…all humans have original sin on his/her soul.

BUT
this does not mean Hell for an innocent child.
Limbo…happy place, but not quite heaven.

I read in the old Catholic Encyclopedia that Latin infernus can refer to these four:

1. Place of the damned.
2. Place for those who die in original sin only.
3. Place for souls of the just who died before Christ, awaiting Heaven.
4. Place for the just who die after Christ with remaining temporal punishment.

 

[BrJuniper]

Are you still referring to babies or are you saying anyone who is murdered goes to heaven, even if they are not killed for their Christian beliefs? I hope that is not what you are saying. Even as a baby in Catholicism, I KNOW that is not Catholic doctrine.

I think leaving babies to God’s mercy is a safe bet.

I think I had sufficient qualifiers to indicate intention as the determiner. Murder is not the determiner. As to you question re babies, I think that there is sufficient information available to the public to make it clear that the RCC holds that human life begins at conception, thus making every abortion an act against The Body of the Christ, making those aborted martyrs. Love their mothers, they do.

 

[Jeanne_S]

:

I think leaving babies to God’s mercy is a safe bet.

 

[Evan]

I think I had sufficient qualifiers to indicate intention as the determiner. Murder is not the determiner. As to you question re babies, I think that there is sufficient information available to the public to make it clear that the RCC holds that human life begins at conception, thus making every abortion an act against The Body of the Christ, making those aborted martyrs. Love their mothers, they do.

The RCC holds that we have no information regarding their fate. Therefore we are called to hope that God has decided to lay aside his injunction that baptism is required to enter heaven for these cases.

“As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allows us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.” (#1261)

Aborted babies are not martyrs unless their death occurred in the defense of the faith. I can see no way that would be possible, for they have not yet reached the age of reason.

 

[BrJuniper]

The RCC holds that we have no information regarding their fate. Therefore we are called to hope that God has decided to lay aside his injunction that baptism is required to enter heaven for these cases.

Aborted babies are not martyrs unless their death occurred in the defense of the faith. I can see no way that would be possible, for they have not yet reached the age of reason.

Your position violates the principle of non contradiction.

 

[Evan]

Your position violates the principle of non contradiction.

I made several statements in this thread. I would need to know which aspects of my position violates that principal.

1. I agree with the church that it has not been revealed
2. I have an opinion as to what might happen
3. I stated other theories as to what might happen

So, could you clearly describe how you understand a statement I made and how a contradiction arises. Perhaps I was unclear.

 

[SMHW]

I personally believe that God gives unbaptized infants the same choice that he gives all of us: to chose him or to deny him. Just because they are physically infants doesn’t necessarily mean that their souls will be in an infant state when they face God, (assuming they do eventually face Him.)

But that is my opinion.

The Church entrusts infants to the mercy of God because at this point she does not have a defined doctrine as to what happens to them. We have had numerous theologians who have espoused theories about what happens to unbaptized infants when they die.

But theories are not doctrine.

 

[BrJuniper]

I made several statements in this thread. I would need to know which aspects of my position violates that principal.

1. I agree with the church that it has not been revealed
2. I have an opinion as to what might happen
3. I stated other theories as to what might happen

So, could you clearly describe how you understand a statement I made and how a contradiction arises. Perhaps I was unclear.

See 1. above
If you mean that then you also accept the teaching that when the RCC deems not to promulgate an official position one may hold to any of those available. Know further that this principle gave us ALL ex cathedra promulgations based in the census. When you then go on to say anyone is wrong, misuse of term notwithstanding, you contradict number one. Perhaps you dislike the tradition of the faithful as just as valid as the magisterium?

 

[happymommy]

My belief is that they go to Limbo.
Thomas Aquinas was smarter than I am.
Let’s not forget…all humans have original sin on his/her soul.

BUT
this does not mean Hell for an innocent child.
Limbo…happy place, but not quite heaven.

That’s not good enough for me! I don’t want to think of my miscarried children being in limbo away from God, whether it’s a happy place or not! And I don’t want to think of being in Heaven and not getting to see my children. The thought of getting to see my twins, that I just lost a few weeks ago, in Heaven some day was the only thing getting me through the pain of losing them…now I don’t have that either. I don’t want to live my life in a religion based on me trying to do everything the right way, but in the end it just comes down to hoping that we make it to Heaven.

 

[BrJuniper]

That’s not good enough for me! I don’t want to think of my miscarried children being in limbo away from God, whether it’s a happy place or not! And I don’t want to think of being in Heaven and not getting to see my children. The thought of getting to see my twins, that I just lost a few weeks ago, in Heaven some day was the only thing getting me through the pain of losing them…now I don’t have that either. I don’t want to live my life in a religion based on me trying to do everything the right way, but in the end it just comes down to hoping that we make it to Heaven.

Your child is in heaven because of your intention, by and through the Sacrament, to raise in accordance with the RCC. Thus your intention to baptize as soon as possible was adhered to by God.

For all who hold otherwise…see intent re. Sacrament.

 

[Cider]

or

They go to hell.

They were conceived in sin and never made a single choice for good and our Lord is just.

---

Of course, we have no idea. I prefer to drop back 10 yards and punt. But if I had to make a guess, I would say, some to heaven, some to hell, just like everybody else.

They were conceived in sin?

 

[BrJuniper]

They were conceived in sin?

Pardon my intrusion, but there are those who consider the marriage Sacrament to be the ultimate sin. This comes from the Summa of Aquinas, I think, and indicates misunderstanding of Sacrament. Some believe that consummation is always a sin, mortal if not married venial if married.

 

[Evan]

They were conceived in sin?

That is a quote from Psalm 51 verse 5

Behold, in iniquity was I brought forth, and in sin did my mother conceive me

I was presenting another, contrasting theological tradition.

 

[anp1215]

See 1. above
If you mean that then you also accept the teaching that when the RCC deems not to promulgate an official position one may hold to any of those available. Know further that this principle gave us ALL ex cathedra promulgations based in the census. When you then go on to say anyone is wrong, misuse of term notwithstanding, you contradict number one. Perhaps you dislike the tradition of the faithful as just as valid as the magisterium?

???

That’s not good enough for me! I don’t want to think of my miscarried children being in limbo away from God, whether it’s a happy place or not! And I don’t want to think of being in Heaven and not getting to see my children. The thought of getting to see my twins, that I just lost a few weeks ago, in Heaven some day was the only thing getting me through the pain of losing them…now I don’t have that either. I don’t want to live my life in a religion based on me trying to do everything the right way, but in the end it just comes down to hoping that we make it to Heaven.

The Church entrusts your children into the mercy of GOD. Have faith in GOD. Not any theories people are coming up with here.