Father catholics are against contraception

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i just read a post on the ask an apologist form were a woman was asking about the morality of oral sex with her husband. father vincent serpa responded saying that as long as it ended in intercourse it was alright. he also went on to say that as long as it was just her non catholic husband who was using a contraceptive but not her then that was ok too. but she should try to tell him its wrong. (check it out if you want it was oct 19 i think)
what? that makes no sense.
i wrote something on that page about it, but it seems that not everything gets posted and i really want some feedback on this so im posting here too.

if one person is contracepting, they are both contracepting. contraception is evil whether you believe is or not. thats how evil works. we cannot stand by and participate in evil just because anothers conscience had been so wounded and twisted by sin that he cannot perceive the horror an evil of such an act

also, i do not understand how oral sex as long as it ends in intercourse can be accepted. it is a perverse counterfeit of true self giving. its a lustful act. not self giving. not intimate. its degrading from our true dignity in God.
and im trying not to get too graphic but for those who follow, where would the line be drawn then as a perversity from this sacrament of love if oral sex were accepted.

am i wrong?
 
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spotty:
i just read a post on the ask an apologist form were a woman was asking about the morality of oral sex with her husband.

also, i do not understand how oral sex as long as it ends in intercourse can be accepted. it is a perverse counterfeit of true self giving. its a lustful act. not self giving. not intimate. its degrading from our true dignity in God.
am i wrong?
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Over 20 years ago I listened to a priest in a sermon condemn genetial oral sex as perverse, …I agree, for me it’s disgusting, and degrading IMHO a sin of the flesh.
Others may not agree, but I follow my conscience, and my conscience says it’s wrong.
 
Hello,

To your question about one spouse using birth control, I would say that each individual has free will. They can choose to follow God’s plan or not. No one can make that decision for them, not even their spouse. Therefore, a spouse is not responsible for the sin of the other spouse, even contraception. However, the spouse is responsible for helping to get the other spouse to heaven, so it is important to try to help the other spouse to understand why contraceptives are sinful.

As far as oral sex goes, some people desire to do that as a form of foreplay. Others do not. The priest merely said there is nothing morally wrong with it as long as it is part of the entire sex act.

God bless.
 
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spotty:
i just read a post on the ask an apologist form were a woman was asking about the morality of oral sex with her husband. father vincent serpa responded saying that as long as it ended in intercourse it was alright. he also went on to say that as long as it was just her non catholic husband who was using a contraceptive but not her then that was ok too. but she should try to tell him its wrong. (check it out if you want it was oct 19 i think)
what? that makes no sense.
i wrote something on that page about it, but it seems that not everything gets posted and i really want some feedback on this so im posting here too.

if one person is contracepting, they are both contracepting. contraception is evil whether you believe is or not. thats how evil works. we cannot stand by and participate in evil just because anothers conscience had been so wounded and twisted by sin that he cannot perceive the horror an evil of such an act

also, i do not understand how oral sex as long as it ends in intercourse can be accepted. it is a perverse counterfeit of true self giving. its a lustful act. not self giving. not intimate. its degrading from our true dignity in God.
and im trying not to get too graphic but for those who follow, where would the line be drawn then as a perversity from this sacrament of love if oral sex were accepted.

am i wrong?
Click to expand...
Please correct me if I am wrong…*Roman Catholicism does not have an official stance on oral sex. Sex is allowable when a man and woman are married and there is an opportunity for conception. The use of oral sex in foreplay is generally permissible if regular intercourse is followed by it. *
***God created sex so it is pleasurable. He also expects us to be responsible in how we use sex. All things that lead up to intercourse should be used with moderation. Too much of a good thing can be bad. Use common sense and remember sex has two purposes: to bring a husband and wife closer and to create human life. ***
There is no place in Church teaching that says oral sex is degrading …so to each his own!
 
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spotty:
i just read a post on the ask an apologist form were a woman was asking about the morality of oral sex with her husband. father vincent serpa responded saying that as long as it ended in intercourse it was alright. he also went on to say that as long as it was just her non catholic husband who was using a contraceptive but not her then that was ok too. but she should try to tell him its wrong. (check it out if you want it was oct 19 i think)
what? that makes no sense.
i wrote something on that page about it, but it seems that not everything gets posted and i really want some feedback on this so im posting here too.

if one person is contracepting, they are both contracepting. contraception is evil whether you believe is or not. thats how evil works. we cannot stand by and participate in evil just because anothers conscience had been so wounded and twisted by sin that he cannot perceive the horror an evil of such an act

also, i do not understand how oral sex as long as it ends in intercourse can be accepted. it is a perverse counterfeit of true self giving. its a lustful act. not self giving. not intimate. its degrading from our true dignity in God.
and im trying not to get too graphic but for those who follow, where would the line be drawn then as a perversity from this sacrament of love if oral sex were accepted.

am i wrong?
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You bring up some interesting concerns.

