Fate of Unbaptized Infants

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Pardon me, I should’ve said ‘declared the death penalty’ earlier. Not quite the right way to put it. 🙂

‘Proposition 6: “Those who claim, that the children of the faithful dying without sacramental baptism will not be saved, are stupid and presumptuous in saying this— Condemned.”’

Pope Martin V, Council of Constance, Session 15, July 6, 1415 A.D.
Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol. 1, p. 422
 
INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION:
THE HOPE OF SALVATION FOR INFANTS
WHO DIE WITHOUT BEING BAPTISED*

[SIGN]103 What has been revealed to us is that** the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of Baptism**. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of Baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament. Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the Church[/SIGN]

They go to heaven.👍
The Church doesn’t teach that unbaptized babies go to heaven. All the statement says above is that they “hope” that they go to heaven. Which is the same as saying we leave them to the mercy of God.

Now considering that babies are below the age of reason, wouldn’t it have been easy for the Church to say since the beginning of time that babies who have not been baptized through no fault of their own automatically go to heaven? But she didn’t. Which proves this issue is a lot more complicated.

Baptism is required for salvation. But then again, God is not bound by the sacraments.
 
They go to heaven, period, end of discussion, moderator, end this ridiculous thread.

wick
Sorry, as others have shown, all we can do is Hope.

To do anything else is to pretty much raise abortion to the level of a Sacrament, in that it assures the ‘recepient’ eternal salvation.

Is that what you really want to claim?
 
**Baltimore Catechism No. 3

**Q. 632. Where will persons go who – such as infants – have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism?

A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the common belief they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free from suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven.
 
**Baltimore Catechism No. 3

**Q. 632. Where will persons go who – such as infants – have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism?

A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the common belief they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free from suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven.
We have a new Catechism, which states:
1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

It is wrong to quote the Baltimore Catechism which states that unbaptized children cannot enter Heaven. The Church now makes no such claim.
 
We have a new Catechism, which states:
1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

It is wrong to quote the Baltimore Catechism which states that unbaptized children cannot enter Heaven. The Church now makes no such claim.
The Baltimore Catechism is an approved teaching of the Magisterium, so it is not wrong to quote it. There is a distinction that is often missed: there is more than the two states of Heaven and Hell (Gehenna), there are also other states (example Purgatory). There is more than salvation to our futures, there is also greater glory for those that have great good works, and lesser glory for those that have lesser good works. From the Vatican, under Greek Fathers we read some of the logic that has been used:“Pseudo-Athanasios says clearly that an unbaptised person cannot enter the Kingdom of God. He also asserts that unbaptised children will not enter the Kingdom, but neither will they be lost, for they have not sinned.”
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html
 
INTERNATIONAL THEOLOGICAL COMMISSION:
THE HOPE OF SALVATION FOR INFANTS
WHO DIE WITHOUT BEING BAPTISED*

[sign]103 What has been revealed to us is that** the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of Baptism**. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of Baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament. Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to baptize them into the faith and life of the Church[/sign]

They go to heaven.👍
No, I am sorry, we hope they do but we just don’t know.

An regards to Limbo: Limbo was never an official teaching of the Church, only speculation on the part of theologians.

In 2007 Pope Benedict XVI approved the publication of “Hope of Salvation For Infants Who Die Without Being Baptized”: vatican.va/roman_curia/co…nfants_en.html

While Section 103 is good, Section 102 is better for this discussion:102. Within the hope that the Church bears for the whole of humanity and wants to proclaim afresh to the world of today, is there a hope for the salvation of infants who die without Baptism? We have carefully re-considered this complex question, with gratitude and respect for the responses that have been given through the history of the Church, but also with an awareness that it falls to us to give a coherent response for today. Reflecting within the one tradition of faith that unites the Church through the ages, and relying utterly on the guidance of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus promised would lead his followers “into all the truth” (Jn 16:13), we have sought to read the signs of the times and to interpret them in the light of the Gospel. Our conclusion is that the many factors that we have considered above give serious theological and liturgical grounds for hope that unbaptised infants who die will be saved and enjoy the Beatific Vision. We emphasise that these are reasons for prayerful hope, rather than grounds for sure knowledge. There is much that simply has not been revealed to us (cf. Jn 16:12). We live by faith and hope in the God of mercy and love who has been revealed to us in Christ, and the Spirit moves us to pray in constant thankfulness and joy (cf. 1 Thess 5:18).
This publication, by the way, is the reference for the section of the Catechism. Being included in the Catechism kind of ends a lot of speculation.

We can hope and pray that they go to Heaven (and I personally think that they do) but the only thing the Church says is that we cannot know for sure and must leave it up to God. If that is what the Church teaches, why is it so difficult to accept?
 
They go to heaven, period, end of discussion, moderator, end this ridiculous thread.wick
No, I’m sorry, we can hope that they do but we don’t know for certain what happens to them.

I think the thread has gone as deep as it is going though.
 
Actually, forgive me, being a footnote in one of the catechisms doesn’t give a document any authority, it’s merely a reference to a document for further information.

And the International Theological Commission has no magisterial authority. It’s a purely advisory body, in itself as authoritative as ‘America’ the Jesuit magazine, the Reporter, the Register, etc.

Limbo is directly referenced in a number of catechisms. The Baltimore Catechism, the Catechism of Christian Doctrine, the Douay Catechism, the Catechism of Pope St. Pius X, to name some of them.

‘Q. Where do infants go who die without baptism?
A. Infants who die without baptism go to Limbo, where they do not enjoy the sight of God but also do not suffer, this is because having original sin and this alone they do not merit Heaven but neither do they merit purgatory or Hell.’
  • Catechism of Christian Doctrine
‘The state of grace is absolutely necessary for salvation: Without it supernatural happiness, the beatific vision of God, cannot be attained. In an adult an act of love may suffice to obtain him sanctifying grace and so supply for the lack of baptism; to the child still unborn or newly born this way is not open.’

