Father Pacwa and pagan worship

[James_2_24]

Is this true?

Thus, Fr. Fox, Father Pacwa and EWTN are guilty of neutralizing the healthy resistance that thousands of Catholics should mount against the outrages now perpetrated at Fatima. They have effectively placed themselves on the side of those who would permit pagan ceremonies in the Catholic sanctuary at the Fatima Shrine. I feel sorry for those who look to Fr. Fox and EWTN to tell them the truth.10

**Taken from a previous thread on the subject

 

[Marie]

Is this true?

Thus, Fr. Fox, Father Pacwa and EWTN are guilty of neutralizing the healthy resistance that thousands of Catholics should mount against the outrages now perpetrated at Fatima. They have effectively placed themselves on the side of those who would permit pagan ceremonies in the Catholic sanctuary at the Fatima Shrine. I feel sorry for those who look to Fr. Fox and EWTN to tell them the truth.10

**Taken from a previous thread on the subject

James,
It is not nice to slander the good Father Mitch Pacwa nor EWTN. I am sorry you do not agree that Fr Gruener is not a representative of Fatima and is in disgrace and excommunicated.

But you are quite wrong either way to slander a priest of the Holy Catholic church who is standing on the right side of Saint Peters Altar and the whole EWTN network because you refuse to accept the mountain of proof that Gruner is not correct, the Fatima shrine has not nor will be invaded by pagans and Father Mitch is a better judge of that than you and I put together.
jmj,
Marie

 

[James_2_24]

Marie –

you have very badly misinterprated my post
I have not slandered Father Pacwa.

If you re-read it you will see those arent’ my words… it says Taken from a previous thread. Rather they are the words of an article that i quoted from.

And again, if you re-read i asked “is this true?” before i even listed the article up there.

Furthermore, I am not judging what is going on over there. I don’t even know the whole story! I don’t know who Father Gruner is or his background! I simply cut and pasted that from the article and asked, “Is this true?” or in otherwords, “What is this all about?”

Please do re-read what i posted

 

[TLM_Altar_Boy]

Marie:

I believe James was quoting a previous poster and asking if it was true or not, not asserting it as his own opinion.

James:

I can assure you that that is *not *true. As Marie stated, there is a mountain of evidence clearing the good fathers and besides, EWTN is one of the best, most orthodox news groups around; if they say it, it’s good enough for me!

 

[Marie]

James_2:24:

Marie –

you have very badly misinterprated my post
I have not slandered Father Pacwa.

If you re-read it you will see those arent’ my words… it says Taken from a previous thread. Rather they are the words of an article that i quoted from.

And again, if you re-read i asked “is this true?” before i even listed the article up there.

Furthermore, I am not judging what is going on over there. I don’t even know the whole story! I don’t know who Father Gruner is or his background! I simply cut and pasted that from the article and asked, “Is this true?” or in otherwords, “What is this all about?”

Please do re-read what i posted

OK! Now I understand. It read like to me you were very unhappy with the answers from the first thread and transfered it to a new thread. I am sorry I did not get what this was about. Mea Culpa. It has happened to me before also so I know how you feel. Now what was your question?

If your asking is it true…No it is not true. Father Gruener who has been put under censure and is not a spokesperson for the church nor Fatima started this rumor. Some poster, and it would be nice to know who it was your quoting said that.

Next time be sure to use the quotes
Name:

and at the end of their message the bracket again with /quote and close bracket. I have failed to do that myself and confused everyone.

 

[Churchmouse]

I’m a Protestant, but I met Mitch Pacwa some years back at Loyola University in Chicago. Although I do not agree with much of what he teaches, you cannot approach him without realizing that he’s a great guy. Very nice individual who seems genuinely humble. I would have a hard time believing that he would do anything malicious.

For what it’s worth, just my .O2 cents

Peace,
CM

 

[Marie]

poster from another thread:

Thus, Fr. Fox, Father Pacwa and EWTN are guilty of neutralizing the healthy resistance that thousands of Catholics should mount against the outrages now perpetrated at Fatima. They have effectively placed themselves on the side of those who would permit pagan ceremonies in the Catholic sanctuary at the Fatima Shrine. I feel sorry for those who look to Fr. Fox and EWTN to tell them the truth.10

