Father catholics are against contraception

[Siena]

Thank you all for your kind words, and prayers.

I just really felt the need to share my story here, I’ve seen too many threads where there are only 2 opinions- Those who think anything within 5 miles of contraception is a “going straight to hell” sin for all involved, no matter what the circumstances, and those who think “what’s the big deal?” in their own circumstance.

I think there are quite a few people who fall under my catagory- but it is not something we generally want to talk about with 25,000 virtual “strangers”

 

[LittleDeb]

Siena:

I pray that good may come of our embrace, even though it is not done with God’s plan. My DH HONESTLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND! He thinks the church does not “belong in our bedroom”. The physical aspect is “normal”, our bodies react iin the “normal” way. (With the exception of the barrier, of course),

It is the emotional aspect that is not. I “feel” used. I “feel” that I cannot share my heart with him. If I bring this up- he gets defensive. So I can’t, and he then “thinks” that this is ok.

You final thoughts are right on, I am reaping what I have sown.

You are bearing this cross in an amazing way. My heart and respect go out to you!

As a piece of unsolicited advice from one of the 25,000 “strangers,” here goes:

When I give talks on NFP and hear from those that “The Church does not belong in our bedroom,” I usually say this: The Church doesn’t want to be in your bedroom. But, The Church has a responsibility to help you have a properly formed conscience when you walk into your bedroom.

Unsolicited :twocents: and maybe you have already said it but I thought I would share anyway.

Bless you and your husband in your journey.

 

[Eireann]

John-the-Seeker:

Some thoughts:
**Oral sex is wrong ** as the mouth is a Holy portal through which Our life giving Lord has chosen as the entry point to His Temple, our body. Our life giving food and water also enters here.
Therefore I believe the mouth should be kept holy and used only for life giving purposes. Not for potentially life taking uses such as the Dragon of Revelations waits for the issue of the womb that it might be gobbled up. I believe the mouth has a special role as it is stated that a man will be judged for every word that he has uttered. (No mention, that I know of, for every act,)
**Not your sin if you protest first. **

I agree with you, my conscience says it’s wrong so I don’t do it, I wouldn’t be happy receiving the Host with this in mind,I have to listen to my conscience.

 

[Eireann]

wabrams:

Well, then you better not use any tongue when you kiss becuase that’s a sexual act as well.

Wer’e talking about genetial oral sex, (private parts) not tongues, tonsils, teeth, lips, ears, nose, etc;

As for anal sex, that is disgusting, considering that homosexual’s partake in this depraved vile act as well, would we be any better.

God have Mercy !

 

[mumto5]

What I have seen posted by various priests and experts both here and on EWTN:
Oral sex:

• ok, as foreplay but not to climax. Must be followed by intercourse if climax is to take place.
• if a wife doesn’t climax due to intercourse, assuming her husband has climaxed inside her, it would be acceptable if he was to use this method to bring her to her own climax after intercourse has taken place in full.

Anal Sex:
-This would be ok as long as it ends in intercourse the natural way BUT because of the health risks of making that switch, it’s a bad idea.

Contracepting Spouse:

• As long as the Catholic spouse tries to convince their contracepting spouse of the wrongness of birth control from time to time, for the sake of the marriage they may engage in intercourse with their spouse as long as they themselves are not doing any of the contracepting, or consenting to it.

Pretty straight forward really. I believe the original poster is being overly scrupulous.

 

[LittleDeb]

mumto5:

What I have seen posted by various priests and experts both here and on EWTN:
Oral sex:

• ok, as foreplay but not to climax. Must be followed by intercourse if climax is to take place.
• if a wife doesn’t climax due to intercourse, assuming her husband has climaxed inside her, it would be acceptable if he was to use this method to bring her to her own climax after intercourse has taken place in full.

Anal Sex:
-This would be ok as long as it ends in intercourse the natural way BUT because of the health risks of making that switch, it’s a bad idea.

Contracepting Spouse:

• As long as the Catholic spouse tries to convince their contracepting spouse of the wrongness of birth control from time to time, for the sake of the marriage they may engage in intercourse with their spouse as long as they themselves are not doing any of the contracepting, or consenting to it.

Pretty straight forward really. I believe the original poster is being overly scrupulous.

Well said!

I would only change, “wrongness of birth control” to “wrongness of contraception.” Otherwise, great presentation of facts!

 

[Siena]

LittleDeb:

You are bearing this cross in an amazing way. My heart and respect go out to you!

thank you for your kind words- I do not handle this cross so well all of the time…- It’s easier to do that here.