Pope Pius XII, Allocution to Italian Midwives
 
Did ANYONE pay attention to any of the previous posters before thinking what you typed??? I, in no way believe you are correct. However, we are all entitled to how we view things. Posting charitably and with love, kindness and respect of moral dignity especially to those who posted they have just lost children… I’m ashamed for even contributing at this point in any part of this thread.

However, it appears most everyone is more concerned with being right or winning a debate than treating others with a little decency and respect. Top notch - on Good Friday to boot! Oh, yeah, but don’t mention the thief on the cross - surely God will save him, but not an innocent.

Happy Easter… My goodness, how sad.
 
Before everyone flames me, I want to make it clear that I am NOT saying an unbaptized baby goes to HELL.

I am simply saying I happen to believe in the idea or theory of Limbo and I beleive Baptism is necessary for Salvation.

Jesus himself was baptized. That speak volumes.
The thief on the cross was not.
 
The Church doesn’t teach that unbaptized babies go to heaven. All the statement says above is that they “hope” that they go to heaven. Which is the same as saying we leave them to the mercy of God.

Now considering that babies are below the age of reason, wouldn’t it have been easy for the Church to say since the beginning of time that babies who have not been baptized through no fault of their own automatically go to heaven? But she didn’t. Which proves this issue is a lot more complicated.

Baptism is required for salvation. But then again, God is not bound by the sacraments.
The Bible implies it as it does the Trinity.

Baptism is what we are required to do in normal circumstances.
 
Actually, forgive me, being a footnote in one of the catechisms doesn’t give a document any authority, it’s merely a reference to a document for further information.

And the International Theological Commission has no magisterial authority. It’s a purely advisory body, in itself as authoritative as ‘America’ the Jesuit magazine, the Reporter, the Register, etc.
You don’t need to ask forgiveness, dialogue is what the forum is about. 😉

Two points. First, while the Theological Commission has no magisterial authority, this particular study was approved for publication by Pope Benedict XVI.
This present text was approved in forma specifica by the members of the Commission, and was subsequently submitted to its President, Cardinal William Levada who, upon receiving the approval of the Holy father in an audience granted on January 19, 2007, approved the text for publication.
Second, Section 1261 of the Catechism is taken *verbatim *from the Theological Commission document, which is why it is referenced:
1261 As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: “Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,” allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.
I don’t recall any article from the Jesuit Magazine, The Reporter or the Register that is included as a section of the Catechism.

As to Limbo, yes it is referenced in former Catechisms however the Theological Institute study spoke to that as well:
3. The idea of Limbo, which the Church has used for many centuries to designate the destiny of infants who die without Baptism, has no clear foundation in revelation, even though it has long been used in traditional theological teaching. Moreover, the notion that infants who die without Baptism are deprived of the beatific vision, which has for so long been regarded as the common doctrine of the Church, gives rise to numerous pastoral problems, so much so that many pastors of souls have asked for a deeper reflection on the ways of salvation. The necessary reconsideration of the theological issues cannot ignore the tragic consequences of original sin. Original sin implies a state of separation from Christ, and that excludes the possibility of the vision of God for those who die in that state.
The Catechism clearly states that we do not know for certain the fate of the unbaptized infants. Where they go (a state of being called Limbo or the beatific vision) is a matter we can debate over a beer but will never know for sure until we ask God.
 
The thief on the cross was not.
The thief, like St. Joseph and St. John the Baptist, all died before the requirement of Baptism was placed upon the Church at the Great Commission.

They were all saved under the Old Covenant, not the New.
 
The thief, like St. Joseph and St. John the Baptist, all died before the requirement of Baptism was placed upon the Church at the Great Commission.

They were all saved under the Old Covenant, not the New.
So God can’t save or show mercy on whomever He sees fit? God is not the last word regarding salvation???
 
KateKimmer;9149592:
The parts that make up the Trinity are found in the Bible.
  1. There is one God ( in the Bible many times)
  2. Jesus is God and spoke of God the Father.
Thomas spoke to Jesus , “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28)

Peter and Paul spoke of Jesus as “our God and Savior” (2 Pet. 1:1) (Tit. 2:13).

Also, read John 17:1-27.
  1. The Holy Spirit is God.
    Old Testament- Holy Spirit as God at work in the world.
John 14-16 God sending the Holy Spirit.

Take these add them together… Three parts or elements of God equalling the Trinity.

The Bible can actually be a good reference.
the actual TERM “trinity” is not in the bible. The importance of baptism IS.
I did not make up the term original sin. And technically, that phrase is not in the bible either.
 
So God can’t save or show mercy on whomever He sees fit? God is not the last word regarding salvation???
no one is saying the unbaptized baby is going to hell. He/she will go to a
peaceful, happy realm of heaven.

I think people also need to realize that there are many people of adult age and teenage
age that are NOT baptized. The Baptist denomination does not baptize until the person
wishes for it. In other words, NO infant baptism.
 
no one is saying the unbaptized baby is going to hell. He/she will go to a
peaceful, happy realm of heaven.

I think people also need to realize that there are many people of adult age and teenage
age that are NOT baptized. The Baptist denomination does not baptize until the person
wishes for it. In other words, NO infant baptism.
Actually, someone did mention it earlier… The thread title was asking specifically about unbaptized babies. We have many members in the prayer intentions threads going through these losses and miscarriages and having questions- which is why it would have been best to stick to unbaptized babies and perhaps those who wish to debate further points should in all charity- start another thread. That’s all.

No one was implying baptizing isn’t of upmost importance. They were questioning specifically about babies without the opportunity.

God Bless~
 
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