Father Stanley Rother

[Tommy999]

Hello all,
In Oklahoma, Father Stanley Rother (martyr for the Catholic faith) has gotten a lot of attention lately on Oklahoma Catholic radio and justifiably so. By all accounts he was a holy and good man of God who paid the ultimate price for his faith. He is set to be beatified in September.

ncregister.com/daily-news/father-stanley-rother-first-us-born-martyr-will-be-beatified-in-september

Question:
Please help clarify something for me.

He was obviously a good and holy man of God who is presumably already in God’s presence in heaven.

Why would the local Catholics of Oklahoma City be having masses for him now leading up to his beatification? Don’t Catholics usually pray for people who are presumed to be in Purgatory? I wouldn’t think this would apply to Father Rother, so I am bit confused, although I am happy he is being beatified.

Follow up question: Does the actual beatification process formally recognize Father Rother’s accomplishments (sort of like like a Catholic Hall of Fame induction ceremony) or does it signify more than that? In other words, is it official acknowledgement that he is now in heaven and has left Purgatory, if he even went there in the first place?

Any and all clarifications would be appreciated. Thanks. :tiphat:

 

[DeniseNY]

I don’t know if I fully understand the question, but the Diocese of Youngstown, OH has opened the cause for the beatification of Rhoda Wise (see my signature) and masses are held for her in Canton, OH.

Again, maybe I don’t understand the question.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The Masses in these cases likely have a goal of praying that the person (Fr. Rother or Rhoda Wise) whose cause is the subject of the Mass advances to sainthood. Fr. Rother for example might need to have a miracle attributed to his intercession in order to make it all the way to canonization, or the Pope might decide to dispense with the miracle requirement in view of his martyrdom. People pray that God will grant their request to let Fr. Rother fulfill the necessary conditions (including either the miracle if required, or obtaining the dispensation needed) to make it all the way to full sainthood.

I had to correct this again. When a person is “blessed” it is a statement by the Pope that it is “worthy of belief” that the person is saved and in Heaven. Canonization is apparently the more definite declaration by the Pope that the person is certainly in Heaven. Although it is “worthy of belief” that Fr. Rother is already in Heaven, it is not certain until he is canonized, so people could certainly pray for his soul just in case he was somehow still in Purgatory at this point.

You can also get a special indult (permission granted by the Holy See) to celebrate Mass in honor of a particular beatified person, although this may not be done without checking with the Holy See and getting permission. The permission if any is typically only granted to the person’s home diocese or to specific locations associated with him, so if this Mass is in Fr. Rother’s home diocese then it is likely to honor him as well as ask God that he be fully canonized.

 

[NeedImprovement]

St.Padre Pio prayed that his great grandfather would have a holy death some 100 years after the actual death of his great grandfather.

From Close Encounters of a Special Kind With Padre Pio

One day Padre Pio told his doctor: “I’m praying for the good death of my great great grandfather.” “But he died more than one hundred years ago!” “Remember that for God there is no past and no future, and everything is present. So God made use at that time of the prayers I’m saying now.”

---

The Masses in these cases likely have a goal of praying that the person (Fr. Rother or Rhoda Wise) whose cause is the subject of the Mass advances to sainthood. Fr. Rother for example might need to have a miracle attributed to his intercession in order to make it all the way to canonization, . . .

It can also happen that more than one miracle was worked. I was told by a reliable source in a particular case of one of our more recently canonized Saints up here, that one person who had received a miracle from that Saint’s intercession (at the time when he had still only been beatified) did not wish to be a public witness to the miracle they had received - even if it slowed the canonization process . . .worried perhaps about their own privacy.

After not too long a time, another miracle was worked (through that Blessed’s intercession) and another person came forward to be a public witness of their miraculous cure.

Yet another good reason to pray until canonization, it would seem. .

 

[Tis_Bearself]

St.Padre Pio prayed that his great grandfather would have a holy death some 100 years after the actual death of his great grandfather.