As for oral genital stimulation it would seem the Church says it is OK as long as the act ends in vaginal intercourse. That assumes both people consent. If one rejects that it ought not be done.

I have read different things with regard to anal genital stimulation. It seems all agree the act must end in vaginal intercourse, but some say even the act of stimulation in this manner is base and degrading.

Regarding one spouse contracepting it would seem as long as one does not intend to commit the sin, and tells the other from time to time it is wrong, then one may licitly participate.

One would not be participating in evil as the intention is not there and one is not consenting to sin.
 
that is such a lie. one the worst." to each his own." no.

dont you see that you are participating in the contraception. how could you not be. one cannot contracept. it takes two

i want to tell a little story. there was boy who hated abortion all growing up. he knew it was murder. the boy met a girl fell in love and started having sex. one day they talk about what would happen if she got pregnant. girl says oh itll be ok ill just get an abortion. boy is shocked. what? abortion? no.
it was just a short conversation and girl leaves like evrythings fine.
the boy is alone now in his bed and he just starts crying his eyes out. the boy realizes (almost it seemed to be a realization from God) that if he has sex with her again knowing that she will kill their child if conceived, then if a baby is conceived and killed, he is just as responsible if not more for that childs death. it would be like seeing your child about to drink a bottle of poison but you dont want to get up from what youre doing to stop him. sure technically the poison killed him
boy is crying because he realizes all this but he cant give it up. he cant get up. hes a slave, a slave to sin. satan is his master

these subjects are related in the sense that even if we (i mean the boy and the girl) were married and she told him that she would have an abortion, he would still be guilty of that childs death. so it the same with contraception. a spouse cannot participate in the objectification of the other sex by allowing themselves to be objectified.

is this still not clear. or can anyone argue against it
 
does anyone not see that they (both) are consenting to sin by allowing it take place. make no mistake this is not something that is beyond our control.
 
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spotty:
that is such a lie. one the worst." to each his own." no.

dont you see that you are participating in the contraception. how could you not be. one cannot contracept. it takes two
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Actually, it does not.

A person’s sin, is just that, personal. One person performing a sinful act does not incur sin on anothers soul.

The obligation exists for the ‘offended party’, the non contracepting spouse, to convince her partner of the sinful nature, but it remains that one spouse may be correctly open to life and the willing, complete offering of oneself in the Marital Act (as the Church intends) and have the other partner not be open to life.

It is the openness to life, and the willingness to give oneself completely in the Marital Act that defines a morally pure Marital Act. It is certainly possible that one spouse may retain those, while their spouse reject it.

It is the willful rejection of both those that are sinful.
 
and again in regards to oral, for those who do not see the perversity of it from the true sacrament of love. i challenge you. for whatever reasoning you would use for rationalizing the legitimacy of oral would it not also follow perfectly to rational as fix said, anal stimulation?
does that throw up some red flags for anyone as being a perversity or disfigurement from Gods plan of sexual union?
 
The Fr. was correct on both points. Oral sex as foreplay is acceptable. For example the church does not state it is morally wrong to “kiss” your spouse on the ear, elbow or toes, it doesn’t say it morally wrong to “kiss” you spouse in other places. As long as intimacy ends in vaginal intercourse.

Now if the husband chooses to use a condom that is his sin. It is not his wife’s sin if he uses a condom unless she encourages it or agrees with it. As long as the wife isn’t using any contraceptive measures she is not responsible for the will of her husband.
 
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spotty:
and again in regards to oral, for those who do not see the perversity of it from the true sacrament of love. i challenge you. for whatever reasoning you would use for rationalizing the legitimacy of oral would it not also follow perfectly to rational as fix said, anal stimulation?
does that throw up some red flags for anyone as being a perversity or disfigurement from Gods plan of sexual union?
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I challenge you to find proof that it is wrong.
 
how is the spouse being open? lets say a woman for instance, when she allows here husband to objectify her.
the wife is allowing this. or vice vera.
SIN EFFECTS EVERYONE!!! all sin. if the other spouse is really against contraception they will have no part of contraception.

for the same reason if i am really truly against abortion, i will have no part in a marriage with a woman who would kill our child knowing that she would do it. its the same and maybe thats the birth control. forget condoms. now were talking about a man who is against birth control but the woman is not. but the womans birth control is abortion.
do you not think either that the “faithful” man or woman would fall into it was well. only one spouse usually is practicing a birth control. to say that i dont like it but oh well i like having sex and so does my husband and i dont want to give up sex.
guess what youre in lust
 
“It is important to be able to distinguish when something is objectively wrong, but perhaps not sinful, and when something is sinful because of the intention of the individual. (knowledge and consent vs. ignorance or accident)” Taken from Sign’s of God’s Love

For instance not, knowing her husbands heart, we cannot judge whether or not he is sinning, only that his actions are sinful.

