Father catholics are against contraception

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you know elizabethanne im not trying to be proud of myself as some moral authority. i believe God. i believe in the catholic faith. im trying to love God and follow Him. if this is true of me or anyone we have to do our best not to be indifferent to HIm and His law. we have to try and understand it as best we can and uphold it and share it. that is why “to each his own” is a lie of satan. am i my brothers keeper? the answer is yes
 
As a side note I think it is helpful to use our terms clearly. When we say oral sex or anal sex we intend to mean stimulation only. So, as an example, oral sex is understood to mean stimulation with the intent to have the marital embrace.
 
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spotty:
you know elizabethanne im not trying to be proud of myself as some moral authority. i believe God. i believe in the catholic faith. im trying to love God and follow Him. if this is true of me or anyone we have to do our best not to be indifferent to HIm and His law. we have to try and understand it as best we can and uphold it and share it. that is why “to each his own” is a lie of satan. am i my brothers keeper? the answer is yes
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On a personal level I agree with you that the acts we speak of here are not apppealing, but that is no proof the Church has prohibited them. Can you give us proof that the Church has said they are illicit?
 
I do not see where oral sex can be OBJECTIVELY sinful, because the Church has not said so, through the Bible or Tradition.

Spotty, since the Church has not spoken, you must certainly follow your consience and if you think it is sinful, than in YOUR CASE, it is. Perhaps you are in need of more purification before being able to experience this freedom in LOVE. But do not assume all are bound by YOUR consience. Your consience is custom made for where YOU are right now on your spiritual walk. Others may be at a different part on thier journey, and have the grace to FREELY enjoy oral sex, while others are still BOUND by lust. Of course their conscience would dictate … STAY AWAY … it is for their good. Perhaps they are in need of more purification, to be able to experience this freedom in LOVE, as opposed to lust.
 
stated from Wests book “your not going to find an official Magisterial statement adddressing the issue directly”.
 
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spotty:
where does the church say that oral and anal sex is alright.
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The Church has said they are both wrong. We are talking about stimulation prior to marital embrace.
 
i have never heard before today any catholic who while at the same time defending the sanctity of marriage and sex also defended a counterfeit of sex. but only as a prelude right?

so my answer in response of definitive church teaching is im gonna go find out right now.
 
i dont know what you mean fix. did they say it was alright then if it led to sex
 
Here is the examination of conscience by one good priest:

6. You shall not commit adultery.
  • Adultery
  • Fornication (intercourse prior to marriage)
  • Masturbation or other impure acts with self
  • Homosexual acts
  • Using a contraceptive
  • Dressing or acting in a manner intended to cause arousal in another (spouses excepted)
  • Kissing or touching another passionately for the purpose of arousal (spouses excepted)
  • Allowing another to kiss or touch you in a sexual manner (spouses excepted)
  • Intentionally causing a sexual climax outside of intercourse
  • Onanism, i.e. intentional withdrawal and non-vaginal ejaculation
  • Flagrant immodesty in dress
  • Bestiality (sexual acts with animals)
    -** Oral Sex (oral stimulation permitted as foreplay in marriage - ejaculation must be vaginal)
    • Anal sex or other degrading sex practices**
  • Prostitution
  • Rape
  • In-vitro fertilization or artificial insemination
  • Surrogate motherhood
  • “Selective reduction” of babies in the womb
  • Types of fertility testing that involve immoral acts
  • Involvement in or support of human cloning
  • Willful divorce or desertion
  • Incest
  • Polygamy or polyandry (many wives/husbands)
  • Cohabitation prior to marriage
  • Destroying the innocence of another by seducing or introducing them to immorality
  • Lust in the heart (“if I could I would”)
  • “Swinging” or wife swapping
  • Transvestitism or cross dressing
    catholicparents.org/oxcart/examination.html
I have no specific documents to prove a position in either direction.
 
remember that most importantly married couples engage in intercourse sex because they are giving themselves to one another and are leaving the chance that the Holy Spirit could work a new life in them. amen
 
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spotty:
i dont know what you mean fix. did they say it was alright then if it led to sex
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I was implying oral-genital or anal-genital stimulation, not climax, before the marital embrace was deemed licit by some priests. I have no proof either way.
 
