father nicholas gruner

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SongofShepherds said:
And making tons of $$$ doing it!

He does nothing but criticize others, does little or nothing for the Poor.

He certainly fits being a Trad!
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I certainly hope that you are not implying that**“trads”** only criticize, do little or nothing for the poor and make tons of money.

I would think such a harsh, inflammatory and inaccurate statement would be against forum rules,
 
SongofShepherds said:
And making tons of $$$ doing it!

He does nothing but criticize others, does little or nothing for the Poor.

He certainly fits being a Trad!
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Code:
This is a false allegation. Father Gruner builds schools in South America and feeds the poor!!!
 
palmas85 said:
I certainly hope that you are not implying that**“trads”** only criticize, do little or nothing for the poor and make tons of money.

I would think such a harsh, inflammatory and inaccurate statement would be against forum rules,
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Code:
I fully concur.
 
Shoshana said:
Code:
This is a false allegation. Father Gruner builds schools in South America and feeds the poor!!!
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And maybe an orphanage in India, something like that.

With the kind of money his enterprise is making, he better be doing charity work.

“Criticisms”? That got such an uproar? Just pick up a Fatima Crusader (the Gruner magazine per www.fatima.org )to see what criticism is! Too bad I can’t find an image with the Chapel of Fatima tower being knocked off the Church in the Winter 2004 issue.

I would have to be well versed in what he has criticized to enumerate on them, but that seems to be a prime purpose of that magazine!

Fatima Crusader, his magazine has called seminaries “cesspools” if you want to hear critical talk! Other pharseology seems to toe the line on calling the Roman Catholic Church the same such illful things as fundamental protestants say. He or his publcation are critical of Father Fox who should be called “a” true Fatima priest, not as Father Gruner would seem to be known as “The” Fatima priest. He has criticized the clergy of Fatima itself.

One can see many of the things they write at www.fatima.org but not as many things as one can read in the Crusader.

One criticism of Father Fox was talking of the low circulation of Fox’s own magazine, “Immaculate Heart Messenger.”

One typical Fatima Crusader story:

fatima.org/news/newsviews/062504frfox1.asp

“Father Fox’s
Modernist Assault on Fatima”

Typical, of the kind of inflammatory rhetoric one reads.

I would welcome any review of my posting, I dont’ call ALL Traditional Catholics this and this: but one might say, some of this can fit many of them.
 
saint_rafael said:
He has been unjustly treated by the modernists who cannot stand his unwavering support for Our Lady and traditional Catholicism. .
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You missed the point altogether. If you are familiar with Church history, and I assume you are, you will recall that in all apparitions those who are canonized saints all relay that Jesus and the Blessed Mother both tell the individual that they are to obey their superiors in the Church, even if it goes against what they have been told to do by Jesus or Mary. Disobedience to lawful Church authority is not of God.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
You missed the point altogether. If you are familiar with Church history, and I assume you are, you will recall that in all apparitions those who are canonized saints all relay that Jesus and the Blessed Mother both tell the individual that they are to obey their superiors in the Church, even if it goes against what they have been told to do by Jesus or Mary. Disobedience to lawful Church authority is not of God.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
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That is not true.

There is the case of St. Teresa of Avila. Her confessor told her to throw holy water on Jesus when he appeared to her, to see if it was a trick of the devil. Jesus praised her for obeying her confessor. Later, that same confessor told St. Teresa to stop her mental prayer. Jesus appears to her and told her not to obey her confessor.

Jesus praises her obeying her confessor and then rebukes her for following her confessor.

This shows that there is true obedience and false obedience. We obey what is true, but we do not obey what is error and against the faith.
It is completely ludicrous to say that we are supposed to disobey a command of God because an agent of the Church demands it. God is higher than a creature. God and the faith are always first even though we have to disobey the Church when it comes to the different crisis in matters of faith. St. Joan of Arc obeyed God to death at the hands of the English bishops. These political bishops ex-communicated and burned at the stake a saint and messanger of God.

Faith, Hope, and Charity are the three Theological Virtues. Obedience is not one of them.
 
saint_rafael said:
That is not true.

There is the case of St. Teresa of Avila. Her confessor told her to throw holy water on Jesus when he appeared to her, to see if it was a trick of the devil. Jesus praised her for obeying her confessor. Later, that same confessor told St. Teresa to stop her mental prayer. Jesus appears to her and told her not to obey her confessor.

Jesus praises her obeying her confessor and then rebukes her for following her confessor.

This shows that there is true obedience and false obedience. We obey what is true, but we do not obey what is error and against the faith.
It is completely ludicrous to say that we are supposed to disobey a command of God because an agent of the Church demands it. God is higher than a creature. God and the faith are always first even though we have to disobey the Church when it comes to the different crisis in matters of faith. St. Joan of Arc obeyed God to death at the hands of the English bishops. These political bishops ex-communicated and burned at the stake a saint and messanger of God.

