Father Robert Barron

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SyroMalankara said:
LOL this made me laugh. Servant of God Archbishop Fulton Sheen, as great as he was, would DENY that comment to anyone’s face! The Catholic Faith Incarnate is none other than JESUS the Messiah!

I think Fr. Barron knows that there will be some who choose hell, but he is emphasizing HOPE and JOY, and HOPE and JOY demands that we look for that seedling of God’s light even in the most rotten behaved men. That once encountered by that Divine Love, even the most hardened will be penetrated and choose that Love!

It’s a very mystical, perhaps historically more Eastern perspective.
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Amen!

To wish anyone hell is to bring that same judgement upon one self.

There is nothing wrong to hope that all repent and come to Christ…
 
AbideWithMe said:
Umm, well…How about being motivated to change one’s life because we are “dearly beloved children” who want to be like our Heavenly Father, more so than trying to change because of the motivation of fear of punishment? What are we “saved” for, if not to become like Christ? Was He obedient because He feared Hell?
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I love this passage:

"Fear is not in love: but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath pain. And he that feareth, is not perfected in love]/b. " - 1 John 4:18
 
Mark121359 said:
I don’t know a whole lot about Fr. Dwight Longenecker. But what he says here about the error of universalism is spot on. I get the sense that a lot of Catholics on here believe in at least, to use Fr. Longenecker’s words, “semi-universalism.” And as he points out in the bolded below, this is extremely dangerous.

Peace, Mark
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While very interesting and informative, this is not what Father Barron has said.

Here are his actual words, if anyone is interested:

youtube.com/watch?v=dmsa0sg4Od4
 
anixx said:
I desire that a giraffe appear in my front yard. I can never hope that, it’s just that, a desire. But if they were to call me from the Zoo and say they’ll bring one later in the afternoon, then I may have hope. I suggest you look into the three theological virtues, for hope is a virtue, not a whim.

As much as I appreciate Mother Angelica, for she was a wise and saintly woman, doesn’t change the fact that she is just a nun (nuns have no authority in the Church) and was expressing an opinion, though largely accepted, it isn’t a doctrine of the Church. For this we may hope that we get that chance, but it’s not a guarantee. Look into the prophecies from Fatima, and into the appearance of Our Lady of Akita. They both are recognized by the Church, but aren’t doctrine and they don’t belong to the Deposit of Faith. I think you’ll find them illuminating. God bless!
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And yet she reaches millions of people. Would you criticize her? I fail to see the difference between Mother Angelica expressing an opinion and Father Barron expressing an opinion that is not in conflict with the deposit of faith.

I am quite familiar with the prophesies you cite. What’s your point? God bless!

By the way - you might want to actually read or watch Father Barron’s actual words on this subject that I posted above - you might also find that illuminating.
 
anixx said:
A clarification of semantics is here:

I was referring to the double predestination: which states that God predestines some to Heaven, others to Hell, without taking into consideration your own will. Doesn’t matter what you do in life you end up where God wants you to end. Doesn’t matter your the most Holy man on the planet, if God predestined you to Hell, you’re going to Hell. And the other, you can do all the wrong, evil, immoral things you want, if God predestined you to heaven, you get to Heaven. It is the removal of free will of humans and of Justice of God.
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You misunderstand double predestination entirely. No one believes this kind of double predestination. Predestination includes the means as well as the end. If God predestines someone to heaven, He will ensure that they respond to His grace by a faith that works in love. If a person is reprobate, they will reject God’s grace and die in sin. That is true of Calvin as much as of Aquinas (Aquinas doesn’t believe in double predestination, just to be clear, though the differences between him and Calvin are pretty nuanced).

Fr. Barron’s view has nothing to do with double predestination, since he doesn’t think it’s certain that everyone will be saved. There are people who are basically Calvinist universalists, but Fr. Barron isn’t one of them.

Edwin
 
Father Robert Barron… Not my cuppa tea.
Mother Angelica:thumbsup:
Archbishop Fulton Sheen…just brilliant!👍
 
anixx said:
And he has stated many times, outside of the documentary, that one of his heroes is Hans Urs von Balthasar, a pseudo-theologian, in my opinion.
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I think you are confusing Von Balthasar with Hans Kung. Von Balthasar was going to be made a cardinal by John Paul II shortly before Von B died. He is celebrated as one of the great 20th century theologians of the Catholic Church.
 