As a piece of unsolicited advice from one of the 25,000 “strangers,” here goes:

When I give talks on NFP and hear from those that “The Church does not belong in our bedroom,” I usually say this: The Church doesn’t want to be in your bedroom. But, The Church has a responsibility to help you have a properly formed conscience when you walk into your bedroom.

*You’re right- however, I have the unfortunate luck in this to have a dh who is well educated, and seems to think he is a theologan. -That 2000 yrs of church teaching and understanding is culturally based. - You know the type. At least he no longer pretends he is a “catholic”.

• Unsolicited :twocents: and maybe you have already said it but I thought I would share anyway.

Bless you and your husband in your journey.

 

[bones_IV]

Karin:

Please correct me if I am wrong…Roman Catholicism does not have an official stance on oral sex. Sex is allowable when a man and woman are married and there is an opportunity for conception. The use of oral sex in foreplay is generally permissible if regular intercourse is followed by it.
***God created sex so it is pleasurable. He also expects us to be responsible in how we use sex. All things that lead up to intercourse should be used with moderation. Too much of a good thing can be bad. Use common sense and remember sex has two purposes: to bring a husband and wife closer and to create human life. ***

---

There is no place in Church teaching that says oral sex is degrading …so to each his own!

Karin, actually the Church regards any type of fornication no matter what it is, as immoral. Sin is still sin. When the Church condemns fornication they condemn ALL fornication and oral sex is definately in the that realm. Sex cannot be used to avoid a pregnancy! To do otherwise would be sacriligious. And is an outrage against nature. Remember that life begins at conception.

You should read Pope Paul VI’s encyclical humanae Vitae

 

[Siena]

***** NOTE: I THINK EVERYONE’S COMMENTS ABOUT ORAL (AND ANAL) “SEX” ARE MENT TO READ ORAL FOREPLAY. (WITH POSSIBLE ORAL CLIMAX FOR A WIFE ONLY)

PLEASE EVERYONE- REFER TO ORAL FOREPLAY SO OTHERS ARE NOT CONFUSED…

 

[Karin]

bones_IV:

Karin, actually the Church regards any type of fornication no matter what it is, as immoral. Sin is still sin. When the Church condemns fornication they condemn ALL fornication and oral sex is definately in the that realm. Sex cannot be used to avoid a pregnancy! To do otherwise would be sacriligious. And is an outrage against nature. Remember that life begins at conception.

You should read Pope Paul VI’s encyclical humanae Vitae

Um how did I state anything different than mumto5*…*
*here and on EWTN:
Oral sex:

• ok, as foreplay but not to climax. Must be followed by intercourse if climax is to take place.
• if a wife doesn’t climax due to intercourse, assuming her husband has climaxed inside her, it would be acceptable if he was to use this method to bring her to her own climax after intercourse has taken place in full.
  Anal Sex:
  -This would be ok as long as it ends in intercourse the natural way BUT because of the health risks of making that switch, it’s a bad idea.? *

I never stated anything about fornication…I thought it was understood that we where speaking about married couples…and in that context oral or anal sex is not wrong as long as it is foreplay with no climax and ends in intercourse.

 

[Magicsilence]

Hi Siena.

If you didnt live in the U>S>A id think you were my mum!!! My dad too, thinks he knows better than the Catholic Church. Gah, its so hard!!!

Self studied know-it-all about everything!

It pains me to hear him reject Truth so flatly,im sure you know the feeling.

 

[Ana]

Karin:

I never stated anything about fornication…I thought it was understood that we where speaking about married couples…and in that context oral or anal sex is not wrong as long as it is foreplay with no climax and ends in intercourse.

It is only understood by those who actually READ the posts.

 

[Karin]

Ana:

It is only understood by those who actually READ the posts.

Ok then…and here I thought it was me

 

[wabrams]

Eireann:

Wer’e talking about genetial oral sex, (private parts) not tongues, tonsils, teeth, lips, ears, nose, etc;

You need to go back and re-read several of the posts that led up to mine top understand the context.

Eireann:

As for anal sex, that is disgusting, considering that homosexual’s partake in this depraved vile act as well, would we be any better.

God have Mercy !

.

I agree.