Faith, Hope, and Charity are the three Theological Virtues. Obedience is not one of them.
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If you read the lives of St. Padre Pio, and the diary of St Faustina Kawalska you will see exactly what I have just said.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Fr Gruner may have his arrows pointed in the right direction, but he don’t have a bow to send them with.

Fr Gruner for all his wisdom failed the simple test of OBEDEIENCE, even if he were proved to be right at a later date, he simply failed the test of obedience, how can we trust someone like that. ?
 
Just wanted to add that “Fr” Gruner was ordained in the dubious new rite of ordination. His continual disobedience to those he calls his superiors(Vatican,etc) shows that he needs some consistancy establihshed. Either recognize them and obey, or don’t.

Joe
 
I must say, the Fatima Crusader does have some fascinating stories, but it’s hard to make heads or tails between the two sides arguments. If Gruner’s side is starting controversy, digging them up, that would be a major wrong. I certainly do not believe the Vatican has deliberately misguided the faithful on this issue.

The magazine did call Seminaries “cesspools” of immorality, or something to that effect, deviant behavior or something which is certainly too general of a term, even with respected books such as is it “Where have the good men gone” or “Goodby goodmen” or something like that, uncovering unpleasantries that have gone on in the said institutions.

It is somewhat interesting to read their quarrels on the “was Russia consecrated?” issue. Earnest discussion or stirring something up!?
 
SongofShepherds said:
I would welcome any review of my posting, I dont’ call ALL Traditional Catholics this and this: but one might say, some of this can fit many of them.
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I dare say it would fit many progressives and forward thinkers as well, wouldn’t you agree? Or is it only traditionalists that are confined to these narrow realms?
 
SongofShepherds said:
The magazine did call Seminaries “cesspools” of immorality, or something to that effect, deviant behavior or something which is certainly too general of a term, even with respected books such as is it “Where have the good men gone” or “Goodby goodmen” or something like that, uncovering unpleasantries that have gone on in the said institutions.
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I think that this book was written by someone else, and has been quoted by other Catholic groups as to evidence of the sorry state of the US seminaries since Vatican II.
 
SongofShepherds said:
I
The magazine did call Seminaries “cesspools” of immorality, or something to that effect, deviant behavior or something which is certainly too general of a term, even with respected books such as is it “Where have the good men gone” or “Goodby goodmen” or something like that, uncovering unpleasantries that have gone on in the said institutions.

?
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Code:
If one reads the books, it would fit right in with what ‘cesspools’ mean. Fr Gruner was not exaggerrating for sure. ‘Deviant behavior’ would be a very mild term in my book.
 
puzzleannie said:
probably
what is to like about a priest who publicly denies magesterial teaching of the Church and promotes dissent and disobedience among the faithful?

traditional Catholics are devoted to maintaining obedience in practice and orthodoxy in belief, so obviously reject anything else.
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I have read just about everything Fr. Gruner has written about the Third Secret and the background to his dissent . I seek to obey the defined teachings of the Catholic Church and believe that the Holy Spirit guides the Church through time. Given that, I believe in the Church their are Bishops and Priest who are corrupt and we must be on guard. I believe Fr. Gruner is one who is on guard and his warnings should be heeded. Has Russia been converted? Did not the Blessed Mother promise that conversion if Russia is consecrated to her Immaculate Heart? Question no. 1 answer is an emphatic NO! Question 2 Yes she did! The Mother of God cannot lie!! What’s left? THE CONSECRATION OF RUSSIA TO THE IMMACULATE HEART OF MARY!!! You can talk about Fr. Gruner personally all you want, however, look at the core of the problem. Cardinal’s and Bishops high in the Magesterium have LIED!!! You take it from there/
 
As said above, cardinals and bishops have lied. That would include Cardinals Ratzinger and Archbishop Bertone.

Joe
 
SongofShepherds said:
When is this quote from?
"May 11, 2007

VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Despite claims there are still secrets connected to the apparition of Our Lady of Fatima, Pope Benedict XVI and his secretary of state said the entire message has been published and has been interpreted accurately.

The Marian apparitions to three children in Fatima, Portugal, began 90 years ago May 13, and Pope John Paul II ordered the so-called “third secret” of Fatima to be published in 2000.

The two men worked with Pope John Paul to publish the “third secret” and to write an official commentary on it, describing its depiction of a “man dressed in white” shot down amid the rubble of a ruined city as a prophetic vision of the 1981 attempt to assassinate Pope John Paul.

In the new book, Cardinal Bertone said Carmelite Sister Lucia dos Santos, at the time the last surviving visionary, confirmed the Vatican’s interpretation.

The continuing rumors that the Vatican is still hiding something puzzle Cardinal Bertone and, he said, they irritated Sister Lucia, who died in February 2005 at the age of 97."
See Fr. Gruner referenced to in the article as well.
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HAS RUSSION BEEN CONVERTED??? THAT IS THE PROOF I NEED TO SEE AND IT HASN’T HAPPEND YET. SO SOMEONE IS LIEING!!!
 
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