From Close Encounters of a Special Kind With Padre Pio

That is a good point. Since I read that some months ago I have been busily praying for all kinds of people who died in the past and who I probably didn’t pray for as much as I should have, because I was stupid then or something, and I always ask God to please backdate the prayers just like for Padre Pio’s great grandfather. So the Masses said now could actually be helping with the past process if God willed it so.

 

[Tommy999]

Thank you very much for your insights, Tis Bearself and NeedImprovement.

The following concept that you mentioned is a little foreign to me:
“*Remember that for God there is no past and no future, and everything is present. So God made use at that time of the prayers I’m saying now.” *
I recall the scripture in II Peter 3:8 that says:
'But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day’.. Is this verse the source of the teaching that “everything is present”?

I am not doubting what you are saying, just wanting to verify the context of where it originated in Holy Scripture or in Catholic teaching.

In this same vein, I have prayed recently for family and friends who have passed away in my lifetime for the repose of their souls as they come to mind when I am in prayer, and I have mixed feelings for having done it.

In one sense, I am glad I prayed for them because if there is a Purgatory and “if” they are in it, I would like my prayers to be efficacious on their behalf.

On the other hand, part of me considers it to be doubting their holiness to think that I still needed to pray for them after all these years because in some cases I believe them to have been much holier in their lifetimes than I am in mine. That’s why I prefaced my prayer to God by saying, “if they are presently in Purgatory”, which made me feel like I was doubting the state of their soul, which I am not. It was mainly one of those “just in case” kind of prayers, if that makes any sense,

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Thank you very much for your insights, Tis Bearself and NeedImprovement.

The following concept that you mentioned is a little foreign to me:
“*Remember that for God there is no past and no future, and everything is present. So God made use at that time of the prayers I’m saying now.” *
I recall the scripture in II Peter 3:8 that says:
'But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day’.. Is this verse the source of the teaching that “everything is present”?

I am not doubting what you are saying, just wanting to verify the context of where it originated in Holy Scripture or in Catholic teaching.

The verse you quoted is one that could apply. In addition, I would note the following:

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, on your own intelligence do not rely - Proverbs 3:5

Is anything too marvelous for the Lord to do? - beginning of Genesis 18:14 where God is giving Sarah a son

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways—oracle of the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, my thoughts higher than your thoughts. - Isaiah 55:8-9

Bottom line is if God wished to apply our prayers now at a different point in time, He has the power to do so and we trust that He has the power to do that and anything else He wishes with time. Time is a physical construct that man has created in order to organize his earthly activities. God isn’t bound by it.

In this same vein, I have prayed recently for family and friends who have passed away in my lifetime for the repose of their souls as they come to mind when I am in prayer, and I have mixed feelings for having done it.

In one sense, I am glad I prayed for them because if there is a Purgatory and “if” they are in it, I would like my prayers to be efficacious on their behalf.

On the other hand, part of me considers it to be doubting their holiness to think that I still needed to pray for them after all these years because in some cases I believe them to have been much holier in their lifetimes than I am in mine. That’s why I prefaced my prayer to God by saying, “if they are presently in Purgatory”, which made me feel like I was doubting the state of their soul, which I am not. it was mainly one of those “just in case” kind of prayers, if that makes any sense,

That’s fine. I have done the same for people like my parents who I am pretty sure are already in Heaven. I have tried to get plenary indulgences for them both, had the series of Gregorian Masses said for them both, and otherwise prayed and asked others to pray for the repose of their souls. They were both good people and I would be surprised if they hadn’t been in Heaven now for quite some time. But I understand also that if they don’t need the prayers, the Lord will use them for another person in Purgatory who has no one to pray for them. So I always say “and if (person I am praying for) doesn’t need these prayers, would you, God, please just use them to help another person (or sometimes I say “another mother, father, grandfather, someone in our extended family” etc.) in Purgatory who needs the help.” No prayer is ever wasted.