 

[spotty]

ill say this last thing (maybe) before i go. im moving right now. i wont have much access to a computer later.

choosing a lesser evil is a lie. we must always reject evil. its hard! i know i know! tough decisions to make. you might be scared of what will happen. but yeah! thats the world we live in. we live in a fallen world. if contraception is evil, we must reject it. how do you reject contraception? i would say the minimum rejection required would be not to engage in a act of contraception and to pray for others that their heart might be transformed.
to say that my husband would divorce me and our kids would grow up in a broken home and end up hating God if i do not let him objectify me, himself, and all men and women is a lie. why? first, it will spread. everyone talks like the husbands sin doesnt have anykind of consequences, like hes a better person than he would be if he wasnt allowed to sin.
you know most people who are a slave to satan are too blind to see that theyre a slave. its when theyre challenged and everything starts to fall apart b/c they cant stop some particular sin that they might really see who they are and who they serve.

so as sad as it might be and it happens alot. whole families might have to fall apart in order that they might really come together. completely. as God wants them to love.
suffering is real. we all know this. we have to embrace our cross in order to embrace God.
i mean isnt that almost always how it goes. our hearts have become so hardened by sin that we dont even know that were dead until all the illusions fall apart. and sadly, it usually comes through suffering.
so yeah in the instance which was given by the women whose husband threatened divorce. id say that was a very evil thing for your husband to say and feel. but notice that he feels this. sadly, that is who he has become because of sin. and if your children would hate God because of his laws, they been deceived. we cannot not hate God and blame God when evil happens but sin itself and satan from who it came.
another senario (someone i know senario) might be that the children might see the evil of their fathers actions and want nothing to do with it. and see sin for what it really is from the beginning.
if a husband would leave his wife and children because he cannot not be constantly sexually gratified, then he never really truly loved his family. but thats not who he really is. who God created him to be. his sick. his soul is sick and needs to be healed.

 

[Ana]

spotty:

ill say this last thing (maybe) before i go. im moving right now. i wont have much access to a computer later.

choosing a lesser evil is a lie. we must always reject evil. its hard! i know i know! tough decisions to make. you might be scared of what will happen. but yeah! thats the world we live in. we live in a fallen world. if contraception is evil, we must reject it. how do you reject contraception? i would say the minimum rejection required would be not to engage in a act of contraception and to pray for others that their heart might be transformed.
to say that my husband would divorce me and our kids would grow up in a broken home and end up hating God if i do not let him objectify me, himself, and all men and women is a lie. why? first, it will spread. everyone talks like the husbands sin doesnt have anykind of consequences, like hes a better person than he would be if he wasnt allowed to sin.
you know most people who are a slave to satan are too blind to see that theyre a slave. its when theyre challenged and everything starts to fall apart b/c they cant stop some particular sin that they might really see who they are and who they serve.

so as sad as it might be and it happens alot. whole families might have to fall apart in order that they might really come together. completely. as God wants them to love.
suffering is real. we all know this. we have to embrace our cross in order to embrace God.
i mean isnt that almost always how it goes. our hearts have become so hardened by sin that we dont even know that were dead until all the illusions fall apart. and sadly, it usually comes through suffering.
so yeah in the instance which was given by the women whose husband threatened divorce. id say that was a very evil thing for your husband to say and feel. but notice that he feels this. sadly, that is who he has become because of sin. and if your children would hate God because of his laws, they been deceived. we cannot not hate God and blame God when evil happens but sin itself and satan from who it came.
another senario (someone i know senario) might be that the children might see the evil of their fathers actions and want nothing to do with it. and see sin for what it really is from the beginning.
if a husband would leave his wife and children because he cannot not be constantly sexually gratified, then he never really truly loved his family. but thats not who he really is. who God created him to be. his sick. his soul is sick and needs to be healed.

It is obvious you are your own authority. You have no desire to consider other’s opinions if they are are contrary to your own, even those who are older, those more experienced, those who are ordained, those with degrees, even Catholics with theological degrees specialized to this very topic. You had some sort of private revelation, and even though the Church teaches specifically that private revelations are not bound to anyone but the individual, you freely impute sin to others who with very logical arguments, and much more knowledge and experience in this matter disagree with you. You also dictate manuevers that will have serious consequences in their marriage, while you yourself are free from the repurcussions. You do not once encourage prayer or frequent reception of the Sacraments as tools for this situation, but instead expect everyone to follow your personal revelations, even if they have had their own revelations to the contrary.

Your lack of empathy for both spouses in this situation is indicative of a legalistic view of spirituality.

Thankfully, your arrogance is obvious and hopefully anyone in this type of situation reading this thread will recognize the inexperience, lack of theological knowledge, and ignorance behind your advice.

You have much more studying and learning to do before you are qualified to make these kinds of judgements.

God bless!

 

[maryalene]

spotty:

if a husband would leave his wife and children because he cannot not be constantly sexually gratified, then he never really truly loved his family. but thats not who he really is. who God created him to be. his sick. his soul is sick and needs to be healed.

I don’t agree about the never really loving his family part, but you are absolutely right that his soul needs to be healed. But denying him sex which would inevitably cause him to move out and probably start an adulterous relationship is not going to heal his soul. He needs his wife to continue to gently talk to him and pray for him that he will see the error of his ways. I think for many people, the number one way to turn them off to your message and to make them more adament about contraception would be to deny sex. I think this is one of those situations that is hard to understand unless you’ve been there or know someone who has.