As for the wife, I think intent is important, and can make EITHER (have sex with him, or not) of her choices sinful. I have no idea the situation of the wife who posted the question, and did not read her post, so I couldn’t possibly comment on her situation.

This is why it is important to maintain an ongoing prayerful relationship with Our Lord as opposed to blindly following rules. We must allow Him to bring us to a deeper understanding of these rules and how they apply to ourselves and other’s as UNIQUE individuals.

We must always seek the LOVING choice as opposed to the SELFISH choice. These can vary and interchange. It may be wrong for me to withold or continue to have sex from my husband, if I am doing it for the WRONG reasons. It may be right with right reasons. Because the action of “sex with one’s husband” is not OBJECTIVELY wrong, it would have to depend on the intent.

The wife, with her knowledge of her husband’s unique personality, andher willingness to search deep within herself, all under prayerful guidance from the Holy Spirit, would need to decide WHICH is the loving choice. And who is she serving (herself, God?).

I think that in a complicated situation like that, IF the loving choice was to continue relations with her husband, it would be NECESSARY to use NFP and abstain from relations during the fertile period. (So as not to contribute to the sin of the EFFECTS of the contraception) This makes his contraception use practically useless. His intent of contraception use is to prevent pregnancy, while receiving the pleasure. During her fertile period is the only time conception can occur. She will be “unavailable” during this time. All the while praying for his conversion of course!!😃
 
From Ana: I think that in a complicated situation like that, IF the loving choice was to continue relations with her husband, it would be prudent to use NFP and abstain from relations during the fertile period. (So as not to contribute to the sin of the EFFECTS of the contraception) This makes his contraception use practically useless. His intent of contraception use is to prevent pregnancy, while receiving the pleasure. During her fertile period is the only time conception can occur. She will be “unavailable” during this time. All the while praying for his conversion of course!!😃
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What good advice. It makes it clear that she is not cooperating/condoning her husband’s choice. And it removes the “punishment” aspect which is really not her role but God’s role. This advice can be applied in so many ways when we see weakness in others, not just regarding contraception.
 
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spotty:
does anyone not see that they (both) are consenting to sin by allowing it take place. make no mistake this is not something that is beyond our control.
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Both are not consenting to sin. One is consenting to the marital embrace and the other is contracepting. Mortal sin requires one to consent and the non contracepting spouse not only does not consent, but informs the other that contracepting it is wrong.
 
here is a terrific book that is written in Q and A format: read “THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT SEX AND MARRIAGE” by CHRISTOPHER WEST. it will answer all your questions
 
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spotty:
and again in regards to oral, for those who do not see the perversity of it from the true sacrament of love. i challenge you. for whatever reasoning you would use for rationalizing the legitimacy of oral would it not also follow perfectly to rational as fix said, anal stimulation?
does that throw up some red flags for anyone as being a perversity or disfigurement from Gods plan of sexual union?
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Neither the priest nor I “rationalize” oral sex. Someone who rationalizes an action, tries to justify something he or she is doing to feel better about that action. Neither the priest nor I (I’m married) have oral sex.

While I understand your own personal opposition to oral sex, I do not understand why you believe you are now the moral authority on the subject. Are you opposed to stimulation/touching as well? Should the marriage act be free from all foreplay?
 
i was just challenged in response to my challenge as to why anal sex is right to explain why is it wrong. bare in mind this is even if it ends in intercourse and is within marriage
so first things have a purpose. argument of design. basically same principalities. its a straight up mockery of life. think of the act hey it doesnt matter if thats where the whole sexual act is gonna take place. its a mockery of it. a few seconds of it is a mockery. same applies for oral. whether they think its degrading or not or a mockery or not it is in the eyes of God.
for your heart to enjoy such an act, allowing it to be done… youre not pure. im sorry you need healing. i know because i did and do. i see so much differently… i really am starting to love everyone and see them in their true dignity as children of God. the sacraments heal!!! its all true! literally you become a new person in Christ
 
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spotty:
i was just challenged in response to my challenge as to why anal sex is right to explain why is it wrong.
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It’s wrong b/c it’s unhealthy.
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spotty:
same applies for oral. whether they think its degrading or not or a mockery or not it is in the eyes of God.
for your heart to enjoy such an act, allowing it to be done…
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Where is your proof?
 
i think it comes down to the true church teaching. the teaching states you may have oral sex as long its foreplay that results in intercourse. the same for anal sex but remember that anal sex can be dangerous and may harm your partner.ok i’ll say it for the 4th time today. Christopher West Book - The Good News About Sex and Marriage
 
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