Peter_Plato said:
I think you are confusing Von Balthasar with Hans Kung. Von Balthasar was going to be made a cardinal by John Paul II shortly before Von B died. He is celebrated as one of the great 20th century theologians of the Catholic Church.
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Hans Urs von Balthasar is also a favourite of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVl. I trust Papa Benedict’s judgement on sound Catholic theology.
 
You want to know something. I am a man of average intelligence. I’m not a Saint, thought I try to act like one as much as I can. I’m a sinner, and I beg God’s mercy in the name of his Son every morning and every night, and many times in between. I’d like to clarify a few things, straight from the mouth of an almost-idiot like me.
  1. Father Barron seems to believe in hell from what i’ve heard him say. He has hope that all are saved. Hope is not a belief that all will accept God’s mercy and love.
  2. If you take a passage of scripture and remove it from the bible as a whole - and read it on its own, you can apply it to pretty much anything, and make its meaning almost anything (though I will attempt to do that below).
And now my point:

**If you look at the message of the bible as a whole, at the need for God to become incarnate as Jesus Christ, to die for us, to adsorb mankind’s fallen nature (past and future), to proclaim God’s unending MERCY is it not reasonable to believe that anyone who wishes to repent and believe, even during the microseconds of the final breath on this Earth, or the moments just after (depending on the mystery of God’s mercy) could be saved - How can any human claim to say that most are damned?
**
Are the sins of homosexuals or rapists or murderers worse than my sins in God’s eyes? He is perfect love and wisdom and justice. My sins should seem like mountains to him should they not? Ah, but his mercy…

How can I say that God could not forgive them? I hope he forgives me.

Remember when the Apostles asked Jesus how a rich man could be saved considering most don’t give up all of their possessions and serve humankind from the meekest position and to the fullest of their abilities?

Do you remember our Lord’s answer?

Jesus looked at them and said, "With men this is impossible, but with God everything is possible."

How can any of us put a limit on God’s Mercy and Love?

In truth he should have destroyed this planet or us the minute we appeared? Can any one of you argue that?

Outside of Mary, what other completely-human being is/was really worth saving in the entire human history compared to majesty and perfection of God?

Are we all not profane before him? Who could possibly be exempt.

Even though I beg his forgiveness daily, I feel like the first thing I would say to our Lord on the day of my death if God willing I was sent to be with him would be: “My Lord, My God, I am not worthy and I have failed you”.

You see what I mean?

Outside of God’s mercy, not a single one of us but Mary would be saved.

We can only hope on God’s infinite mercy. If we don’t then we are all doomed are we not? And by all I mean all.

Our Lord spoke of the reality of hell, and (the way I see it) how we are all heading there - taking the wide path and gate - but, there is salvation from that path - God’s mercy through his son.

Now, whether we choose to accept that love and salvation, that’s up to us.

In conclusion, can we hope all are saved? OF COURSE WE CAN! THIS IS GOD, PEOPLE. His act of love and sacrifice on the cross was ENOUGH to SAVE US ALL.

However i’m sure there are some who turn away from God’s love at the end.

I think this is what Father Barron is saying.

Don’t put limits on God’s mercy. And don’t judge your fellow man and doom him to hell - those who want hell don’t need to be judged - they’ve brought it on themselves.
 
i am probably less educated than you, and i find his words on hell to be dangerous. he not only hopes that hell is empty, he seems to believe it is. it’s all very confusing from what i learned in rcia and what is in the ccc. it makes me wonder why i bothered to become catholic.:confused:

what is even more distressing, is the book by dr. ralph martin, ‘will many be saved’, and fr. barons commentary on it, and dr. martin’s replies to the commentary. it is very difficult for someone as myself to read these arguments and feel confident in the churches teachings.
 
bisco said:
i am probably less educated than you, and i fihnd his words on hell to be dangerous. he not only hopes that hell is empty, he seems to believe it is. it’s all very confusing from what i learned in rcia and what is in the ccc. it makes me wonder why i bothered to become catholic.:confused:
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Your faith is shattered by the opinions of one man who is not the pope?

C’mon. That’s not how Catholicism works. 😉

We can all hope that hell is empty, but the fall of the angels, at the very least, seems to suggest that it is not. Unfortunately, I suspect that many more are or will be there in the end.
 
i wouldn’t say shattered, and my faith in Jesus has never been stronger. but i find it difficult to understand the bickering and opposing theories.
 
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