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spotty:
if this is true of me or anyone we have to do our best not to be indifferent to HIm and His law. we have to try and understand it as best we can and uphold it and share it. that is why “to each his own” is a lie of satan. am i my brothers keeper? the answer is yes
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“For why should my freedom be determined by someone else’s conscience? If I partake thankfully, why am I reviled over that which I give thanks.” ROMANS 10: 29,30

Where the Church hasn’t spoken we are bound by our OWN consciences. Which as I said before are as unique as a fingerprint. And the sinfullness would depend on the intent, as it has not been stated as objectively wrong. Your conscience serves as a guide to help you on your journey. If you are not able to participate in oral sex without sin, than it makes all the sense in the world why your conscience would reject it. It is doing it’s job!!

But you cannot assume that what is sinful for you is sinful for all. Please read Saint Paul’s words in ROMANS ch.8, 9, and 10. (esp.10). The Church has long recognized the wisdom of Paul’s method in theological reflection of a moral dilemma. Although the problem is dated, the guidelines for moral decisions that he offers are of lasting value. I think things this will help you.
 
i think that if you are struggeling with anything ask the Lord for help. Also talk to a priest about the matter. God Bless You All
 
Some thoughts:
**Oral sex is wrong ** as the mouth is a Holy portal through which Our life giving Lord has chosen as the entry point to His Temple, our body. Our life giving food and water also enters here.
Therefore I believe the mouth should be kept holy and used only for life giving purposes. Not for potentially life taking uses such as the Dragon of Revelations waits for the issue of the womb that it might be gobbled up. I believe the mouth has a special role as it is stated that a man will be judged for every word that he has uttered. (No mention, that I know of, for every act,)
**Not your sin if you protest first. **
I cannot give the source but I believe it is Biblical, (someone, feel free to help here.), that states that if a woman is raped in the country side far from help the sin is not hers, but if she is raped within yelling distance of help, in the city, she shares the blame.
Contra means contrary or opposed to, ception means life giving,
Contraception means contary to life. Something must die! To allow the sperm to die is contrary to allowing life to flourish and therefore is a sin. The commandment Thou Shalt not kill, does not have a list of exceptions attached including one which says unless my husband makes me!
Just my thoughts for what they are worth.
 
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John-the-Seeker:
Some thoughts:
**Oral sex is wrong **as the mouth is a Holy portal through which Our life giving Lord has chosen as the entry point to His Temple, our body. Our life giving food and water also enters here.
Therefore I believe the mouth should be kept holy and used only for life giving purposes. Not for potentially life taking uses such as the Dragon of Revelations waits for the issue of the womb that it might be gobbled up. I believe the mouth has a special role as it is stated that a man will be judged for every word that he has uttered. (No mention, that I know of, for every act,)
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Well, then you better not use any tongue when you kiss becuase that’s a sexual act as well.
 
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spotty:
where does the church say that oral and anal sex is alright.
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I think the problem here may be attaching the word “sex” with oral (and anal).
This seems to imply to you that climax is acheived.
This is NOT so.
Anymore than using the term “kissing sex” or “flirting sex.”
Both are forms of foreplay building up to natural intercourse.
The SAME is true for what is commonly termed oral “sex.”
To some this may indeed be an entire act itself with the goal of climaxing from it.
BUT - to faithful Catholics, it is simply another form of foreplay and an action intended to stimulate your spouse as part of the buildup to natural intercourse.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this but simply a matter of preference. If either spouse is opposed to it - of course the other must respect that as with anything encompassing the marital embrace.

The thing I would question about anal “stimulation” is - what is it stimulating? (Sorry for being naive here! 😦 )
In genital (oral) stimulation it is obviously helping prepare the spouse’s body for natural intercourse.
Anal is not natural intercourse.
 
I fear I am treading into deep water…a couple of observations.
  1. Fix listed in post #30 an examination of conscience that includes “Intentionally causing a sexual climax outside of intercourse.” I may not have a correctly Catholic-formed conscience but, I would imagine the Church’s definition of intercourse excludes the use of condoms. Therefore, both spouses are intentionally causing sexual climax outside of intercourse.
  2. I think this couple has a much bigger problem than whether or not the wife is committing a sin when her husband uses a condom. If the two-fold purpose of the “marital embrace” is procreative AND unitive, they fail on both counts when the husband uses a condom. Contracepted sex is not unitive sex.
 
One more observation/questions.

Fr. Serpa said that the she must attempt to educate her contracepting spouse on the sinfulness of his actions. Would her withholding sex from him be sinful if she saw this as the only way to lead her husband from sin?
 
good question benton… i know Christopher West writes “the ultimate goal in marriage is to lead one another to heaven” continued prayer is important
 
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