 

[Tommy999]

The verse you quoted is one that could apply. In addition, I would note the following:

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, on your own intelligence do not rely - Proverbs 3:5

Is anything too marvelous for the Lord to do? - beginning of Genesis 18:14 where God is giving Sarah a son

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways—oracle of the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, my thoughts higher than your thoughts. - Isaiah 55:8-9

Bottom line is if God wished to apply our prayers now at a different point in time, He has the power to do so and we trust that He has the power to do that and anything else He wishes with time. Time is a physical construct that man has created in order to organize his earthly activities. God isn’t bound by it.

That’s fine. I have done the same for people like my parents who I am pretty sure are already in Heaven. I have tried to get plenary indulgences for them both, had the series of Gregorian Masses said for them both, and otherwise prayed and asked others to pray for the repose of their souls. They were both good people and I would be surprised if they hadn’t been in Heaven now for quite some time. But I understand also that if they don’t need the prayers, the Lord will use them for another person in Purgatory who has no one to pray for them. So I always say “and if (person I am praying for) doesn’t need these prayers, would you, God, please just use them to help another person (or sometimes I say “another mother, father, grandfather, someone in our extended family” etc.) in Purgatory who needs the help.” No prayer is ever wasted.

Thank you very much for this, Tis Bearself. That puts things in better perspective for me, and helps put the things I’ve been hearing on Catholic radio in my area related to Father Stanley Rother more in context.

 

[pablope]

Hello all,
In Oklahoma, Father Stanley Rother (martyr for the Catholic faith) has gotten a lot of attention lately on Oklahoma Catholic radio and justifiably so. By all accounts he was a holy and good man of God who paid the ultimate price for his faith. He is set to be beatified in September.

ncregister.com/daily-news/father-stanley-rother-first-us-born-martyr-will-be-beatified-in-september

Question:
Please help clarify something for me.

He was obviously a good and holy man of God who is presumably already in God’s presence in heaven.

Why would the local Catholics of Oklahoma City be having masses for him now leading up to his beatification? Don’t Catholics usually pray for people who are presumed to be in Purgatory? I wouldn’t think this would apply to Father Rother, so I am bit confused, although I am happy he is being beatified.

Any and all clarifications would be appreciated. Thanks. :tiphat:

Hi, Tommy,

This is an article on the beatification process…ewtn.com/johnpaul2/cause/process.asp

I think the masses offered are for the advancement of the cause of Sainthood of Fr. Rother…not necessarily for him to go to heaven, as for sure he is already in heaven because of his martyrdom.

Also, Catholic communities, dioceses, congregations, take pride in having someone declared a saint who from the same town, or state or city. Once fully declared a Saint, the whole Church can venerate the canonized saint, and have a parish named after him, etc.

Follow up question: Does the actual beatification process formally recognize Father Rother’s accomplishments (sort of like like a Catholic Hall of Fame induction ceremony) or does it signify more than that? In other words, is it official acknowledgement that he is now in heaven and has left Purgatory, if he even went there in the first place?

catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/the-process-of-becoming-a-saint.html

The next step is beatification. A martyr may be beatified and declared “Blessed” by virtue of martyrdom itself. Otherwise, the candidate must be credited with a miracle. In verifying the miracle, the Church looks at whether God truly performed a miracle and whether the miracle was in response to the intercession of the candidate saint. Once beatified, the candidate saint may be venerated but with restriction to a city, diocese, region, or religious family. Accordingly, the Pope would authorize a special prayer, Mass, or proper Divine Office honoring the Blessed.

After beatification, another miracle is needed for canonization and the formal declaration of sainthood.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

As said above, the Pope can grant a dispensation for skipping the miracle, if he wants to.

Also, while I agree (and posted above also) that the Masses are likely to advance the cause of Fr. Rother’s sainthood, the Church will not make the statement for certain that a person is definitely in Heaven until they are canonized. Beatification (being named “Blessed Fr. Rother”) only means it is “worthy of belief” that they are there. Most people would believe that the priest is already in heaven, and the Church says it’s allowed for people to believe that. But when canonized then it is an official statement by the Church that he is certainly in Heaven. So it’s a little degree of difference.