As to Father Mitch in anyway neutralizing a healthy resistance concerning Pagan worship of any kind, I would find that hard to believe even if I did not know the source of the rumor (Fr Gruner). Long before this controversy set off by Gruner and his followers, Fr Mitch has been a champion of leading people out of or cautioning them about Paganism. I might suggest that you read one of his many books on the subject, “Catholics and the New Age,”

Hope that helps clarify somewhat.
jmj,
Marie

 

[Faithful_2_Rome]

Father Pacwa is one of God’s intellectual chosen…

Gruener on the other hand…

 

[workinprogress]

I don’t know about intellectual chosen. I cannot judge his character. He is a bit obsessed with Vatican 2 as if no other council existed or deserves as much praise. Nevertheless, EWTN does hold off the far-left, which will be good for future seminary and Catholic school leaders/teachers as well as future clergy. It is unfortunate the attitude that Fr. Gruner and associates use but, if EWTN will not address the shrine desecration issue with a serious show on it, we will have to rely on people like Fr. Gruner and other ultra-traditionalists toi tell us what’s happening… I wish Fr. Pacwa would try to teform the Jesuits.

 

[John_Higgins]

work(name removed by moderator)rogress:

we will have to rely on people like Fr. Gruner and other ultra-traditionalists to tell us what’s happening

And how can we believe them?
work(name removed by moderator)rogress:

… I wish Fr. Pacwa would try to reform the Jesuits.

The Jesuits have a full range of theological outlooks. They had Fr. Hardon, they have Fr. Pacwa, Fr. Fessio, Cardinal Dulles and the like. I think the numbers of “liberals” vs. “conservatives” reflects the ratio in Catholics of the United States. (Though certainly not the ratio on this board.)

John

 

[workinprogress]

You’re right, how can we trust them on anything? If this is a subject of concern to those who keep up on Catholic happenings in the world, why are traditionalists the only ones bringing it up? I hear idolatry has also been happening at a Marian Shrine in India? Maybe, instead of questioning Fr. Gruner’s obedience as an excuse not to look into it (and other concerns traditionalists have) objectively, some people should look into it themselves. Why is it not on “World Over”? I would honestly like to hear an authentic coverage from another viewpoint on this stuff. Why are there shows on EWTN saying how Russian Catholics are going back to Church and most all is well when drugs, violent crime, porn on regular tv, and child porn is rampant? It makes you wonder how anyone can say that the Consecration of Russia to Mary’s Immaculate Heart (and the subsequent Triumph of her Immaculate Heart) was actually accomplished when you hear about that? A secular political and conservative website said that a great many Russians consider themselves Bolsheviks.

Why are Catholic clergy participating in non-Catholic church services when it is against fundamental Church teaching? Are the ends of ecumenism worth means that might scandalize the faithful?

Theological outlooks? Like Call to Action’s outlooks? They are scheduled to meet at a Jesuit college in my city. Who would host them. I have heard of pro-abortion speakers at Jesuit colleges. Malachi Martin wrote a book about them. Despite him being a traditionalist of questionable obedience to Rome, why the Jesuits, in particular, as the subject of his negative coverage of an order? They are not the only ones, but they certainly have problems.

 

[jimmy]

I like father Pacwa. It seems like he knows his stuff and he seems pretty genuine.

 

[maggiec]

Is this true?

Thus, Fr. Fox, Father Pacwa and EWTN are guilty of neutralizing the healthy resistance that thousands of Catholics should mount against the outrages now perpetrated at Fatima. They have effectively placed themselves on the side of those who would permit pagan ceremonies in the Catholic sanctuary at the Fatima Shrine. I feel sorry for those who look to Fr. Fox and EWTN to tell them the truth.10

**Taken from a previous thread on the subject

In the words of my favorite priest “whats up with that”?
I really don’t know what you are referring to, could you enlighten me?
maggiec

 

[workinprogress]

I kind of see EWTN as the Rush Limbaugh of all things coming from the Vatican–even the judgments. You would think the hierarchy could do no wrong. I think a little flexibility is in order there and they would have the charity to do it.

Extreme traditionalists like the SSPX remind me of Michael Savage. They both support their more favored institution and philosophical affiliation, but they don’t mind ranting about what their leaders, who more than not, hold the same philosophies when they do, when they do something really compromising or just plain wrong. Both of the two have members I think might have some emotional imbalance in proportion to charity because of changes in the '60s or something deeper psychologically, but their grief is more deserving of sympathy than those from angry feminists and others on the far left who are also lacking in charity in that at least the ultra-conservatives are preserving what definitely worked as proven by history.