And ultimately, I think that we need to trust in God’s Church. If our priests and bishops are repeatedly telling us that the spouse can consent to the marital embrace while knowing the other spouse is contracepting, then I think we need to accept their authority.

 

[spotty]

and one more thing about oral and anal sex. to just say that homosexuals practice anal and therefore it should would be rejected is not a valid. the same could also be said that they also partake in oral sex but then they also kiss too. so you cant argue like that.
however, as i see it oral sex (i understand ends in intercourse) takes away from the design of God. how? lets say a woman is orally gratifying a man. that feeling of stimulation which the women is applying to the man is supposed to be a shared stimulation always. why? its a life giving stimulation which is supposed to be shared. its a union!
its not i like this way better God to build me up than what you gave the woman. its not a simultaneous sharing of the parts of ourselves which give life. its a take. and its a counterfeit of the true union which God designed that creates life.

granted it might feel sexually gratifying but then so does anal for some. and this next part is kinda dark so read with caution. alot seem opposed to anal stimulation by saying its unhealthy. but hey theyre alot of ways to do it such as orally that isnt gonna hurt the person. and im guessin people would have to say it could be a male or female right.

its wrong because its a counterfiet of the true stimulation of the life giving union which is supposed to occur solely in intercourse.

why? do the math. take a guy what happens if his penis is being stimulating in some way? hes gonna have an orgasm and now you got sperm. what is sperm for? to fertilize the egg. can it get to the egg if some other opening other the vagina? i dont think so

its like a puzzle the pieces fit to stimulate the other in a union which expresses their complete simultaneous giving of each other in the design of Gods plan. you take the unitive stimulation out the mix at any point and you dont have that union. but a counterfiet of it. youre not being gratified with and for your partners sake but for your own.
what if a man were just masterbating while his wife was just kissing him for a while before they actually had intercourse? do you see the the lack of union there. the mockery?
im not saying that everyone is guilty of mortal sin whose done any of this. b/c one must be conscience that it is a grave sin.
but i am saying that it deforms the conscience from what this true sacrament of love really is

 

[Karin]

spotty:

and one more thing about oral and anal sex. to just say that homosexuals practice anal and therefore it should would be rejected is not a valid. the same could also be said that they also partake in oral sex but then they also kiss too. so you cant argue like that.
however, as i see it oral sex (i understand ends in intercourse) takes away from the design of God. how? lets say a woman is orally gratifying a man. that feeling of stimulation which the women is applying to the man is supposed to be a shared stimulation always. why? its a life giving stimulation which is supposed to be shared. its a union!
its not i like this way better God to build me up than what you gave the woman. its not a simultaneous sharing of the parts of ourselves which give life. its a take. and its a counterfeit of the true union which God designed that creates life.

granted it might feel sexually gratifying but then so does anal for some. and this next part is kinda dark so read with caution. alot seem opposed to anal stimulation by saying its unhealthy. but hey theyre alot of ways to do it such as orally that isnt gonna hurt the person. and im guessin people would have to say it could be a male or female right.

its wrong because its a counterfiet of the true stimulation of the life giving union which is supposed to occur solely in intercourse.

why? do the math. take a guy what happens if his penis is being stimulating in some way? hes gonna have an orgasm and now you got sperm. what is sperm for? to fertilize the egg. can it get to the egg if some other opening other the vagina? i dont think so

its like a puzzle the pieces fit to stimulate the other in a union which expresses their complete simultaneous giving of each other in the design of Gods plan. you take the unitive stimulation out the mix at any point and you dont have that union. but a counterfiet of it. youre not being gratified with and for your partners sake but for your own.
what if a man were just masterbating while his wife was just kissing him for a while before they actually had intercourse? do you see the the lack of union there. the mockery?
im not saying that everyone is guilty of mortal sin whose done any of this. b/c one must be conscience that it is a grave sin.
but i am saying that it deforms the conscience from what this true sacrament of love really is

I am so lost …PLEASE provide CCC or other Church teaching that states Anal and Oral Sex (as foreplay between married people) is a sin because everything i have seen says otherwise (it is not a sin if it ends in intercourse)

I can understand that some people are put off by the idea of anal or oral foreplay…but hey to each their own…but to say it is a SIN for EVERYONE no matter what is not right…that is just shoving your views down peoples throats(no pun intended)

 

[Ana]

I don’t think you had any intention of seeking other’s perspectives when you started this thread. You are just looking for an opportunity to hear yourself. This is apparent because you NEVER acknowledge anything any one else has said. You might as well be alone here.